Bill's Decisions, Good & Bad

[1960Pats]

I was thinking of doing a thread on Bill's mistakes but that would have been my own mistake. Instead we could have a discussion about any of the moves that Bill has made over the years, both good and bad. Since I didn't join here until 2012 some of my memories may have already been discussed here so bear with me. I'd also like to hear anyone else's thoughts.

Good - The intentional safety at Denver in 2003. Of course it was a big gamble but it paid off in spades. The fact that it gave us a victory in Denver is no small feat. They had plenty of success against the Pats over the years. I still have nightmares over a Mosi fumble that cost the Pats a sure win.

Bad - The 4th & 2 attempt in Indy in 2006. The Pats had 3rd and 2 with a little over 2 minutes left and in our own end, threw an incomplete pass on 3rd down and then used their last TO, stopping the clock. When they went for it on 4th down they should have been able to review the play but didn't have a TO to do it as the time was still over 2 minutes and there was no automatic replay. Why the hell didn't they run it on 3rd down and run the clock to the 2 minute warning if they were going to go for it?

Please feel free to comment on those or add your own. I have a few more decisions in mind also.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This will go well.

 

[1960Pats]

This will go well.

It could. The folks who want to talk about the good decisions can. There have been plenty of those, likely many more than bad decisions.

Have we really gotten to the point that any discussion of anything Bill has done is going to start trouble? That's a very sad commentary.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Good: his insight against Goff's weaknesses during super bowl 53. Was a huge factor in them winning the game, the biggest.

 

[Ian]

It could. The folks who want to talk about the good decisions can. There have been plenty of those, likely many more than bad decisions.

Have we really gotten to the point that any discussion of anything Bill has done is going to start trouble? That's a very sad commentary.

It’s not that at all - it’s just that I’m a little confused as to why we can’t just talk about the upcoming season rather than re-live past posts and discussions all over again? We’ve already covered a sizable amount this off-season.

I’ll lock this thread, but you’re welcome to revisit it again after the season. At least then there will be new material we can get into - probably both good and bad.

 

[Ian]

(Hits pause button)

 

[Ian]

Opening this back up because it's been in my bookmarks, and I'm cleaning a few of those out. Plus, I promised the OP (@1960Pats) I'd reopen it.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Good: Not calling the timeout in SB 49.

Bad: Going for it on 4th and 13 in SB 42 while in FG range.

 

[sb1]

Good: Give Peyton Manning the ball, we’ll take the wind (2013)

Bad: The Steven Jackson game (2015)

 

[maust]

Opening this back up because it's been in my bookmarks, and I'm cleaning a few of those out. Plus, I promised the OP ( @1960Pats ) I'd reopen it.

 

[Clonamery]

Don't understand his need for 20 year old girls. Is it a Lolita complex or a Grandpa complex. He's very complex. Like what's with him wiping his nose with his wrist/palm when all he had to do was not cut the sleeves off his hoodie? God, he is sooooo dumb but complex dumb.

 

[1960Pats]

Opening this back up because it's been in my bookmarks, and I'm cleaning a few of those out. Plus, I promised the OP (@1960Pats) I'd reopen it.

Thanks for thinking of me @Ian . I had forgotten about this poorly timed attempt at bringing all the negativity to one thread. We seem to be better now.

 

[1960Pats]

Good: Not calling the timeout in SB 49.

Bad: Going for it on 4th and 13 in SB 42 while in FG range.

Not calling the TO in SB 49 might be more in the great category.

 

[jmt57]

This could be worthy of a separate thread, but in addition to in-game decisions, how about good vs bad roster decisions.

Avoiding the two obvious ones (Brady over Bledsoe, letting Tom walk), here are a few off the top of my head

Good Decisions - many of which were highly questioned at the time:
+ Trading for Randy Moss (considered to be a loafer, malcontent, washed up)
+ Trading Moss to Vikings (didn't Brad Childress say 'thanks for handing us the super bowl, or words to that effect?)
+ Trading for Corey Dillon (alleged malcontent)
+ Trading for Wes Welker (a 2nd round draft pick was 'way too much' for a backup/special teamer)
+ Getting Akiem Hicks for Michael Hoomanawanui (thank you Saints)
+ Signing Danny Amendola as a free agent
+ Aqib Talib (another "bad attitude"), for just a 4th round pick
+ LeGarrette Blount for Jeff Demps and a 7th rounder (thank you again, Tampa Bay)
+ Ted Washington, also for just a 4th round pick
+ Chris Hogan (thank you Buffalo for not matching the Pats offer)
+ Darelle Revis - only a one year rental, but well worth it
+ Antowain Smith - supposedly washed up at that point
+ Rosevelt Colvin (thank you, Bears)
+ Mike Vrabel (thank you, Pittsburgh)
+ Rob Ninkovich (that may have been more due to Scott Pioli's recommendation than BB)
+ Taking advantage of Brian Billick's lust for QB Kyle Boller, and trading down from a 1st for a 2nd and 2004 1st (vince Wilfork)

Bad Decisions:
- Replacing Ted Johnson with free agent Monty Beisel at linebacker
- Keeping Nick Kaczur over rookie Ted Larsen; Kaczur had a bad back and never played again, while Larsen had a 10-year NFL career
- Giving up two draft picks for 33-year old Chad Johnson, who caught all of 15 passes and one TD. One of those picks was WR Marvin Jones, who caught 58 TD over his 11-year career.
- Letting Ty Law walk as a free agent, and replacing him in a trade for Duane Starks
- Drafting N'Keal Harry over Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown and DK Metcalf
- Not paying Jakobi Meyers to stay, and replacing him with JuJu
- Drafting Dominique Easley in the 1st round was a swing and a miss; far too much potential downside with those bad knees
- The other well known draft head scratchers: Ras-I Dowling, Duke Dawson, Tavon Wilson, etc.
- We will never know the real story, but benching Malcolm Butler, and going with Eric Rowe instead. Why, why, 1,000 times, why?

 

[1960Pats]

This could be worthy of a separate thread, but in addition to in-game decisions, how about good vs bad roster decisions.

Avoiding the two obvious ones (Brady over Bledsoe, letting Tom walk), here are a few off the top of my head

Good Decisions - many of which were highly questioned at the time:
+ Trading for Randy Moss (considered to be a loafer, malcontent, washed up)
+ Trading Moss to Vikings (didn't Brad Childress say 'thanks for handing us the super bowl, or words to that effect?)
+ Trading for Corey Dillon (alleged malcontent)
+ Trading for Wes Welker (a 2nd round draft pick was 'way too much' for a backup/special teamer)
+ Getting Akiem Hicks for Michael Hoomanawanui (thank you Saints)
+ Signing Danny Amendola as a free agent
+ Aqib Talib (another "bad attitude"), for just a 4th round pick
+ LeGarrette Blount for Jeff Demps and a 7th rounder (thank you again, Tampa Bay)
+ Ted Washington, also for just a 4th round pick
+ Chris Hogan (thank you Buffalo for not matching the Pats offer)
+ Darelle Revis - only a one year rental, but well worth it
+ Antowain Smith - supposedly washed up at that point
+ Rosevelt Colvin (thank you, Bears)
+ Mike Vrabel (thank you, Pittsburgh)
+ Rob Ninkovich (that may have been more due to Scott Pioli's recommendation than BB)
+ Taking advantage of Brian Billick's lust for QB Kyle Boller, and trading down from a 1st for a 2nd and 2004 1st (vince Wilfork)

Bad Decisions:
- Replacing Ted Johnson with free agent Monty Beisel at linebacker
- Keeping Nick Kaczur over rookie Ted Larsen; Kaczur had a bad back and never played again, while Larsen had a 10-year NFL career
- Giving up two draft picks for 33-year old Chad Johnson, who caught all of 15 passes and one TD. One of those picks was WR Marvin Jones, who caught 58 TD over his 11-year career.
- Letting Ty Law walk as a free agent, and replacing him in a trade for Duane Starks
- Drafting N'Keal Harry over Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown and DK Metcalf
- Not paying Jakobi Meyers to stay, and replacing him with JuJu
- Drafting Dominique Easley in the 1st round was a swing and a miss; far too much potential downside with those bad knees
- The other well known draft head scratchers: Ras-I Dowling, Duke Dawson, Tavon Wilson, etc.
- We will never know the real story, but benching Malcolm Butler, and going with Eric Rowe instead. Why, why, 1,000 times, why?

I was thinking more of in-game coaching decisions but those trades and FA pickups are a great addition.

+The Welker move was a favorite of mine. Bill sweetened the pot with a draft pick instead of letting him hit free agency.
+And Vrabel was only one of Bill's grabs in 2001. There were others that helped turn the team around.

-Some of Bill's later dumps on offense had me thinking that he was going to redo the offense but he got shown the door instead.

I'm not as opposed to picking players with injuries like Dowling as some are. Gronk was a gamble that paid off big time.

Overall, Bill made far, far more good decisions than bad.

 

[Clonamery]

This could be worthy of a separate thread, but in addition to in-game decisions, how about good vs bad roster decisions.

Avoiding the two obvious ones (Brady over Bledsoe, letting Tom walk), here are a few off the top of my head

Good Decisions - many of which were highly questioned at the time:
+ Trading for Randy Moss (considered to be a loafer, malcontent, washed up)
+ Trading Moss to Vikings (didn't Brad Childress say 'thanks for handing us the super bowl, or words to that effect?)
+ Trading for Corey Dillon (alleged malcontent)
+ Trading for Wes Welker (a 2nd round draft pick was 'way too much' for a backup/special teamer)
+ Getting Akiem Hicks for Michael Hoomanawanui (thank you Saints)
+ Signing Danny Amendola as a free agent
+ Aqib Talib (another "bad attitude"), for just a 4th round pick
+ LeGarrette Blount for Jeff Demps and a 7th rounder (thank you again, Tampa Bay)
+ Ted Washington, also for just a 4th round pick
+ Chris Hogan (thank you Buffalo for not matching the Pats offer)
+ Darelle Revis - only a one year rental, but well worth it
+ Antowain Smith - supposedly washed up at that point
+ Rosevelt Colvin (thank you, Bears)
+ Mike Vrabel (thank you, Pittsburgh)
+ Rob Ninkovich (that may have been more due to Scott Pioli's recommendation than BB)
+ Taking advantage of Brian Billick's lust for QB Kyle Boller, and trading down from a 1st for a 2nd and 2004 1st (vince Wilfork)

Bad Decisions:
- Replacing Ted Johnson with free agent Monty Beisel at linebacker
- Keeping Nick Kaczur over rookie Ted Larsen; Kaczur had a bad back and never played again, while Larsen had a 10-year NFL career
- Giving up two draft picks for 33-year old Chad Johnson, who caught all of 15 passes and one TD. One of those picks was WR Marvin Jones, who caught 58 TD over his 11-year career.
- Letting Ty Law walk as a free agent, and replacing him in a trade for Duane Starks
- Drafting N'Keal Harry over Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown and DK Metcalf
- Not paying Jakobi Meyers to stay, and replacing him with JuJu
- Drafting Dominique Easley in the 1st round was a swing and a miss; far too much potential downside with those bad knees
- The other well known draft head scratchers: Ras-I Dowling, Duke Dawson, Tavon Wilson, etc.
- We will never know the real story, but benching Malcolm Butler, and going with Eric Rowe instead. Why, why, 1,000 times, why?

(Tavon Wilson? Really? He played 10 years in the League. You could have said, Jake Bequette or...)

 

[sb1]

I think we need a good/bad thread for Mayo.

 

[Zarozzor]

Excluding Butler, not kicking the field goal on 4th and 13 in Super Bowl 42 is the worst decision Belichick ever made. Going for it on 4th and 13 instead of attempting a 49 yard field goal in a dome is mind boggling. If Gostkowski hits that field goal, I think the last drive that began with 35 seconds and two timeouts is played a lot differently than it was if it’s 17-17 instead of 17-14.

The 2007 offense was so dominant that Gostkowski rarely needed to kick it from long range. His long was 45 yards that season. But in the two surrounding seasons, 2006 and 2008, his long was 52 and 50.

He was 22/26 in 2007 including the playoffs. His 4 misses were:
32 yards (outdoors, 30ish degrees)
35 yards (outdoors, 30ish degrees)
41 yards (outdoors, 50ish degrees)
48 yards (outdoors, 30ish degrees)

He was 3/3 in a dome that season. His 3 field goals were 22, 34, and 45 yards.

Honorable mention for the second worst decision(s) is passing up a 32 AND 34 yard field goal attempt on 4th down in the 4th quarter of the 2015 AFC Championship Game. A game they lost by 2 points.

 

[jmt57]

(Tavon Wilson? Really? He played 10 years in the League. You could have said, Jake Bequette or...)

True, but at the time I was only looking at 1st or 2nd round draft picks.
If I recall correctly the only time he got on the field on defense was as a rookie, when Steve Gregory missed a few games with an injury.
One expects more than just a special teamer from a 2nd round draft pick.

A better example would have been drafting Jermaine Cunningham rather than Carlos Dunlap.
At least Gronk was taken earlier that same round.

Could add Cyrus Jones, Jordan Richards, JoeJuan Williams, Ron Brace, etc.



As for Bequette, I am thoroughly convinced that he had some incriminating photos of either Belichick or Kraft.
I cannot for the life of me understand why he kept getting another chance, year after year.
The fact that not one single other team brought him in for a workout or interview after he was cut says it all.

 

[sb1]

Another one

Good: Was always impressed at how the Pats offense in 2018 reinvented themselves in December to a run first team that took them all the way. The rest of the league wasn't ready for it.

Bad: Asking his kicker to try a 68 yard GW FG in Gillette stadium which is not known to be kicker friendly instead of a hail mary. He missed but coach can't help them once they're between the white lines... oh wait wrong guy never mind. Yes I'm salty about last season lol.
How about Bill asking his kicker to try a long low % FG in the rain to lose the Brady/Bucs game instead of trusting his rookie QB to convert a 4th and short. Jones for all his faults later was playing well against the champs that night in his 4th ever start.