Brady Second Circuit Judges: Parker, Katzmann, Chin

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

With all due respect, if you're hoping for a conclusion to this whole thing within the next 8 weeks, I'd advise not holding your breath.
Except they're not affirming Brady's innocence. They're simply saying Goodell used an improper arbitrator (himself) and other miscellaneous rules about violating the Law of Shop.

Kraft has no leverage. What he needs is an enormous groundswell of support from either the general public or the rest of ownership. Nothing like that is even remotely on the horizon. Sure, we've gotten a couple articles of support from King and Stradley this past week, which registered nary a blip on the national stage.

But this would affirm that Brady was denied due process and, coupled with the lack of any real proof of wrongdoing, will be a PR disaster for the league. This can easily (and, quite frankly, fairly) be spun into a "you just unsuccessfully tried to railroad one of the greatest players in the game for political purposes" story that history will not look too kindly upon. Heads need to roll over this!

I fully realize that 8 weeks for a decision is improbable but hardly impossible.

 

[XLIX]

But this would affirm that Brady was denied due process and, coupled with the lack of any real proof of wrongdoing, will be a PR disaster for the league. This can easily (and, quite frankly, fairly) be spun into a "you just unsuccessfully tried to railroad one of the greatest players in the game for political purposes" story that history will not look too kindly upon. Heads need to roll over this!

I fully realize that 8 weeks for a decision is improbable but hardly impossible.

My friend, if you think the league punishing the patriots unfairly is going to somehow evolve into some sort of public relations disaster for the league, then you just haven't been paying attention. Sad fact of the matter is most of the rest of football fandom either thinks that they are guilty, sees this as fair payment for spy gate, or just hate the patriots so much that they don't care about fairness.

None of that is going to change when Brady wins in court sometime later on this summer.

 

[archstanton543]

That is every court's job. Just not a prime focus of this one's.

It's not. It's really not.

 

[neuronet]

But this would affirm that Brady was denied due process and, coupled with the lack of any real proof of wrongdoing, will be a PR disaster for the league. This can easily (and, quite frankly, fairly) be spun into a "you just unsuccessfully tried to railroad one of the greatest players in the game for political purposes" story that history will not look too kindly upon. Heads need to roll over this!

So young and naive and optimistic. If this hasn't happened by now, it ain't ever gonna happen.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

My friend, if you think the league punishing the patriots unfairly is going to somehow evolve into some sort of public relations disaster for the league, then you just haven't been paying attention. Sad fact of the matter is most of the rest of football fandom either thinks that they are guilty, sees this as fair payment for spy gate, or just hate the patriots so much that they don't care about fairness.

None of that is going to change when Brady wins in court sometime later on this summer.

I'm skeptical but not cynical about all the other fan bases in the league. Sure, we know the opinions of ESPN, late night comedians, South Park, and the handful of cranky morons that troll sports sites. The rest are just ordinary folks uninformed/misinformed about the details of this scandal. I have to believe that normal people aren't going to approve of false accusations/defamation simply because the victim doesn't play for the team they follow. I could be wrong, but I can't believe that anyone other than mentally/spiritually sick people would be okay with the league's misconduct once it has been brought to light.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

So young and naive and optimistic. If this hasn't happened by now, it ain't ever gonna happen.

Let me keep a happy thought and allow me to believe in things like justice and the tooth fairy.

 

[trevrox]

Brady will be 2-0 against the NFL.

 

[RayClay]

Why do we need to mock Chinese names?



Ditto.

I'd just like to say, it has nothing to do with this esteemed list of judges when I say that Scalia had more Chins than a Chinese phone book.

R.I.P.

 

[XLIX]

I'm skeptical but not cynical about all the other fan bases in the league. Sure, we know the opinions of ESPN, late night comedians, South Park, and the handful of cranky morons that troll sports sites. The rest are just ordinary folks uninformed/misinformed about the details of this scandal. I have to believe that normal people aren't going to approve of false accusations/defamation simply because the victim doesn't play for the team they follow. I could be wrong, but I can't believe that anyone other than mentally/spiritually sick people would be okay with the league's misconduct once it has been brought to light.

What exactly is it that you anticipate being brought to light that hasn't already? It has been proven that the league lied, and few people (outside Patriots fandom) cared. Goodell got caught telling bald faced lies, no one cared. Scientists (and 5th graders) from coast to coast have proven the Ideal Gas Law impacts the balls by the same amounts they were deflated that night, and there is no national outrage. Berman ripped the NFL a new one and it didn't impact public opinion in any noticeable way.

There's nothing left to reveal to significantly impact public sentiment. Even when Brady wins the appeal, it isn't like any new information will be coming to light regarding his innocence, just a panel of 3 judges saying the league violated the CBA.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

My friend, if you think the league punishing the patriots unfairly is going to somehow evolve into some sort of public relations disaster for the league, then you just haven't been paying attention. Sad fact of the matter is most of the rest of football fandom either thinks that they are guilty, sees this as fair payment for spy gate, or just hate the patriots so much that they don't care about fairness.

None of that is going to change when Brady wins in court sometime later on this summer.

Agreed except you leave out another major factor, main stream media. The NFL is a peerless ratings machine juggernaut. Every OTA major broadcast network carries football and virtually every one of these networks most watched programs are NFL football. And for the most expensive, most valuable, most watched cable based station, ESPN, it is even more dramatically so.
Bosses at these networks are going to bash their "partner" that keeps their overall ratings much higher(aka how they keep their jobs)? Except for that rare established program that maintains some independence (60 Minutes for example though 'The Insider' suggests they still very much can be censored by the bosses) a boss doesn't even have to say 'don't bash the NFL too much'. The culture will make it axiomatic.
Add to that storyline/sensation based journalism along with their rigid politics filter, and what you have is an enabler of the NFL's bullsh!t machine. Couple that with this being sports -- not taken too seriously to begin with -- and a majority of the general public who generally eat up just the first two sentences media puts out (the storyline!) and disregards the meat of a story, and chances of the truth to be reiterated and expanded on to a glib general public is almost nil. Which means the chances of the NFL ever having to pay the PR piper for their lies and railroading of TB/the Patriots is also almost nil.
Just is what it is....

 

[1960Pats]

I just happened to have WEEI on yesterday afternoon and heard a caller from Virginia (a Redskins fan since the 70's) comment about the Pats. He said that he and other fans he knows think they were screwed and respect their on-field accomplishments. I'm sure there are plenty of those type of fans around the world. You'd have to be blind to believe the crap being spewed by the NYJFL and BSPN.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It's not. It's really not.

You may want to review what a Federal Judge comitts to when sworn in.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

What exactly is it that you anticipate being brought to light that hasn't already? It has been proven that the league lied, and few people (outside Patriots fandom) cared. Goodell got caught telling bald faced lies, no one cared. Scientists (and 5th graders) from coast to coast have proven the Ideal Gas Law impacts the balls by the same amounts they were deflated that night, and there is no national outrage. Berman ripped the NFL a new one and it didn't impact public opinion in any noticeable way.

There's nothing left to reveal to significantly impact public sentiment. Even when Brady wins the appeal, it isn't like any new information will be coming to light regarding his innocence, just a panel of 3 judges saying the league violated the CBA.

And how much of this information is being made available to the general public? ESPN certainly isn't telling them. They just spin the narrative that Brady got off on a "technicality" (I just love it when due process is dismissed as a "technicality') and parade out their usual cast of idiots spouting tripe like "the Patriots weren't punish enough for 'other stuff' they weren't caught doing."

I suspect that the Patriots have been somewhat restrained in defending themselves in the press since there's litigation pending. Once the appeal part is over and done, they can (and should) get noisy and aggressive.

 

[AGCSBill]

Given the consensus of many is the NFL will most likely crash and burn with this appeal, what are the odds the NFL simply accepts the decision, upholding Berman, and simply says, "we have to move on."?

 

[XLIX]

And how much of this information is being made available to the general public?

All of it. The public just doesn't care.

I suspect that the Patriots have been somewhat restrained in defending themselves in the press since there's litigation pending. Once the appeal part is over and done, they can (and should) get noisy and aggressive.

The time to be noisy and aggressive has come and gone. Kraft rolled over with a whimper.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Given the consensus of many is the NFL will most likely crash and burn with this appeal, what are the odds the NFL simply accepts the decision, upholding Berman, and simply says, "we have to move on."?

I'm not sure why people are saying that. The other 3 major sports in this country have a much more collaborative, reasonable approaches to player discipline that are more successful in their adoption, process and acceptance.

re: Move on? - That is a great question. If we are to believe the rumors that Goody will have a much less role in player discipline than it seems to me it's already started. If they lose for them to take it to SCOTUS runs counter to that rumor.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Given the consensus of many is the NFL will most likely crash and burn with this appeal, what are the odds the NFL simply accepts the decision, upholding Berman, and simply says, "we have to move on."?

Ii think that's the likely outcome. I don't think the owners will let Goodell push this any farther than CA2.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

These Judges don't do that. That's the sole job of the Supreme Court. That's one level above them.

All federal judges from trial court on up can and do interpret the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights (and federal statutes and state constitutions and state statutes and...). But it's only SCOTUS that's the final word (though state supreme courts are the final word on interpretation of state constitutions and statutes).

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Disagree. Denying cert after CA2 unanimously affirms Berman's decision accomplishes the same thing. I don't think the SCOTUS needs to formal issue a decision telling Roger, "Sorry, we're not overturning all that the 'law of the shop' precedent for you."

No, it doesn't. SCOTUS denying cert lets the lower court decision stand but does not create any nationwide rule or precedent.

If CA2 upholds Berman and SCOTUS denies cert, only courts in the Second Circuit are bound by the precedent. Courts elsewhere in the country are free to ignore it. By contrast, if SCOTUS took the case and upheld CA2 upholding Berman all courts in the country would have to follow that precedent.

 

[Huckleberry1]

No, it doesn't. SCOTUS denying cert lets the lower court decision stand but does not create any nationwide rule or precedent.

If CA2 upholds Berman and SCOTUS denies cert, only courts in the Second Circuit are bound by the precedent. Courts elsewhere in the country are free to ignore it. By contrast, if SCOTUS took the case and upheld CA2 upholding Berman all courts in the country would have to follow that precedent.

Great information, as always. Appreciate it.