Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB (from 1/31/2010)

[RhodyPatriot]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Tom Brady has the looks of a male model coupled with the virility of Zeus, as evidenced by his male progeny with an actress and a supermodel.

Payton Halfmanning "On March 17, 2001 Married His College Girlfriend Ashley Thompson In Memphis, Tennessee....and has produced exactly SQUAT in the regeneration of the species department.Obviously his "boys" are impotent, or possibly sterile...and of course, as we all know from the study of equines, there IS a difference between a jacka$$ and a mule.A mule is the offspring of a jack (male donkey) and a mare (female horse). The much rarer successful mating of a male horse and a female donkey produces a hinny.

so..take your pick...mule...hiney...jacka$$....that's
YOUR Paytie

That is hilarious!! And here I thought it was inbreeding....

 

[Joker]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Many of you say if the Tom Brady of 01-04 still were QB'ing, the Patriots would be better off as a team. Yet, if Tom Brady is unarguably much better than Peyton, why has he regressed as a QB over the last 5 years instead of maturing and evolving like Peyton Manning?

were you born AFTER 2007????

uh...do you even GET newspapers out there in CowPie County...Brady DIDN'T PLAY in 2008...who are you,anyway..the WATERBOY???..are crocodile angry because of their medulla oblongatas?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

If the team didn't win the Superbowl that year, everything else is moot. That's what you Patriot fans have been arguing for years in this Manning/Brady debate. Unbelievable regular seasons. Tom has more rings. 4 MVP's? Tom has more rings. Peyton dominates in almost every individual QB statistic. Tom has more RINGS. Peyton has never missed a start in his career, takes considerably less sacks/fumbles, calls and runs his own plays and controls his offense like no other QB ever. IT DIDN'T MATTER, TOM HAS MORE RINGS

I just ask all of you a simple question. Is Tom Brady (2005-2009) better or worse than Tom Brady (2001-2004)?

Statistics show that the Tom Brady of 05-09 is a considerably better QB than 01-04. He has had his 2 best statistical seasons of his career in this period, yet he has 0 Championships during it. As many of you are learning the hard way, winning championships takes amazing team effort, a great QB with a defense with glaring flaws presents a giant roadblock to winning a championship.

Many of you say if the Tom Brady of 01-04 still were QB'ing, the Patriots would be better off as a team. Yet, if Tom Brady is unarguably much better than Peyton, why has he regressed as a QB over the last 5 years instead of maturing and evolving like Peyton Manning?

But if you do not agree with the previous statement. Then why is he judged as a better QB than peyton based on the achievements of a time period where you will admit that as a QB he wasn't even at his peak statistically and benefited from having a better overall team?


There is also the myth that Brady is some sort of playoff god. While his team has a better record in playoff games, Manning has a better passer rating in the playoffs, which seems to bebunk the myth that Brady has unquestionably outperformed Manning in the postseason, which many of you recite here like scripture daily

After this season, when the rings argument doesn't hold anymore clout, many people will start to see that the rest of the argument has never been as close as people have made it out to be

Statistics accumulated while winning have value. Statistics accumulated while losing are hollow.
Brady was better in 01, 03 and 04 than since because for whatever reason, he made the plays that decided games in his favor. Nothing else matters. Since then he has had the opportunity to make plays and win another ring but he did not.
If we are talking about the best, possibly ever, excuses about who else didn't make plays are useless.

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Brady has all this over Manning:

Best statistical season by a QB: BRADY
Best statistics in postseason: BRADY
Most completions in a Super Bowl: BRADY

Better stats outdoors: BRADY
Better stats in a dome: BRADY

AFC Championships: BRADY
Super Bowl victories: BRADY
Playoff record: BRADY

The thing that sticks out to me is that Manning choked badly three times in the biggest games, and until 2007, Brady hadn't.

The fact is, were it not for incredibly generous calls from the referees in 2006, the Colts should not even have a ring. That championship game had Manning choke written all over it with his pick 6 to Samuel. and when the Patriots were about to go up 24-3 at halftime, a totally bogus referee's call on Troy Brown knocked them out of field goal position and gave the Colts the ball. A 21 point lead became a 11 point lead. It was compounded in the second half with a bogus PI on the Patriots that gave the Colts the ball at the 1 (and a TD), a call later admitted to be bogus by the NFL, and a horrid non-call on Hayden taking down Reche Caldwell in the end zone. Taken all together, these 3 made for 11 points difference, or a 22 point swing.

Brady, with receivers like Caldwell and Gaffney, had it all over Manning that day.

And until Bernard Pollard dove for Brady's knee, Brady was easily the better QB.

man - o - man, you are dead on. never knew i would come across another who hit it play for play when it came to the generous calls in the 2006 AFFCG, coarse this may have something to do with the fact I spend more time on colts boards where one may not fine such stuff.

but yah word for word I am in 100% agreement. To this day I think that Troy Brown "off PI" was a lets keep them in the game call. at a minimum, absent a INT or fumble, we get 3 points there. Furthermore, and much more importangling, we kill the clock and its yery very very unlikely the colts score going into half, so the game would of verying likely been 24-3, and maybe even 28-3, but at least 21-3, and the rest is kind of irrelevant its unlikely they come back given we scored more points in the second half.

I always said, back in '05 denver game adn the '06 colt game, lets us play and if we win, great. I sincerely believe that the NFL was not a fan of one teams winning 4 of 5 or "worse" 5 of 6 SBs, they wanted to spread the wealth and i believe we got hosed in 2005 and 2006. my poin then was let us be ref fairly and if we win great, as some point thru attrition our team will weaken and we will lose without the help of the refs, like in 08 and 09. To this day those missed opportunities really bother me, 05 and 06, and to some extent SB42, but that was not as bad as 05 and 06, i can seee some reasons for the calls in sb42.

 

[Sivy]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

If the team didn't win the Superbowl that year, everything else is moot. That's what you Patriot fans have been arguing for years in this Manning/Brady debate. Unbelievable regular seasons. Tom has more rings. 4 MVP's? Tom has more rings. Peyton dominates in almost every individual QB statistic. Tom has more RINGS. Peyton has never missed a start in his career, takes considerably less sacks/fumbles, calls and runs his own plays and controls his offense like no other QB ever. IT DIDN'T MATTER, TOM HAS MORE RINGS

I just ask all of you a simple question. Is Tom Brady (2005-2009) better or worse than Tom Brady (2001-2004)?

Statistics show that the Tom Brady of 05-09 is a considerably better QB than 01-04. He has had his 2 best statistical seasons of his career in this period, yet he has 0 Championships during it. As many of you are learning the hard way, winning championships takes amazing team effort, a great QB with a defense with glaring flaws presents a giant roadblock to winning a championship.

Many of you say if the Tom Brady of 01-04 still were QB'ing, the Patriots would be better off as a team. Yet, if Tom Brady is unarguably much better than Peyton, why has he regressed as a QB over the last 5 years instead of maturing and evolving like Peyton Manning?

But if you do not agree with the previous statement. Then why is he judged as a better QB than peyton based on the achievements of a time period where you will admit that as a QB he wasn't even at his peak statistically and benefited from having a better overall team?


There is also the myth that Brady is some sort of playoff god. While his team has a better record in playoff games, Manning has a better passer rating in the playoffs, which seems to bebunk the myth that Brady has unquestionably outperformed Manning in the postseason, which many of you recite here like scripture daily

After this season, when the rings argument doesn't hold anymore clout, many people will start to see that the rest of the argument has never been as close as people have made it out to be

3>2 there hillbilly.

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

You're putting that much on Sunday's game?

I think Manning has gone a long way toward erasing that. The year he did win the Superbowl, he overcame a 21-3 deficit, against his biggest rival, with arguably the biggest monkey on his back in playoff history, with clutch play.

In the AFC Champ. game this year, he also led a comeback from a 17-6 deficit, against one of the best D's in the league - again, with pretty clutch play.

I think the idea that he "wilts" in the big games is bogus. That might have been true early in his career, when he was unable to overcome some of the looks BB gave him on defense, but he's way past that...

he did loose to SD twice in the last two years, for what its worth could not punch the ball in the Endzone in 2007 at home, and could not cover on 3&2 in 2008 , both conversion would of resulted in a W for the colts

 

[Joker]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Bizzle thought he had the sizzle but alas all he had was drizzle and now his dreams they fizzle...

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

If Brady retires tommorow and they draft a guy who has the same EXACT career path as Manning I'd definently take it. If you give the Patriots, or any team a QB like Manning they're going to be a top ten team MINIMUM year in/out.

.

you do realize to simulate the colts well oil machine we are going to have to draft, or get in FA, two first rounders at RB, hold on to our OCs, and get 3 first rounders at WR and TE, right now we got 3 moss-marroney and watson. we gonna need to get a first rounder at RB and WR to make us like the colts, is simply not as simple as replacing the SB

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Cassel sucking this year with another team proves my point that the strength of this team is the team itself, not one singular player.

And absent Brady, didn't Belichick win 11 games with a QB that didn't start a a game since HC? LOL.

Yup, and he didn't even make the playoffs. And if he had, and lets say faced Pittsburgh or SD or Indy in those playoffs Cassel likely would have been toast.

I recognized what Cassel was long before you had your epiphany...and used to be ridiculed by posters like yourself for claiming him to be a QB capable of being a competent starter in this league and a potential flip for dr..dr..draft picks. Josh too as an OC headed for HC, and Sanders as the necessary field general in the secondary and lots of things those of you who bash incessantly suddenly have a change of heart about in revisionist history. Never had any use for CJ, unlike yourself. You're not a very good judge of what works other than in hindsight... For most of you football fandom is a win or suck mentality where if they win you learned a lesson you're unwilling to acknowledge most of us didn't require and if they lose you assume you were right all along and the rest of us should only dream of being half as savvy as you think you are...LOL

 

[L Bizzle]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Bizzle thought he had the sizzle but alas all he had was drizzle and now his dreams they fizzle...

wasn't funny the first time, so I don't know what you were thinking today.....

But I'm glad we all know Bradshaw>>Brady

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

What are you talking about 14-4?

That's not his TD/INT since than so please elaborate.

you do remember that in his first 9 playoff games he had the lowest INT per pass attempt in the history of the NFL second only to Bart Starr.

 

[L Bizzle]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

he did loose to SD twice in the last two years, for what its worth could not punch the ball in the Endzone in 2007 at home, and could not cover on 3&2 in 2008 , both conversion would of resulted in a W for the colts

In 2008 the game went in OT on the road, the Colts never touched the ball. Manning had a good game and a Marvin Harrison fumble changed the tone of the game.

In 2007 With Freeney done for the season and Mathis injured as well with a already suspect Defense the Colts were doomed no matter how Manning played

I can make excuses for playoff loses too.........I just don't have to include the refs for everyone

 

[condon84]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Yup, and he didn't even make the playoffs. And if he had, and lets say faced Pittsburgh or SD or Indy in those playoffs Cassel likely would have been toast.

I recognized what Cassel was long before you had your epiphany...and used to be ridiculed by posters like yourself for claiming him to be a QB capable of being a competent starter in this league and a potential flip for dr..dr..draft picks. Josh too as an OC headed for HC, and Sanders as the necessary field general in the secondary and lots of things those of you who bash incessantly suddenly have a change of heart about in revisionist history. Never had any use for CJ, unlike yourself. You're not a very good judge of what works other than in hindsight... For most of you football fandom is a win or suck mentality where if they win you learned a lesson you're unwilling to acknowledge most of us didn't require and if they lose you assume you were right all along and the rest of us should only dream of being half as savvy as you think you are...LOL

I try not to be too involved in the speculation business (although from time to time, I've nibbled).

What you like to do is speculate and toot your horn when you are proven right. Bravo. If that's what makes you happy so be it.

What I do is give whatever move BB makes the benefit of doubt, whether it's personnel, coaching, etc. Then I make comments out of that after the results are in.

My opinion that Belichick is the x-factor in this whole run may upset some people but he has proven that he can coach a contending team without Brady.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

My opinion that Belichick is the x-factor in this whole run may upset some people but he has proven that he can coach a contending team without Brady.

Any team can contend for anything with any QB. If you put a lot of talent together, you can win it all with Trent Dilfer and Brian Billick as your coach. All this is totally irrelevant to gauging how good Brady is, because Brady is the key to the Patriots, and without him, we don't win.

That doesn't mean Belichick will never win after Brady retires, and it doesn't mean Brady could win with Bum Phillips as coach.

 

[condon84]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Any team can contend for anything with any QB. If you put a lot of talent together, you can win it all with Trent Dilfer and Brian Billick as your coach. All this is totally irrelevant to gauging how good Brady is, because Brady is the key to the Patriots, and without him, we don't win.

That doesn't mean Belichick will never win after Brady retires, and it doesn't mean Brady could win with Bum Phillips as coach.

That's true, but the fact that Belichick has already gone through a year of coaching a team he built without Brady and winning 11 games in the process, he's proven that he can do it without Brady.

Until Brady goes to another team and does it without Belichick, all you're doing is speculating.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

That's true, but the fact that Belichick has already gone through a year of coaching a team he built without Brady and winning 11 games in the process, he's proven that he can do it without Brady.

Until Brady goes to another team and does it without Belichick, all you're doing is speculating.

We have very different hopes for the Patriots. Missing the playoffs is not doing "it" IMO, and the leap from doing anything in the regular season to performing in the playoffs is HUGE. In fact, that's precisely what this thread is about. I don't think any Patriots fan is arguing Brady has been better in the regular season than Manning.

As for your last point about speculating, uh, pot kettle black.

 

[Sivy]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

We have very different hopes for the Patriots. Missing the playoffs is not doing "it" IMO, and the leap from doing anything in the regular season to performing in the playoffs is HUGE. In fact, that's precisely what this thread is about. I don't think any Patriots fan is arguing Brady has been better in the regular season than Manning.

As for your last point about speculating, uh, pot kettle black.

I say he has been better in the regular season, if all things were equal.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Forget the playoffs. Brady has done it without the weapons that Manning has had his entire career. And in 2007 Brady proved what he could do WITH weapons.

Brady by a hair over Manning and these 2 sit atop the NFL in their own world, and then you get a step down into the Brees' and Rivers' of the NFL.

 

[Teenuh]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Many of you say if the Tom Brady of 01-04 still were QB'ing, the Patriots would be better off as a team. Yet, if Tom Brady is unarguably much better than Peyton, why has he regressed as a QB over the last 5 years instead of maturing and evolving like Peyton Manning?

were you born AFTER 2007????

uh...do you even GET newspapers out there in CowPie County...Brady DIDN'T PLAY in 2008...who are you,anyway..the WATERBOY???..are crocodile angry because of their medulla oblongatas?

Yeah, I swear some of these guys are living on another planet or something. They keep saying things like Brady has sucked the past several years but they post ZERO evidence to show it. Brady has had one (ONE) off year in recent history and that was this year. He had a DOMINANT year in 2007 and didn't play in 2008 so these guys need to lay off the drugs or whatever. I think they're just here to troll....

 

[Imperator]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

I concede Manning is probably a greater pure QB then Brady, at the moment. My opinion won't be cemented until both their cleats are hung up for good. As Tom still has more years (god willing) in his career then Peyton and there's plenty of time for things to change. I will say that they are neck and neck, seemingly outdoing the other and swapping the consensus pick for top spot every season or so. In the meanwhile I like to think of it more like this:

Manning came into the league highly heralded - first overall pick and all that jazz. Brady came in as the 199th overall selection. This isn't to say Manning hasn't exceeded even those hefty expectations (he has) but I think as far as they go, Brady has blown all others away. Also, as a fan of the Patriots as a team; Brady has given us more to cheer for in my opinion.

Both of them are great, destined for Canton and will be considered among the olympians of the Quarterback position. So let's just sit back and enjoy the rest of their careers.