Belichick ("not a tremendous downside"), Ebner on failed onsides kick

[Kontradiction]

I really don't see how you can say momentum has anything to do with a player missing a routine block on a punt. Momentum exists, but so do boneheaded self-inflicting errors.

And both often occur at the same time. Usually in a loss. But because the team made mistakes doesn't mean we should excuse a piss poor decision on special teams that essentially woke the Eagles up from their slumber. How anyone can deny the momentum aspect of this is mind-boggling to me. They're either doing it out of misplaced homerism or they really haven't played competitive sports in many years and forgot what it feels like when momentum shifts. Either way, the results are right there. Before that, the Eagles sleepwalked through the game and were down 14-0. After that, the score was 35-14 with the Patriots scrambling for a comeback.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

And both often occur at the same time. Usually in a loss. But because the team made mistakes doesn't mean we should excuse a piss poor decision on special teams that essentially woke the Eagles up from their slumber. How anyone can deny the momentum aspect of this is mind-boggling to me.

Ok let's stop it right here, cause that's not what I'm saying nor is it what I think others are saying. The momentum aspect does exist. I just don't think Grissom was sitting there thinking "Man I sure wish we hadn't tried and failed that onside ki--whoaWHOAOHHSHITIMISSEDABLOCK!!!"

Momentum had no effect on a missed block on the punting team, IMO. You could MAYBE argue that the ensuing 99 yard pick-six and punt return for a TD were caused partly by momentum. MAYBE. But if momentum were that great of a factor to cause all these big plays, then you'd think that Brady 30+(or however many) yard catch would've lead to points. The Patriots had momentum up until that. Go figure, execution by the team had more to do with that drive ending in an interception than momentum did.

 

[Kontradiction]

Ok let's stop it right here, cause that's not what I'm saying nor is it what I think others are saying. The momentum aspect does exist. I just don't think Grissom was sitting there thinking "Man I sure wish we hadn't tried and failed that onside ki--whoaWHOAOHHSHITIMISSEDABLOCK!!!"

Momentum had no effect on a missed block on the punting team, IMO. You could MAYBE argue that the ensuing 99 yard pick-six and punt return for a TD were caused partly by momentum. MAYBE. But if momentum were that great of a factor to cause all these big plays, then you'd think that Brady 30+(or however many) yard catch would've lead to points. The Patriots had momentum up until that. Go figure, execution by the team had more to do with that drive ending in an interception than momentum did.

Momentum has everything to do with how hard the Eagles played before that and how hard they played after that. Nobody is denying the Patriots missed opportunities. Missed opportunities and losing momentum in sports are not mutually exclusive. Often they happen in tandem, especially during a loss. But if you're saying that you couldn't literally see a team the Pats were walking all over wake up after that unnecessary pooch kick, then I don't know what to tell you. They woke up to the tune of 35 unanswered points. Once again, the results speak for themselves.

 

[bbobbo]

this thread seems to be the perfect candidate for filing in the "agree to disagree" category.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

this thread seems to be the perfect candidate for filing in the "agree to disagree" category.

Yea

 

[RayClay]

Momentum has everything to do with how hard the Eagles played before that and how hard they played after that. Nobody is denying the Patriots missed opportunities. Missed opportunities and losing momentum in sports are not mutually exclusive. Often they happen in tandem, especially during a loss. But if you're saying that you couldn't literally see a team the Pats were walking all over wake up after that unnecessary pooch kick, then I don't know what to tell you. They woke up to the tune of 35 unanswered points. Once again, the results speak for themselves.

No, lack of penalty flags did. The eagles were running through us aat will and had a lot of penalty flags. Because they started at their own 40 instead of their 0wn 20-30 then turned into supermen is a ridiculous scenario.

 

[Kontradiction]

No, lack of penalty flags did. The eagles were running through us aat will and had a lot of penalty flags. Because they started at their own 40 instead of their 0wn 20-30 then turned into supermen is a ridiculous scenario.

Where they started has nothing to do with a momentum shift gained by the Pats trying to get cute, Ray. If you think the pooch kick was such a good idea, ask yourself why we don't see something like that all the time when a team is up multiple scores. You could see the difference after that. They were asleep at the wheel before it happened and after it happened, they had hung 35 unanswered on us. Once again, a momentum swing and mistakes are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Sciz]

If you think the pooch kick was such a good idea, ask yourself why we don't see something like that all the time when a team is up multiple scores.

It happens about as often as you see a team line up to return a kick and leave a giant hole with nobody to recover the ball, almost never. This wasn't Belichick calling the Ebner play for the hell of it. It was a calculated call in response to an unorthodox alignment. You can't ignore the special circumstance just because it makes it easier to appeal to conventional wisdom.

 

[Kontradiction]

It happens about as often as you see a team line up to return a kick and leave a giant hole with nobody to recover the ball, almost never. This wasn't Belichick calling the Ebner play for the hell of it. It was a calculated call in response to an unorthodox alignment. You can't ignore the special circumstance just because it makes it easier to appeal to conventional wisdom.

There was nothing calculated about it. They were facing a flat team that was on the ropes. Don't get cute. Kick it off normally, put your defense on the field, and try to crush their hopes before halftime. Since you and others are arguing against the "momentum" aspect of this, I'll pose two questions:

1. Do you or do you not believe that momentum exists in sports?

2. If you do believe it does, what, in your opinion, can spike a change in momentum if not that pooch kick?

 

[RayClay]

Where they started has nothing to do with a momentum shift gained by the Pats trying to get cute, Ray. If you think the pooch kick was such a good idea, ask yourself why we don't see something like that all the time when a team is up multiple scores. You could see the difference after that. They were asleep at the wheel before it happened and after it happened, they had hung 35 unanswered on us. Once again, a momentum swing and mistakes are not mutually exclusive.

If they recovered and scored a touchdown and went up by three touchdowns so Brady absolutely wouldn't be tempted to force into triple coverage and throw a pick six? Would it still have been a bad idea?

You're assuming a 14 point lead with the other team starting between the twenty and forty would be unbeatable, while a 14 point lead with the other team starting from their own 41 means we're doomed.

I don't think that's a logical assumption.

 

[RayClay]

There was nothing calculated about it. They were facing a flat team that was on the ropes. Don't get cute. Kick it off normally, put your defense on the field, and try to crush their hopes before halftime. Since you and others are arguing against the "momentum" aspect of this, I'll pose two questions:

1. Do you or do you not believe that momentum exists in sports?

2. If you do believe it does, what, in your opinion, can spike a change in momentum if not that pooch kick?

No, I don't believe a beat up, injured, tired team suddenly is fresh as lettuce because they didn't take a shot at a TD. I do believe a 3 touchdown lead makes it a lot easier for both offense and defense.