Bill Parcell had some amazing drafts during his time here

[ATippett56]

Love your sig. I hope BB does. I say next year we don't draft any players from any schools in the state of florida.

Plus the Nick Saban connection!

 

[ATippett56]

Dreith intentionally screwed the Patriots in that game...and admitted it 25 years later in an interview on his ranch in Montana...seems he hated easterners and especially New Yawkers and Bahstonites...there was NEVER a a hit by Hamilton on Stabler on 3rd down, forensic videography years later proved it and then Dreith admitted that he screwed the Pats ...

here's the Boston media on this dastardly villain...

Villains: Ben Dreith

here's a snippet from his bio

During the 1976 playoff between the Oakland Raiders and the New England Patriots, Dreith called a roughing-the-passer penalty on Patriots tackle Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton, nullifying a third down incompletion and giving the Raiders an automatic first down deep in New England territory, which led to Oakland's game-winning touchdown with less than a minute left. Replays showed there was no illegal contact. Partially because of the controversy, the league never assigned Dreith to officiate Patriots games again.

Jetdell would have him doing every other Patriots game today....

With all due respect to the new millenium, that was my favorite New England Patriots team.

 

[upstater1]

Stanley Morgan more talented than Terry Glenn? Glenn made some of the best catches I have ever seen. He was like a much faster, better route running version of Brandon Lloyd.

Morgan over Glenn any day of the week.

 

[ATippett56]

Morgan over Glenn any day of the week.

"The Steamer"

 

[Kontradiction]

Okay, but how did Bill Parcells do in his time here?

 

[DarrylS]

Okay, but how did Bill Parcells do in his time here?

The hard question, have to remember that Parcells was not "shopping" for the groceries..

 

[Zeus]

Parcells also signed free agents Bob Kratch and Myron Guyton and traded for washed up RB Marion Butts.

Actually, Charlie Armey was responsible for those drafts. After leaving NE, Armey went on to build the very good Rams teams in the late 90s.

For those too young to remember Stanley Morgan, check his stats against overated Hall of Famer Lynn Swann. Morgan was a superb WR who is worthy of HOF consideration.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm actually surprised. I remembered the Pats drafts being better than that actually under Parcells. Yes, he had a lot of home runs and a few grand slams, but he got far fewer solid role players than I imagined.

A couple things:

- As pointed out, Parcells doesn't deserve credit for Terry Glenn. He didn't want him and Kraft overruled him.

- Chris Slade was very good for a short period of time, but he wasn't more than above average.

- I don't know if I give him much credit for Drew Bledsoe. When a team has the first overall pick, you expect them to hit a home run. Belichick had a 50-50 chance to be right between Bledsoe and Mirer.

 

[ivanvamp]

1996 - New England Patriots

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 7 Terry Glenn WR Ohio State
2 36 Lawyer Milloy SS Washington
3 86 Tedy Bruschi LB Arizona
4 101 Heath Irwin G Colorado
4 119 Chris Sullivan DE Boston College
4 124 Kantroy Barber RB West Virginia
5 139 John Elmore G Texas
5 149 Christian Peter DT Nebraska
6 173 Chris Griffin TE New Mexico
6 195 Marrio Grier RB Tennessee-Chattanooga
6 206 Devin Wyman DT Kentucky State
7 216 Lovett Purnell TE West Virginia
7 247 J.R. Conrad C Oklahoma

1995 - New England Patriots

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 23 Ty Law CB Michigan
2 57 Ted Johnson ILB Colorado
3 74 Curtis Martin RB Pittsburgh
3 88 Jimmy Hitchcoch CB North Carolina
4 112 Dave Wohlabaugh C Syracuse
6 195 Dino Philyaw RB Oregon
7 234 Carlos Yancy DB Georgia

1994 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 4 Willie McGinest OLB USC
2 35 Kevin Lee WR Alabama
3 78 Ervin Collier DT Florida A&M
3 90 Joe Burch C Texas Southern
4 121 John Burke TE Virginia Tech
5 135 Pat O'Neill P Syracuse
6 166 Steve Hawkins WR Western Michigan
6 168 Max Lane T Navy
7 198 Jay Walker QB Howard
7 222 Marty Moore LB Kentucky

1993 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 1 Drew Bledsoe QB Washington State
2 31 Chris Slade OLB Virginia
2 51 Todd Rucci T Penn State
2 56 Vincent Brisby WR Louisiana-Monroe
4 86 Kevin Johnson DT Texas Southern
4 110 Corwin Brown SS Michigan
5 113 Scott Sisson K Georgia Tech
5 138 Rich Griffith TE Arizona
6 142 Lawrence Hatch CB Florida
8 198 Troy Brown WR Marshall


In 4 years of drafting with New England, Parcells got

Drew Blesdsoe
Troy Brown
Chris Slade
Willie McGinist
Ted Johnson
Tedi Bruschi
Curtis Martin
Ty Law
Lawyer Milloy
Terry Glenn

I mean that is an unbelievable quality of talent, and what's more impressive about it is Parcells hit BIG in a bunch of different positions. He hit on all our skill positions on offense(Pro Bowl players at QB, RB, WR Bledsoe Glenn Martin) he hit on pass rushers(McGinist, Slade),hit on run stuffing linebackers(Johnson Bruschi), hit on secondary(Law Milloy)....He set us up greatly for those superbowl winning teams. Parcells didn't have a lot of success with lineman, but I think the current patriots need to do a little less hitting on lineman and a little more hitting on the skilled position players.

Look at the drafts following 1996:

1997
1 (29) DB Chris Canty
2 (29) DL Brandon Mitchell
3 (1) RB Sedrick Shaw
3 (29) DB Chris Carter

1998
1 (18) RB Robert Edwards
1 (22) DB Tebucky Jones
2 (22) WR Tony Simmons
2 (24) TE Rod Rutledge
3 (20) DL Greg Spires
4 (23) DL Leonta Rheams
5 (22) LB Ron Merkerson
6 (23) RB Harold Shaw

1999
1 (28) LB Andy Katzenmoyer
2 (15) RB Kevin Faulk
3 (30) DB Tony George
6 (11) DB Marcus Washington
7 (21) QB Michael Bishop
7 (35) WR Sean Morey

Holy smokes...just a few good players out of all those picks.

Here are, in my view, some good picks made by BB:

2000
3 (14) JR Redmond - very useful player...key contributor on the SB-winning drive vs. the Rams
6 (33) Tom Brady - duh
7 (33) Patrick Pass - another very useful player

2001
1 (6) Richard Seymour - stud
2 (17) Matt Light - pro bowl left tackle for years

2002
1 (21) Daniel Graham - solid TE
2 (33) Deion Branch
4 (28) Jarvis Green - really solid DLineman
7 (42) David Givens - solid receiver

2003
1 (13) Ty Warren - outstanding Dlineman
2 (4) Eugene Wilson - looked like he was going to be special, but faded after a few really good years
4 (23) Asante Samuel - if only he had held on to the pick in the SB.......
5 (29) Dan Koppen - anchor for the OL
7 (25) Tully Banta-Cain - has had some good years...great for a 7th round pick

2004
1 (21) Vince Wilfork - stud
1 (32) Ben Watson - has become a really good NFL tight end

2005
1 (32) Logan Mankins - pro bowl G
3 (20) Ellis Hobbs - solid NFL player
3 (37) Nick Kaczur - don't love him, but he was very useful
4 (32) James Sanders - served us well here
7 (16) Matt Cassel - hard to believe...made the pro bowl as a QB for KC

2006
4 (21) Stephen Gostowski - about the only real positive thing I can say about that draft...thought Maroney (1/21) would be better than he turned out to be

2007
1 (24) Brandon Meriweather - bonehead, but made some big plays for the Pats....and that's about it from this draft...two not-so-good years in a row

2008
1 (10) Jerod Mayo - stud
5 (18) Matthew Slater - really solid player

2009
2 (2) Patrick Chung - good safety
2 (26) Sebastian Vollmer - solid T
3 (19) Brandon Tate - really good returner

2010
1 (27) Devin McCourty - good CB
2 (10) Rob Gronkowski - stud
2 (21) Jermaine Cunningham - I want to see another year before I give up on him
2 (30) Brandon Spikes - solid
3 (26) Taylor Price - still think he's going to be pretty good
4 (15) Aaron Hernandez - stud
5 (19) Zoltan Mesko - good punter

2011 - too early to tell

 

[RayClay]

Parcells also signed free agents Bob Kratch and Myron Guyton and traded for washed up RB Marion Butts.

Actually, Charlie Armey was responsible for those drafts. After leaving NE, Armey went on to build the very good Rams teams in the late 90s.

For those too young to remember Stanley Morgan, check his stats against overated Hall of Famer Lynn Swann. Morgan was a superb WR who is worthy of HOF consideration.

Parcells had the final say on drafts with the rest of the staff, prominently Armey, from the Orthwein era. As Kraft and Parcells relationship became abrasive, he gradually moved in the incompetent Grier, which is why Parcells blew his top, he had been the one of the personnel team to pick the groceries.

 

[RayClay]

Look at the drafts following 1996:

1997
1 (29) DB Chris Canty
2 (29) DL Brandon Mitchell
3 (1) RB Sedrick Shaw
3 (29) DB Chris Carter

1998
1 (18) RB Robert Edwards
1 (22) DB Tebucky Jones
2 (22) WR Tony Simmons
2 (24) TE Rod Rutledge
3 (20) DL Greg Spires
4 (23) DL Leonta Rheams
5 (22) LB Ron Merkerson
6 (23) RB Harold Shaw

1999
1 (28) LB Andy Katzenmoyer
2 (15) RB Kevin Faulk
3 (30) DB Tony George
6 (11) DB Marcus Washington
7 (21) QB Michael Bishop
7 (35) WR Sean Morey

Holy smokes...just a few good players out of all those picks.

Here are, in my view, some good picks made by BB:

2000
3 (14) JR Redmond - very useful player...key contributor on the SB-winning drive vs. the Rams
6 (33) Tom Brady - duh
7 (33) Patrick Pass - another very useful player

2001
1 (6) Richard Seymour - stud
2 (17) Matt Light - pro bowl left tackle for years

2002
1 (21) Daniel Graham - solid TE
2 (33) Deion Branch
4 (28) Jarvis Green - really solid DLineman
7 (42) David Givens - solid receiver

2003
1 (13) Ty Warren - outstanding Dlineman
2 (4) Eugene Wilson - looked like he was going to be special, but faded after a few really good years
4 (23) Asante Samuel - if only he had held on to the pick in the SB.......
5 (29) Dan Koppen - anchor for the OL
7 (25) Tully Banta-Cain - has had some good years...great for a 7th round pick

2004
1 (21) Vince Wilfork - stud
1 (32) Ben Watson - has become a really good NFL tight end

2005
1 (32) Logan Mankins - pro bowl G
3 (20) Ellis Hobbs - solid NFL player
3 (37) Nick Kaczur - don't love him, but he was very useful
4 (32) James Sanders - served us well here
7 (16) Matt Cassel - hard to believe...made the pro bowl as a QB for KC

2006
4 (21) Stephen Gostowski - about the only real positive thing I can say about that draft...thought Maroney (1/21) would be better than he turned out to be

2007
1 (24) Brandon Meriweather - bonehead, but made some big plays for the Pats....and that's about it from this draft...two not-so-good years in a row

2008
1 (10) Jerod Mayo - stud
5 (18) Matthew Slater - really solid player

2009
2 (2) Patrick Chung - good safety
2 (26) Sebastian Vollmer - solid T
3 (19) Brandon Tate - really good returner

2010
1 (27) Devin McCourty - good CB
2 (10) Rob Gronkowski - stud
2 (21) Jermaine Cunningham - I want to see another year before I give up on him
2 (30) Brandon Spikes - solid
3 (26) Taylor Price - still think he's going to be pretty good
4 (15) Aaron Hernandez - stud
5 (19) Zoltan Mesko - good punter

2011 - too early to tell

We know about the Bobby Grier era, that's why Parcells left.

 

[Dessalines]

Parcells didn't draft anybody when he was with New England, Bobby Grier bought the groceries, which is the major reason why Parcells left New England, so this thread has no meaning, it's just crap. And in those days, when Grier was doing the player selection out of college, the fans had just as many issues with whom the PATS picked as they do today. Just like Americans in general, football fans do not seem to have a good grasp of their history. They should, it would go a long way to eliminating threads like this one. It would also go a long way to putting the right people in government but that's for another forum.

 

[Rob0729]

Parcells didn't draft anybody when he was with New England, Bobby Grier bought the groceries, which is the major reason why Parcells left New England, so this thread has no meaning, it's just crap. And in those days, when Grier was doing the player selection out of college, the fans had just as many issues with whom the PATS picked as they do today. Just like Americans in general, football fans do not seem to have a good grasp of their history. They should, it would go a long way to eliminating threads like this one. It would also go a long way to putting the right people in government but that's for another forum.

I don't think that is true. I think towards the end, Bobby Greer won over Kraft and Kraft stepped in and gave Grier more control. I think if Parcells wasn't shopping for the groceries before then, this would have blown up earlier.

I do know for sure that Grier didn't have control of the draft prior to at least 1995. That was the year he was promoted to Director of Player Personnel. Prior to that he was Director of Scouting from 1993-1994 and a position coach (1981-1992). The question is how much control of the draft in 1995 did Grier have because I don't remember when in that year he was promoted.

 

[Kasmir]

Stanley Morgan more talented than Terry Glenn? Glenn made some of the best catches I have ever seen. He was like a much faster, better route running version of Brandon Lloyd.

Stanley Morgan was *far* better than Terry Glenn. He averaged nearly 20 ypc over his long career. (19.2 ypc) If he had played only 10 years he would have had the highest ypc of any receiver in NFL history. He was amazing and it was a privilege to watch him play.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Your giving Glenn a bad rap. Glenn got almost 1200 yards receiving as a ROOKIE(a record at the time)...He had insane hands, was very fast, made incredible catches, had great vertical, and put up very good numbers over his career. I actually think he underachieved a bit, his talent level was off the charts. He gave us the # 1 WR we desperately needed.

It's interesting to note that in a Dan Shaughnessy article before the 2001 season he noted that apart from Terry Glenn and Drew Bledsoe, the Patriots had no one of note on the team and that they'd have to rely on these 2 players for their success.

Drew Bledsoe got knocked out and Terry Glenn was thrown out - and they team had incredible success.

This isn't just to knock Shaughnessy's analytical skills (as I can't say I'm any better). But it is meant to show that have great stats (which Glenn had as a rookie) does not make you a great player. That's one aspect - but so is being a part of team where you can either lift others up or drag them down. There's a reason why Terrell Owens is watching football on TV this year and has gotten 1 offer to play - from the Chicago Fire. It's not because he can't ran routes or catch the ball (although no one is claiming he's still in his prime). Terry Glenn at pick #7 was a bit of a disappointment; not incredibly bad but certainly not what you hoped for picking that high.

I'll say this about some of the other draft picks - the Patriots had a lot of high draft picks in those years (#4, #1, #7) and so should have been hitting on those picks. They were good drafts to be sure - but not as great as this post makes them out to be. The Patriots hit on exactly 1 pick out of 25 after the 3rd round - that's way below average. They hit on all the first round picks and most of there second round picks and have 2 likely HOFers on that list (Law and Martin IMO). So they were definately overall very good; I just don't think they were great.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Stanley Morgan was *far* better than Terry Glenn. He averaged nearly 20 ypc over his long career. (19.2 ypc) If he had played only 10 years he would have had the highest ypc of any receiver in NFL history. He was amazing and it was a privilege to watch him play.

Easily the best receiver in the long haul for the Patriots. To compare Stanley Morgan to Terry Glenn is not very nice. Care to compare durability? Stanley Morgan started 164 of 169 games over his career. I don't want to even look up glass boy.

 

[captain stone]

Parcells didn't draft anybody when he was with New England, Bobby Grier bought the groceries, which is the major reason why Parcells left New England, so this thread has no meaning, it's just crap. And in those days, when Grier was doing the player selection out of college, the fans had just as many issues with whom the PATS picked as they do today. Just like Americans in general, football fans do not seem to have a good grasp of their history. They should, it would go a long way to eliminating threads like this one. It would also go a long way to putting the right people in government but that's for another forum.

Then why did you enter this thread, if it offends you so?

 

[Displaced - Fan]

1 (18) RB Robert Edwards

1 (28) LB Andy Katzenmoyer

Two guys that could've been great if it weren't for career ending injuries.

:bricks:

 

[jmt57]

It's interesting to note that in a Dan Shaughnessy article before the 2001 season he noted that apart from Terry Glenn and Drew Bledsoe, the Patriots had no one of note on the team and that they'd have to rely on these 2 players for their success.

Drew Bledsoe got knocked out and Terry Glenn was thrown out - and the team had incredible success.

I will readily (and shamefully) admit that I was one of those that was thinking the same way CHB was at that time. Before that season began I expected double-digit losses for that very same reason; after week two I figured the Pats would win at most three games, and probably less than that.

Perhaps that is part of why I now don't feel the sky is falling after a loss or two. If that makes me an unrealistic kool-aid drinking homer so be it. However, by the same token I also don't believe the team will go undefeated the rest of the way when they have one good game either.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Bledsoe: 1st overall pick.
McGinest: 4th overall pick.
Glenn: 7th overall pick.

I *hope* guys picked there produce and produce well.

Law was the only 1st round pick not at the top of the draft, but at least they went 1-for-1 on that pick.

Milloy and Johnson were great 2nd round picks and Slade was a stud through about midway in the '97 season, but the Pats went 50% with misses in Lee, Rucci (backup-caliber) and Brisby (had his rare moments).

Bruschi was the 3rd round steal, but was underused by Parcells, started seeing serious reps under Carroll, but didn't blossom until BB came along; His career took a while to get going. Martin was Gronk: The sure-fire 1st-round talent that slipped due to a major injury in college. To the Pats' credit, they took a chance on him and it paid off (mostly for other teams, though). With misses (or mediocrity) in Hitch****, Collier and Burch, the 40% hit rate in this round is probably about par for the course league-wide for 3rd round picks.

Troy Brown was the late-round steal a la Tom Brady, but even Brown was off and on the roster in those early years. By his 4th year, he was known mostly for his special teams play and that one crazy catch on his back in the Meadowlands in that 23-22 thriller in the season finale.

Those 4 years of Parcells-era drafts feature as many hits as misses in rounds 2 and 3 and almost nothing beyond that. For 1st round picks, 3 of the picks were made at the top of the round where misses should be rare no matter who is drafting. When all this is considered, I don't think these drafts were particularly better than the BB drafts.

Regards,
Chris