Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB (from 1/31/2010)

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

In 2009, Moss had 83 catches/ 1264 yards/ 13 TD's and was a "non factor"?

Where do posters come up with such stupid observations?

Also, it should be expected that this year everything would run through Welker. You had new and young receivers with virtually zero time to work in the offseason.

It's traditionally recognized that three years are required to bring a passing offense to peek efficiency. That's why Polian has always spent top dollar to keep Goober's weapons. Does anyone think Garcon and Collie achieved what they did without hours and hours of offseason work?

Where was garcon in 2008?

If this team had 2002-2007 Brady, the Pats would have been a minimum 14-2 and would have blown out the Colts by three touchdowns.

2010 is the key because we will see if TB makes it fully "back".

Bull crap. If this team had 2009 Manning they'd be right where they are now, golfing. Brady wasn't the problem, his weapons (either being inexperienced or unreachable) or lack thereof coupled with a transitioning defense weren't going to beat anyone consistently.

Brady was back to normal in the second half of week one. Unfortunately he got injured again thereafter due to lack of sufficient weapons (Welker missed 2 weeks following which Edelman broke his forearm, following which Galloway was cut, around the time Taylor went to the inseason version of pup, following which Tate went to IR, following which the PS QB was added to the mix along with the ST captain...

Has Manning ever dealt with anything approaching that kind of circumstance on his offense in season and done a damn thing with it??? No.

Call me the first time Manning wins something with PS QB's and ST'ers as his second and third options absent his own binky slot receiver (Clark).

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Dont let the damn stats fool u on Moss!!!He did that pretty much against Tennessee when they sucked and Buffalo.My point is this offense has been a dink and dunk offense lately!They need WRs who can get deep.Moss may have not been 100 percent all year, who knows.All i know is that the playcalling was very predictable

Since this is a thread about the Colts, Moss had 9 catches for 179 yards and 2 TDs against the Colts.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

I think we could have won the first SB with another QB. Brady was the ultimate game-manager that year. Bledsoe managed the game in Pittsburgh and we won. He even made some nice throws.

We also won 11 games in 2008 with a QB that didn't play college football and had no prior starts in the NFL. That's remarkable and illustrates how well this team was operating.

If you look at the Colts, especially in the past couple of years, I don't think they can win more than 5 games without Manning.

I couldn't disagree more with you, and this post proves to me that you are one of the people that is a Brady doubter.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Since this is a thread about the Colts, Moss had 9 catches for 179 yards and 2 TDs against the Colts.

Sadly though what people like Dmoney and others fail to grasp is Brady needs weapons that can do more than go deep. He needs weapons that can run any route well including short and intermediate routes with YAC...or he needs a lot bigger OL. You can get him all sorts of deep threats and he won't be hitting them much from his ass.

 

[condon84]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

I couldn't disagree more with you, and this post proves to me that you are one of the people that is a Brady doubter.

Fundamental difference between you and I. I'm more about the team than any singular player.

We could trade Brady this offseason and if Bill has an adequate replacement that can lead us to a SB win next year, I won't shed a tear.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Fundamental difference between you and I. I'm more about the team than any singular player.

We could trade Brady this offseason and if Bill has an adequate replacement that can lead us to a SB win next year, I won't shed a tear.

You can go on with your imagined differences and pat yourself on the back all you like, but you're totally deluded about the value of Brady.

You guys that saw Matt Cassel last year and imagined anyone can do it don't know what you're talking about.

 

[D-Money]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Maybe that has to do with the scheme being run.Put any OC with a brilliant mind and i assure u that the offense would be more consistent.I thought losing Josh Mcdaniels would hurt this team.I ado agree that wr is an issue that needs to be addressed through the draft.

 

[condon84]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

I will, because Tom Brady is not coming through that door.

We're likelier to find the next Scott Zolak, or Marc Wilson, or Tommy Hodson.

That doesn't mean you're more of a fan of the Patriots, it only means you're deluded about the value of Brady.

2008 proved to me that we can still be a contending team without Tom Brady.

That year proved that BB is the most integral part of our organization. When BB makes the right or wrong decisions is when our games and seasons are won and lost. His game decisions, gameplans, offseason moves, etc.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

2008 proved to me that we can still be a contending team without Tom Brady.

That year proved that BB is the most integral part of our organization. When BB makes the right or wrong decisions is when our games and seasons are won and lost. His game decisions, gameplans, offseason moves, etc.

A contending team? We beat the league's dregs with the weakest schedule in eons.

I don't want the Patriots to accomplish what Ken O'Brien accomplished. I want them to win Super Bowls. Tom Brady's clutch play is the reason behind those Super Bowls, not Drew Bledsoe antics of throwing the ball over his shoulder without looking in a tight playoff game.

Matt Cassel has not proven anything about his playoff mettle and really bringing it when the going gets tough.

I will say this again: Tom Brady had Reche Caldwell as his top receiver in the 2006 playoffs. His next go-to guy, Jabar Gaffney, caught 11 passes the entire season. Both were unwanted street free agents, one was out of football.

Brady threw 70 completions in 3 playoff games on 119 attempts for 725 yards.

With street free agents, the Patriots scored 95 points in 3 playoff games.

No way can Matt Cassel or 99.9% of the league's QBs accomplish that. Especially against the defenses that the Patriots faced.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Fundamental difference between you and I. I'm more about the team than any singular player.

We could trade Brady this offseason and if Bill has an adequate replacement that can lead us to a SB win next year, I won't shed a tear.

LOL How'd that work out with Cassel, who is a pretty adequate replacement QB...he would have been lucky to win 7-8 games with this cast this season.

You're actually more about being right than you are about being a fan. Lots of folks here have that problem lately.

Absent Brady Belichick wouldn't still be here. Doesn't mean he isn't a great HC, just means had he not won at least the division and double digit games and gone deep into the playoffs - and he wouldn't have with Bledsoe because he couldn't run this system - he'd have run out of time and owner/fan/media patience to produce results. Drew was Brett Favre minus the scrambling capacity (and the tractor mentality). Drew was barely a competent replacement in Pittsburgh. Troy Brown won that game for us with a little help from Kordell Slash Stewart and an organization that convinced itself ego wins championships. Drew never gets us past the snowbowl...

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

This conversation takes a shift every season. It just depends on who is having the better season, whether it be through playoff results or through statistical performance. I'll go back three years: in 2007 Brady was the better QB, 2008 is a wash with Brady being out for the year, and in 2009 Manning is once again the better QB of the two (in regards to how the press/general public sees it). If Manning loses the Super Bowl this year and Brady comes back in 2010 and throws 30+ TD's with the Pats advancing deep into the playoffs (or to the Super Bowl), then the general public will once again say that Brady is the better of the two. Meanwhile, Pats fans and Colts fans continue to learn how fickle the public's general opinion in regards to anything is.

 

[Yehoodi]

"Rings" isn't the greatest argument, on its own. Bradshaw is better than either, if that's the case (love Terry, but he isn't better than either).

With the emergence of Collie & Garcon, it also bolsters the argument that any receiver is going to look pretty great with Manning under center.

It's interesting the Brady's best postseason success came at a time when he didn't have the marquee receivers he has now...

First, Collie and Garcon aren't the #1 and #2 like Caldwell and Gaffeny in 2006, there are #3 and #4 on the list, putting Clark as my #2 on that team even tho he isa TE, but he plays like a slot WR. As such they will not garner the top players on the defense in coverage. Did all of a sudden Wayne and clark get stupid in the AFFCG? or perhaps were they taken the coverage, more times than not by the best DBs, and the others were on Collie and Garcon. I would like to see them matched as #1 and #2 WR and then we can see how well they do . . .

Second, TB and his "good" WRs won the 2007 AFCCG and went on to give their D the lead with around 2 mins to go in the SB. In 2008, TB was injured, and in 2009 Welker did not play in the playoffs. So they have been together for only ONE season and ONE playoffs and in that season, 2007, they came 2 mins from 19-0

Third, rings do come into play when the two QBs are close, no one is going to put Trent Dilfer in the top QBs of all time, but when you start to look at the top 20, top 10 all time, or the top 5 or so of a generation, then rings do matter . . .

 

[Sivy]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

OK, Tom had a ridiculous 07 season, I get that.

Put it this way, this year was the second highest totals in Brady's career. Yet would ANYONE dare say his season was half as good as Manning's?

Sorry, but statisticly speaking Brady ain't stacking up well. What Manning is doing this eyar is pretty much what he has done every single year. To say Brady is not AS good as Manning isn't a knock at all. Manning is just robot like consistent when it comes to statistics.

But hey, because wins a postseason is all that matters I'm guessing Brady was just green with envy about Mark Sanchez's awesome year, mhm?

Yes, considering the difference in scheduels.

 

[condon84]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

LOL How'd that work out with Cassel, who is a pretty adequate replacement QB...he would have been lucky to win 7-8 games with this cast this season.

You're actually more about being right than you are about being a fan. Lots of folks here have that problem lately.

Absent Brady Belichick wouldn't still be here. Doesn't mean he isn't a great HC, just means had he not won at least the division and double digit games and gone deep into the playoffs - and he wouldn't have with Bledsoe because he couldn't run this system - he'd have run out of time and owner/fan/media patience to produce results. Drew was Brett Favre minus the scrambling capacity (and the tractor mentality). Drew was barely a competent replacement in Pittsburgh. Troy Brown won that game for us with a little help from Kordell Slash Stewart and an organization that convinced itself ego wins championships. Drew never gets us past the snowbowl...

Cassel sucking this year with another team proves my point that the strength of this team is the team itself, not one singular player.

And absent Brady, didn't Belichick win 11 games with a QB that didn't start a a game since HC? LOL.

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

there was no rule change. the rule was already in place. there is no manning rule

there is a brady rule though

correction there is no brady rule either. in both cases rules were re-emphasized. In 2004 they re-emphasized the 5 yard chuck rule, that was put in place and some create to Mel Blount of the 70 steelers. The "brady rule" was re-emphasized to the low hit rule that was in place in 2006 after Carslon Palmer was injured in the playoffs against Pitt.

 

[Yehoodi]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Nope. Tom Brady threw more touchdown passes than any other QB before, thats all. Peyton 2004 had a better passer rating (Highest all time) Peyton 04 had a better completion percentage, better touchdowns per attempt. I would hardly call that the greatest season by a QB ever, especially since he has no ring to show from that season

and If Peyton wins the SB this year Manning 's 09 season > Brady's 07 season

TB threw for more TDs, helped his team score some 8 more TDs. The colts had a interesting drop off in rushing TDs in 2004 whereas the Pats offense maintained its quota of rushing TDs in 2007, an indication that, for whatever reasons (play calling a pass as opposed to a run, a WR getting in the endzone as opposed to being knock out of bounds resulting in a run play for the next play for TD), rushing TDs were coverted into passing TDs ending up helping the QB to have better than normal stats.

So TB got his team in the endzone overall about 8 more times and did all of this in the same number of meaningfull possessions (ones not including knee downs and runs plays to end the half or game) The both had 146 possessions in their two carreer years but the TB lead offensive score more TDs overall than the PM lead offense. plane and simply i don't worry too much about 50 v 49 as i do that TB got his team in the endzone more, had the WRs and playing calling been like it was for PM in 2004, TB would of had some 54 or so TDS

 

[Joker]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Tom Brady has the looks of a male model coupled with the virility of Zeus, as evidenced by his male progeny with an actress and a supermodel.

Payton Halfmanning "On March 17, 2001 Married His College Girlfriend Ashley Thompson In Memphis, Tennessee....and has produced exactly SQUAT in the regeneration of the species department.Obviously his "boys" are impotent, or possibly sterile...and of course, as we all know from the study of equines, there IS a difference between a jacka$$ and a mule.A mule is the offspring of a jack (male donkey) and a mare (female horse). The much rarer successful mating of a male horse and a female donkey produces a hinny.

so..take your pick...mule...hiney...jacka$$....that's
YOUR Paytie

 

[L Bizzle]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

Second, TB and his "good" WRs won the 2007 AFCCG and went on to give their D the lead with around 2 mins to go in the SB. In 2008, TB was injured, and in 2009 Welker did not play in the playoffs. So they have been together for only ONE season and ONE playoffs and in that season, 2007, they came 2 mins from 19-0

.

If the team didn't win the Superbowl that year, everything else is moot. That's what you Patriot fans have been arguing for years in this Manning/Brady debate. Unbelievable regular seasons. Tom has more rings. 4 MVP's? Tom has more rings. Peyton dominates in almost every individual QB statistic. Tom has more RINGS. Peyton has never missed a start in his career, takes considerably less sacks/fumbles, calls and runs his own plays and controls his offense like no other QB ever. IT DIDN'T MATTER, TOM HAS MORE RINGS

I just ask all of you a simple question. Is Tom Brady (2005-2009) better or worse than Tom Brady (2001-2004)?

Statistics show that the Tom Brady of 05-09 is a considerably better QB than 01-04. He has had his 2 best statistical seasons of his career in this period, yet he has 0 Championships during it. As many of you are learning the hard way, winning championships takes amazing team effort, a great QB with a defense with glaring flaws presents a giant roadblock to winning a championship.

Many of you say if the Tom Brady of 01-04 still were QB'ing, the Patriots would be better off as a team. Yet, if Tom Brady is unarguably much better than Peyton, why has he regressed as a QB over the last 5 years instead of maturing and evolving like Peyton Manning?

But if you do not agree with the previous statement. Then why is he judged as a better QB than peyton based on the achievements of a time period where you will admit that as a QB he wasn't even at his peak statistically and benefited from having a better overall team?


There is also the myth that Brady is some sort of playoff god. While his team has a better record in playoff games, Manning has a better passer rating in the playoffs, which seems to bebunk the myth that Brady has unquestionably outperformed Manning in the postseason, which many of you recite here like scripture daily

After this season, when the rings argument doesn't hold anymore clout, many people will start to see that the rest of the argument has never been as close as people have made it out to be

 

[Buchanty]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

...Unfortunately he got injured again thereafter due to lack of sufficient weapons (Welker missed 2 weeks following which Edelman broke his forearm, following which Galloway was cut, around the time Taylor went to the inseason version of pup, following which Tate went to IR, following which the PS QB was added to the mix along with the ST captain...

Has Manning ever dealt with anything approaching that kind of circumstance on his offense in season and done a damn thing with it??? No.

Call me the first time Manning wins something with PS QB's and ST'ers as his second and third options absent his own binky slot receiver (Clark).

Well stated (and your subsequent post to this one)! It has been a carousel this past season at anything beyond Moss and Welker; once Welker went down the die was cast.

Watching the Colts in the off season one could see their biggest asset is the no-huddle offense and it works because of so many targets and no rest for the defense. Plenty of off-season practice, plenty of in-season tuning against weaker pass defenses and no injuries - result "Manning is unstoppable", MVP, GOAT and candidate for immortality.

The no-huddle offense from the Patriots was only a shadow of former times because of the lack of targets, the lack of repetitions, the stronger pass defenses and injury following injury. Greatness should not be only bestowed for the summits achieved but more importantly the obstacles overcome to reach them.

One of my major wishes for the 2010 season is a return to form of our no-huddle offense (especially in the 4th quarter).

 

[oldskool138]

Re: Bob Cryin: Manning is the better QB

One of my major wishes for the 2010 season is a return to form of our no-huddle offense (especially in the 4th quarter).

Only if they're behind.

The biggest reason they didn't hold on to some of those 4th quarter leads in their losses was their inability to pick up first downs and bleed the clock.