Bethel Johnson Traded

[PATSNUTme]

I gave you the numbers already. The signing bonus acceleration is all the Saints'. It costs us Sullivans' salary minus Bethel's salary + any bonus acceleration for Bethel.

Here's Bethel's numbers :

2006 500000.00
2007 546000.00

and Sullivan's again :

2006 689083.00
2007 901333.00
2008 1243583.00
2009 1455829.00

Miguel has Bethel's remaining SB at $700K so it will cost us about :

$700K + $700K - $500K = $900K approximately for 2006.

Well, excuuuuuuussse me! I must have beeen typing my post while you were typing yours. Yes, that must have been it, I always read every word of every thread before I post.

Oh yes, thanks for the info.

 

[PonyExpress]

According to my own ranking system, which you can take with a grain of salt if you wish, there were only 5 Defensive Tackles in the NFL who played regularly when healthy and were less productive than Jonathan Sullivan over the last two years. One of them is another uber-bust, Ryan Sims of KC. Lets see if BB can shine sh*t...

 

[Keegs]

Bethel sucks

I will be surprised if Sullivan doesn't play better here with the line that we have and Seymour's presence.

It should work, and if it doesn't, no biggie.

 

[fgssand]

Ha

Hmmmm...so if I even mention 4-3 again, will I be flamed again??

Seriously, if Sullivan can reunite with RS and contribute, this could be one heck of a deal and be a real steal. Of course he could also disappoint and be cut. As for Bethel, it is too bad he truned into Tony Simmons....I don't think he will ever be anything but fast.

 

[dryheat44]

iplus i would imagine the the pats are taking on a good amount of sullivans contract. .

Football doesn't work like baseball, where the Sox can trade a player and agree to pay X amount of his salary. They're on the hook for his salary each year he makes the team. No more, no less. His signing bonus has been paid already.

 

[dryheat44]

Hmmmm...so if I even mention 4-3 again, will I be flamed again??

Almost certainly.

 

[PWRxWLF]

Hmmmm...so if I even mention 4-3 again, will I be flamed again??

It's funny. A few months back, I also mentioned in a thread that the way things have been going for the pats, it could be a sign for more 4-3 to come. I also got flamed. Guess we're just dumbasses.

 

[jimmyjames]

I fully gree with you about Bethel Johnson.

Perhaps if they gave Bethel more of a chance, and called the type of play7s he can excel at, deep post patterns where his speed geets him behind the safeties and he can aCELERATE AT FULLSPEED....

Instead,they kept sending him on sideline fly patterns, which has proventobe Brady's weakes passing situation...and almost impossible to complete...where the speed receiver has to give ground, and speed, to stay in bounds.

Deep Post patterns were rarely called for Bethel...

Watch the Saints explode him on those routes.

Because I am sure they never ran any other kind of play for him WHEN THEY PRACTICED EVERY F******* DAY.

 

[PonyExpress]

Hmmmm...so if I even mention 4-3 again, will I be flamed again??

I disagree. I think with the growing number of 3-4 teams, these 6'3'', 315 lb players are getting harder to come by. If you can stock one on the cheap for a few years, especially one who has great potential and will be mentored by his college friend Seymour, I think it's a gamble worth taking. They would have cut Bethel anyway, so there is no loss. If the PAts were considering 4-3 they would have done it last year after the Pittsburgh game when the 4 man line dominated. They didn't, showing the discipline to stck to their scheme despite the defensive collapse that ensued. They will stick with it now. I see some of these other 3-4 teams going away from it soon anyway. Once Parcells retires, and Romeo flames out in Cleveland, and Nolan gets the axe in SF, 3-4 will be trashed again around the league and the Pats will get the pick of the litter...

 

[patsox23]

It's funny. A few months back, I also mentioned in a thread that the way things have been going for the pats, it could be a sign for more 4-3 to come. I also got flamed. Guess we're just dumbasses.

This trade has nothing to do with a 4-3. The Patriots play a base 3-4, mixing in 4-3 at times. So kindly take your newfound ****iness elsewhere. This trade doesn't change a thing.

 

[pats1]

I'm STUNNED that anyone here thinks this is a bad deal for the Patriots. CLEARLY, from having just traded for him, BB and Pioli thought well of the guy back in 2001. Sure he's been a bust in N.O. and that is certainly a concern, but:

A) Bethel's spot wasn't secure anyway (and I LIKE Bethel)

B) the aspect of Seymour's presence and influence simply cannot be undersold

It's possible Bethel would've been dumped for a 5th rounder. He may have been released. So, while I too am sad to see that chapter close, I'm more than enthused about the possibility of Johnathan Sullivan blossoming in Foxboro.

Seriously, how can you people have a problem with this move???

Then please tell me why Beoili would intentionally make a move, or even make a move without thinking it through, that would compromise the future success of the team. Give me a break.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Why are folks hung up on fat, lazy Sullie's lack of productivity in a 4-3? He's here at a very cheap price, trade and cap wise, to play in a 3-4 as a backup NT, a guy with bulk who holds the center and keeps the center and guards off the LBs in our 3-4.

Obviously BB felt that he'd be better suited to playing a 3-4 than 4-3 and was willing to jettison WR tease who still 'did not get it' regarding what the coaches here wanted from him. Bethel's style did not mesh with BB's. After you try and try with an employee and get the same non-results, it's time to move on. Bethel had no value here. Forget the faux OC doubletalk nonsense written previously about deep post routes and Brady's alleged weaknesses that somehow some QB in NO will readily overcome. Fact is, Bethel flat out could not be relied upon as a backup WR because of his self imposed route running limitations. Therefore we could not afford to waste his roster spot, because we need 3rd & 4th WRs who can play for a game or 2 running all kinds of routes if/when the 1 & 2 WRs get injured. Bethel only showed flashes and no sign whatsoever of that consistency and flexibility over the 3 years here and was just whining to Felgie about it this 4th season.

Even if Sully remains the stump that he's been despite his new role and new environs, we simply paid for him with a guy we woulda cut anyway. Same for New Orleans. Neither team was going to get anyone really valuable for their castoffs so they each made the best of it.

Me, I sincerely I wish Bethel success in his new job.

 

[PatsSaintsSox]

i got my new madden team

 

[Pats726]

ya, it's definitely a great trade especially since Bethel just wasn't fitting in with the team


Bethel's highlights as a Pat.....

1.) incredible catch vs. SEA
2.) kickoff return for TD at IND right before halftime
3.) long playoff TD vs. TEN
4.) great third down catch and run to allow an eventual TD drive to continue vs. TEN
5.) long bomb TD at ATL

Fo not forget the opening kickoff against Cleve..in 04...game gone with his TD!!

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

People who say this is a bad trade don't see two things:

1. Bethel has "attitude" issues. And he made them public. BB has punished him before (keeping him inactive). And BB obviously got sick of it.
2. What the Pats will ask Sullivan to do (gap-2) is completely different than what the Saints wanted Sullivan to do.


Furthermore,
Its obvious with the drafting of our 3rd round pick that the Pats offensive base will be 2-TE. Occasionally, on 3rd and long, we'll bring in Troy Brown as a 3rd-WR possession specialist.
And as of now, our 5 WR are Branch, Caldwell, Brown, Jackson, Bam Childress

 

[PWRxWLF]

This trade has nothing to do with a 4-3. The Patriots play a base 3-4, mixing in 4-3 at times. So kindly take your newfound ****iness elsewhere. This trade doesn't change a thing.

How could it not be a sign of something else? Gimme a break. If BB has more depth on the DL and more versatility on the DL, you're trying to tell me he wont utilize different packages? Dont be an idiot. When has Belichick ever just stuck with just one alignment? We mix up sooo much, that there is no way (if Sullivan gets the ball rolling) that BB wont find a way to get him on the field to create mismatches. You play with whatever your players give you. No one ever said (PATS ARE SWITCHING TO A 4-3!!!!) We were only saying it could be a sign of more 4-3 to come. I just don't get it. If making a trade doesnt change a thing, then why the hell would you make the trade?

 

[patsox23]

Then please tell me why Beoili would intentionally make a move, or even make a move without thinking it through, that would compromise the future success of the team. Give me a break.

Not sure what you're getting at. Please explain. If you mean that BB and Pioli weren't ALSO trying to help the team with the Bethel pick, I'd say, of course not. But they'll take a chance on a guy with elite speed but questionable production EVERYWHERE except round one. Round one they do not F around. And, from everything we've read/heard, they had interest in Sullivan in round one.

So logic tells us that, however Sulli/Bethel turned out since the draft, the PAtriots braintrust had more faith in Sulli as a "Sure thing" in their system than the calculated risk they took on Bethel in round 2.

 

[fgssand]

I disagree. I think with the growing number of 3-4 teams, these 6'3'', 315 lb players are getting harder to come by. If you can stock one on the cheap for a few years, especially one who has great potential and will be mentored by his college friend Seymour, I think it's a gamble worth taking. They would have cut Bethel anyway, so there is no loss. If the PAts were considering 4-3 they would have done it last year after the Pittsburgh game when the 4 man line dominated. They didn't, showing the discipline to stck to their scheme despite the defensive collapse that ensued. They will stick with it now. I see some of these other 3-4 teams going away from it soon anyway. Once Parcells retires, and Romeo flames out in Cleveland, and Nolan gets the axe in SF, 3-4 will be trashed again around the league and the Pats will get the pick of the litter...

Last year was last year...Willie Mcg was on the team then. I only mention it because I happened to consider that maybe, based on the increased number of 3-4 teams it is very harder than ever before to get 3-4 LB's, MAYBE the Pats could do it, easily, given the all #1 D line. I was flamed for that statement.

This additon, if he can wake up, would only add one brick to that wall. I do not think it will happen, I never did - but, given one injury at LB, they are well prepared to do so.

 

[AllabouttheVinces]

WHat makes you think there will NOT be a trade for a WR before camp???

I agree. I fully expect there will be a trade or FA pickup before camp. Last year it was David Terrell and Andre Davis. But there's not much out there today, and picking up Lelie or Stallworth would be expensive. I think the Pats will pick up someone, but will that guy be better than using Mills or Thomas as an H-Back slot receiver? Or splitting out Watson? I look for multiple TE packages.

 

[PonyExpress]

Last year was last year...Willie Mcg was on the team then. I only mention it because I happened to consider that maybe, based on the increased number of 3-4 teams it is very harder than ever before to get 3-4 LB's, MAYBE the Pats could do it, easily, given the all #1 D line. I was flamed for that statement.

This additon, if he can wake up, would only add one brick to that wall. I do not think it will happen, I never did - but, given one injury at LB, they are well prepared to do so.

I am not at all trashing your idea. My friend brings it up all the time. But I recall last year some talk from Wilfork, where he revealed that alot of the players wanted to got to the 4-3 when the D started breaking down in the first half of the season. Especially the D-line guys, who wanted to get after the QB. But despite the collapse of the D, BB stuck to the 3-4, with everything falling apart around him. This indicates to what degree BB believes in his scheme...He is married to it now, I think, for the long haul...