Belichick ("not a tremendous downside"), Ebner on failed onsides kick

[TheBostonStraggler]

My gut tell me this was, in part, BB and staff wanting to put some tape out there. It also, in part I suspect, due to a bit of arrogance that the game was headed to a very likely victory.

You take the good with the bad. Sometimes I don't like when BB/the Patriots don't play the clock percentages and I don't like this play. Things are going pretty damn well thus far, it seems counter intuitive to try a play outside the norm. But this is how BB and staff approach the game so it is what it is. It's hard to argue with the overall results.

Of course the questionable nature of this play is severely amplified by the loss and an improbable loss at that. 3 TDs/21 non offense points??? You gotta be friggin kidding me. Philly shouldn't even be scoring 21 much less 21 just on STs and a 99yd Int. If not for that #$@! this one play is barely a conversation.

I disagree with the play but in general it is of little importance. To me the BFD from this game is the OL. While the Run D had some breakdowns, if not for that one improbable run the overall performance was alright. Brady made a few questionable choices/passes but take that one Int back and the performance is good. Some drops by the receivers but i don't expect that on a routine basis when Gronk and Edelman return. Overall the D didn't allow Philly to do much. But, IMHO, the OL is a consistent and growing concern. That unit is much healthier now yet it looks like continued crap too often. Bottom line: the D will be ok, the passing game will be ok, STs will be ok. But that OL play could halt the high level, SB bound passing effectiveness, cause the D to be on the field more often, and it could be the undoing of what continues to be (IMHO) a team that is going to take it through to the SB.

 

[RayClay]

Agreed, and when someone reminded us what the difference in yardage was, the playcall didn't seem to be quite as dramatic as I remember it. That said, I believe there are certain things that you don't mess with, and momentum is one of them.

Not meaning to pile on top of the commentator's cheesy comments about "getting mo back," but I do believe that the play was more important than just 20 lost yards. It seemed to piss the Eagles and their coaches off, and I believe that it was perceived that we were starting to try and rub it in. As we often see in football, that switch in momentum gave them new life, and they promptly took advantage of it.

Analytics aside, it's my opinion that an old school coach like Belichick knows better than to try and get cute in that kind of situation, but I rarely question the coach.

forget the score, do you really think the Patriots had momentum? did they look like the fresher team? were they playing with more precision, more emotion? Were they passing and running consistently?

Or did they take advantage of a team that was physically outplaying them, but got stopped by a lot of stupid penalties?

I think the latter. After all, if we had such great momentum, why couldn't we expand on a 14 point lead? It's not like the pooch kick made us give the 14 points back.

BB knows the shape of his team and despite the stupid penalties, the eagles were fired up. The Pats were dragging ass and BB saw a chance to steal a win by going up 3 TDs, a position where they can play poorly and still win. He coaches to win that game, based on how those two teams look that day.

 

[supafly]

forget the score, do you really think the Patriots had momentum? did they look like the fresher team? were they playing with more precision, more emotion? Were they passing and running consistently?

Or did they take advantage of a team that was physically outplaying them, but got stopped by a lot of stupid penalties?

I think the latter. After all, if we had such great momentum, why couldn't we expand on a 14 point lead? It's not like the pooch kick made us give the 14 points back.

BB knows the shape of his team and despite the stupid penalties, the eagles were fired up. The Pats were dragging ass and BB saw a chance to steal a win by going up 3 TDs, a position where they can play poorly and still win. He coaches to win that game, based on how those two teams look that day.

I respectfully disagree here. They were up 14-0, despite any penalties or whatever. We scored 2 touchdowns. They had scored nothing.

As a matter of fact, if Belichick truly believed in your theory that they were dragging ass and getting outplayed even while being up 14-0, then it makes it even dumber to risk losing that momentum. After all, the team has never lost at home when leading at the half.

You can say whatever you want, but the Eagles looked like a much different team after that, and went on to ride that momentum by scoring the next 35 points. Do I think that was the root of all the issues? Of course not, but it was the catalyst that allowed them to build off of the momentum and make it a game again at 14-7.

 

[RobertWeathers]

forget the score, do you really think the Patriots had momentum? did they look like the fresher team? were they playing with more precision, more emotion? Were they passing and running consistently?

Or did they take advantage of a team that was physically outplaying them, but got stopped by a lot of stupid penalties?

I think the latter. After all, if we had such great momentum, why couldn't we expand on a 14 point lead? It's not like the pooch kick made us give the 14 points back.

BB knows the shape of his team and despite the stupid penalties, the eagles were fired up. The Pats were dragging ass and BB saw a chance to steal a win by going up 3 TDs, a position where they can play poorly and still win. He coaches to win that game, based on how those two teams look that day.

They had just completed back-to-back 80 yard drives to go up 14-0.

In their 4 previous drives, the Iggles punted all 4 times.

If that isn't momentum in favor of the Patriots then I don't know what is.

 

[sieglo]

I didn't see anyone whining when we tried and successfully recovered an onside kick up 7-0 in the Redskins game. Where was all the indignation then? Hypocrites.

I thought it was a dumb call at the time and I said so, regardless of the positive result.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Well, he has a point. First, it's risk:reward. It's more likely than not we will not recover the ball, but the odds are worth trying it if it's executed right and we get some luck. If we get it, he's a genius.

Of course everyone is second guessing since we lost the game AND we had the audacity to try something out of the box AND lost a grand total of 20 yards of field position. 20 yards!!! Darn that Belichick, throwing the game away with his insane gambles. If only the Eagles started that drive on their own 20 instead of their own 40, we would have won this game by eleven touchdowns.

There was absolutely nothing genius about that play call. Rather we recovered it or not. In fact, it was the complete opposite of genius. It was idiotic. I didn't like the playcall when we did it against the skins but since we recovered it I had no real reason to complain.

 

[IllegalContact]

special teams killed this team 2 weeks in a row

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

I didn't see anyone whining when we tried and successfully recovered an onside kick up 7-0 in the Redskins game. Where was all the indignation then? Hypocrites.

BB saw something that made the attempt worthwhile. Clearly we recovered an attempt later as well. I don't think this is why we lost. We lost because of the blocked punt for TD and the pick 6 which should have given us atleast 3 pts but cost us 7. Those 2 things combined is a 17 pt swing.

Why would anyone whine if we recover? It makes no sense. You can not like the playcall, but since everything worked out for us it would make no sense to get mad and complain. Its like if brady makes a terrible throw into triple coverage and almost gets picked but the guy drops it. You can call the throw stupid, but since it worked out for us there would be no need to get mad and complain.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Why would anyone whine if we recover? It makes no sense. You can not like the playcall, but since everything worked out for us it would make no sense to get mad and complain.

Because if a decision is stupid or arrogant or disrespectful it is all of those things whether the play works or not. So only complaining if the play fails but not saying anything if the play succeeds is being massively hypocritical.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Because if a decision is stupid or arrogant or disrespectful it is all of those things whether the play works or not. So only complaining if the play fails but not saying anything if the place exceeds is being massively hypocritical.

I agree, but if it works there is no reason to get mad or complain. Why would I be mad or complain if everything worked in our favor? Its like a ref making a terrible call but it works out for us. I can say the ref missed the call but I won't be mad. I can only speak for myself but I didn't like the call the last time when it worked, and I didn't like it this time. So there is absolutely nothing hypocritical going on from my side.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Hard to complain given their rate of success on trick plays. I don't see that call at that time as hubris in any way, the opposite in fact, I see it as trying to put an opponent away.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You see, this is one reason I love that the Patriots' leadership is so clear. If it's related to football, then Belichick is in charge. I think it's absolutely idiotic to be calling for jobs here, considering that Belichick clearly knew that there were plays where Ebner would be kicking the ball and obviously didn't veto the idea.

They should fire Judge and sign the Panthers special teams coach, their 12-0.

 

[archstanton543]

I agree, but if it works there is no reason to get mad or complain.

Think of it this way. You're teaching your kid to parallel park the car and after listening to your instructions drives really fast, pulls the e-brake and slides perfectly into the spot. By your logic, you shouldn't complain because he parked the car in the designated spot.

 

[Kontradiction]

Some of you have never heard of momentum before.

 

[denverpatsfan]

It wasn't the reason they lost the game but I didn't like the call one bit. I am still completely mystified as to why it was tried. Wouldn't you save that play for another type of situation?

 

[Jimke]

That call was absolutely terrible, and I don't care what anyone says.

We're up 14-0, with all of the momentum, and PHI hasn't done a damn thing to that point. Instead of kicking it deep like usual, you screw around with a low percentage odds (about 10-12%) play and give them good field position and a much higher chance to score. It's just stupid, and Belichick knows that, even if he didn't admit it. It's hard to imagine him making that same decision again under the same circumstances.

This play was thumbing your nose at your opponent and they responded like a prideful team
should by beating the crap out of us. Forget the 35 to 28 final score, the game was over when
the score became 35 to 14.
With regard to Belichick, he will make the same decision again. He did the same thing a couple
of home games previously. Luckily, they did win that game.

 

[Galeb]

I really disliked the call at the time, but after BB's description and reading others' opinions, I have changed my stance somewhat. I think execution was a huge factor in that Ebner should have kicked it a little longer. I now think that it's good to sometimes get to practice this kind of thing live, to get experience for when it is really needed.

The arrogance and disrespectful arguments are silly. In a competitive environment, it is each teams duty to do whatever they can, within the rules, to win. That's what they're paid to do. BB and Chip Kelly have great respect for each other. I'm pretty sure they hugged at the handshake.

 

[luuked]

This play was thumbing your nose at your opponent and they responded like a prideful team
should by beating the crap out of us. Forget the 35 to 28 final score, the game was over when
the score became 35 to 14.
With regard to Belichick, he will make the same decision again. He did the same thing a couple
of home games previously. Luckily, they did win that game.

So you are telling me that the last two games where the Eagles were blown out of stadiums, one of which was viewable nationwide on Thanksgiving didn't hurt their pride but a drop kick that gave them a little bit of better field position suddenly made them be like "**** them for embarrassing us"?

This entire narrative of disrespect or arrogance is among the stupidest things I have read in a while. Similarly the dropkick didnt give them any damn momentum because just shortly after they found themselves at a 3rd & 10. The ensuing pass that traveled for 20 yards gave them that momentum (or confidence or whatever u want to call it). They didnt have a short field, they still marched down 60 yards.

The dropkick is one giant red herring that a lot of people here cant get over.

 

[PatsDeb]

I respectfully disagree here. They were up 14-0, despite any penalties or whatever. We scored 2 touchdowns. They had scored nothing.

As a matter of fact, if Belichick truly believed in your theory that they were dragging ass and getting outplayed even while being up 14-0, then it makes it even dumber to risk losing that momentum. After all, the team has never lost at home when leading at the half.

You can say whatever you want, but the Eagles looked like a much different team after that, and went on to ride that momentum by scoring the next 35 points. Do I think that was the root of all the issues? Of course not, but it was the catalyst that allowed them to build off of the momentum and make it a game again at 14-7.

Totally agree. The Eagles were NOT fired up or hungry prior to that play. They were playing lousy and the Pats were playing methodically in their reduced circumstances, driving down the field for two TDs. Kick off and it's just as likely as before the D will get a stop before they get into FG range, but no, we have to do something stupid to show them how pathetic they are. Who looked pathetic 35 unanswered points later? That would be US.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Totally agree. The Eagles were NOT fired up or hungry prior to that play.

Apparently they weren't after it either, given that they threw a dink pass for 6 yards and then got stuffed for a 6 yard loss on a run, bringing up 3rd-and-10. Which NE promptly choked and gave up 20 yards on. If anything got them "fired up" it was that.