Brady Second Circuit Judges: Parker, Katzmann, Chin

[TomPatriot]

Maybe the Adrian Peterson case might cause such a split but I kind of doubt it.

I was being somewhat facetious with the death row example.

I know. I should have realized that.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but before the NFL can go to SCOTUS, they'd have to ask for an en banc ruling by all 13 (?) of the 2nd Circuit judges..

No.

Motions for rehearings are usually exercises in futility and not warmly received by the court. It is an available option.

 

[XLIX]

That crystal ball you got there seems to work wonders.


What's the powerball numbers for this weekend?

I'd love to be proven wrong, but the league has been out to screw the Patriots over at every turn. Given that we still have the same ******* commissioner in charge and nothing has changed, there is no reason to believe he is all of a sudden going to start acting in good faith.

There is absolutely zero chance whatsoever this is all wrapped up by Draft Day (barring a settlement). So even though you're wrong when you think there's a chance getting this wrapped up increases the chances of getting the picks back, it doesn't even matter.

 

[Huckleberry1]

And I don't agree with you here.

Yes, the case is about due process, but that does not mean the other sanctions against the team aren't linked with this appeal, that's foolish to say.

No, if the appeal is thrown out, the Pats won't be getting their picks back as a result, that's obvious, but it highlights that the NFL has nothing to show for anything besides stolen picks and money for...absolutely nothing. They would have now lost twice and look absurd. The critics are coming around, I.E.: Peter King, and more will come out blasting them when the appeal is over.

The noise then grows louder and it would give Kraft the opening to grow some balls and stand up for himself. Whether he choose to act or not is the question. I doubt he will, but the opportunity would be there.



As I said above

Nothing foolish about it. The league has been scrambling to cover for its errors for over a year and knows they are wrong yet have pushed it to, the 2nd highest court in the land. What is foolish is thinking they will ever admit they were wrong.

 

[Todd Bradley]

I'd love to be proven wrong, but the league has been out to screw the Patriots over at every turn. Given that we still have the same ******* commissioner in charge and nothing has changed, there is no reason to believe he is all of a sudden going to start acting in good faith.

There is absolutely zero chance whatsoever this is all wrapped up by Draft Day (barring a settlement). So even though you're wrong when you think there's a chance getting this wrapped up increases the chances of getting the picks back, it doesn't even matter.

I hear you there, but if something happens it will be by the hands of Kraft and his newfound balls, once the dust from the appeal has settled.

Goodell is gigantic scumbag piece of sh!t and he would never do the right thing.

Nothing foolish about it. The league has been scrambling to cover for its errors for over a year and knows they are wrong yet have pushed it to, the 2nd highest court in the land. What is foolish is thinking they will ever admit they were wrong.

Like I said above and before several times now, if it happens, it will be by Kraft putting his foot down finally, once the dust from the appeal has settled.

Clearly the Goodell and league would never act righteous on its own. I've never said or expected that to be the case.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

This would be the only reason that the judges ruling that it go back to Berman for a COMPLETE retrial would be a good thing.

If it goes back to Berman the case will still be limited to the arbitral record, as both parties originally stipulated. Now, if Berman has to go to issues the NFLPA brought up but he left alone last time (like bias) then there will be new briefings to support (and attack) those things, but it won't be any sort of "let's start from scratch and try to bring in all sorts of things we didn't the first time around" proceeding.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

I'd love to be proven wrong, but the league has been out to screw the Patriots over at every turn. Given that we still have the same ******* commissioner in charge and nothing has changed, there is no reason to believe he is all of a sudden going to start acting in good faith.

There is absolutely zero chance whatsoever this is all wrapped up by Draft Day (barring a settlement). So even though you're wrong when you think there's a chance getting this wrapped up increases the chances of getting the picks back, it doesn't even matter.

The draft is April 28. That's 56 days from oral argument. I'd say there's a pretty reasonable chance of getting a decision before then.

A unanimous affirmation of Berman's decision would mean the case is essentially over (absent an unexpected granting of cert.)

Kraft would have all the leverage in the world at that point and Goodell would be on pretty thin ice. If there was ever a time to get aggressive and outraged in public, it would be then.

For pete's sake, a federal circuit court just affirmed that you screwed over an iconic Boston sports figure.

 

[The Brandon Five]

The draft is May 23. That's 81 days from oral argument. I'd say there's a pretty reasonable chance of getting a decision before then.

A unanimous affirmation of Berman's decision would mean the case is essentially over (absent an unexpected granting of cert.)

Kraft would have all the leverage in the world at that point and Goodell would be on pretty thin ice. If there was ever a time to get aggressive and outraged in public, it would be then.

For pete's sake, a federal circuit court just affirmed that you screwed over an iconic Boston sports figure.

Erm, I think it's 4/28-4/30.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The draft is May 23. That's 81 days from oral argument. I'd say there's a pretty reasonable chance of getting a decision before then.

A unanimous affirmation of Berman's decision would mean the case is essentially over (absent an unexpected granting of cert.)

Kraft would have all the leverage in the world at that point and Goodell would be on pretty thin ice. If there was ever a time to get aggressive and outraged in public, it would be then.

For pete's sake, a federal circuit court just affirmed that you screwed over an iconic Boston sports figure.

kraft lost his opportunity when he failed to appeal. the league will never admit that the pats were right. even if there is no direct evidence of the balls being deflated at the AFCCG, the league will just say the pats did it in other games because the idiot called himself the "deflator" and was receiving stuff from Brady.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Erm, I think it's 4/28-4/30.

I stand corrected.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

kraft lost his opportunity when he failed to appeal. the league will never admit thst the pats were right. even if there is no direct evidence of the balls being deflated at thr AFCCG, the league will just say the pats did it in other games because the idiot called himself the "deflator."

There's no circumstantial evidence either. However, there's plenty of evidence of league shenanigans.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Why do we need to mock Chinese names?

How about General *** Biscuits? That's funny, right?

 

[Fencer]

How about General *** Biscuits?

If you want to laugh at an actual name, be my guest.

That's a lot different from seeing mention of somebody with a particular ancestry, and then immediately making fun of fictional people in the same ethnic group.

 

[1960Pats]

If you want to laugh at an actual name, be my guest..

Roger Goodell

 

[JoeSixPat]

If the NFL takes it to the Supreme Court, it will most probably not get to a vote. The Supremes will refuse to hear the case. I don't think (maybe someone who knows can verify) the CA can refuse to hear appeals.

As stupid and silly as it would be to see it appealed to the SC, they might actually take it up in the right circumstances, in part, I think, because it's an easy slam dunk and may clarify other future CBA disputes in all realms.

The NFL's general position is that the CBA lets them do what they want and that NO court has the authority to second guess the Comissioner.

Berman's response to that effectively was that whatever authority the CBA grants Goodell it doesn't exempt him from needing to have a fair process - which is of course the nature of the CBA. Berman is effectively saying that no CBA gives a party the ability to ignore the CBA , with Judge Doty openly questioning whether Goodell even "understands a CBA exists."

Liberal or conservative, I think it's going to be difficult for ANY judge to be able to affirm the NFL's position on any stable legal grounds.

The one thing everyone needs to remember is that ALL judges HATE to be overturned. It's insulting. Yes, sometimes it's a different interpretation of law - but the last thing they want is to risk having the Supreme Court overturning their ruling and explaining why they were wrong.

I think pretty much every judge in this appeal will default to the sane interpretation of law and reject the NFL argument that no court, law, or constitution applies to Roger Goodell's decisions on who to discipline and for how long regardless of the lack or absence of evidence, regardless of how far he may stray from the CBA which he himself helped negotiate.

If the Supreme Court wants to overturn THAT decision - and affirm that not even the Supreme Court has jurisdiction over the interpretation of a labor argreement between the NFL and NFLPA, I'm sure they're willing to chance that, as it would be a pretty HUGE precedent which I can't see being set.

And for that same reason, the Supremes might want to take this one up, give it a few minutes thought, and then write up a unanimous decision in a day that basically scoffs at Goodell's legal arguments and slaps him back home telling him to simply follow the CBA that he himself negotiated and agreed to follow... thus hopefully ending other frivolous appeals to the courts in the future.

 

[archstanton543]

As fans we get so immersed in the details of IGL and the league BS and when you come up for air and think about it, it's a total and complete embarrassment that these Federal Judges- who are tasked with interpreting the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights need to preside over THIS?

These Judges don't do that. That's the sole job of the Supreme Court. That's one level above them.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

As stupid and silly as it would be to see it appealed to the SC, they might actually take it up in the right circumstances, in part, I think, because it's an easy slam dunk and may clarify other future CBA disputes in all realms.

The NFL's general position is that the CBA lets them do what they want and that NO court has the authority to second guess the Comissioner.

Berman's response to that effectively was that whatever authority the CBA grants Goodell it doesn't exempt him from needing to have a fair process - which is of course the nature of the CBA. Berman is effectively saying that no CBA gives a party the ability to ignore the CBA , with Judge Doty openly questioning whether Goodell even "understands a CBA exists."

Liberal or conservative, I think it's going to be difficult for ANY judge to be able to affirm the NFL's position on any stable legal grounds.

The one thing everyone needs to remember is that ALL judges HATE to be overturned. It's insulting. Yes, sometimes it's a different interpretation of law - but the last thing they want is to risk having the Supreme Court overturning their ruling and explaining why they were wrong.

I think pretty much every judge in this appeal will default to the sane interpretation of law and reject the NFL argument that no court, law, or constitution applies to Roger Goodell's decisions on who to discipline and for how long regardless of the lack or absence of evidence, regardless of how far he may stray from the CBA which he himself helped negotiate.

If the Supreme Court wants to overturn THAT decision - and affirm that not even the Supreme Court has jurisdiction over the interpretation of a labor argreement between the NFL and NFLPA, I'm sure they're willing to chance that, as it would be a pretty HUGE precedent which I can't see being set.

And for that same reason, the Supremes might want to take this one up, give it a few minutes thought, and then write up a unanimous decision in a day that basically scoffs at Goodell's legal arguments and slaps him back home telling him to simply follow the CBA that he himself negotiated and agreed to follow... thus hopefully ending other frivolous appeals to the courts in the future.

Disagree. Denying cert after CA2 unanimously affirms Berman's decision accomplishes the same thing. I don't think the SCOTUS needs to formal issue a decision telling Roger, "Sorry, we're not overturning all that the 'law of the shop' precedent for you."

 

[vyrago]

Over/under on how many times the word integrity is used by the NFL: 65.

Not to mention "shield."

 

[RobertWeathers]

These Judges don't do that. That's the sole job of the Supreme Court. That's one level above them.

That is every court's job. Just not a prime focus of this one's.

 

[XLIX]

The draft is April 28. That's 56 days from oral argument. I'd say there's a pretty reasonable chance of getting a decision before then.

With all due respect, if you're hoping for a conclusion to this whole thing within the next 8 weeks, I'd advise not holding your breath.

A unanimous affirmation of Berman's decision would mean the case is essentially over (absent an unexpected granting of cert.)

Kraft would have all the leverage in the world at that point and Goodell would be on pretty thin ice. If there was ever a time to get aggressive and outraged in public, it would be then.

For pete's sake, a federal circuit court just affirmed that you screwed over an iconic Boston sports figure.

Except they're not affirming Brady's innocence. They're simply saying Goodell used an improper arbitrator (himself) and other miscellaneous rules about violating the Law of Shop.

Kraft has no leverage. What he needs is an enormous groundswell of support from either the general public or the rest of ownership. Nothing like that is even remotely on the horizon. Sure, we've gotten a couple articles of support from King and Stradley this past week, which registered nary a blip on the national stage.