Cool Link Bedard’s magnum opus

[Huckleberry1]

That was Wickersham's version of what happened. But the timeline provided by Lynch directly contradicts this. Lynch said he called asking to trade for Brady the prior year, and Belichick laughed at him. A year later, he called again and Belichick called him back, that's when Garoppolo was traded. One would think that a GM who "wanted" something to happen wpuldn't laugh in the facer of his trading partner, unless he was using it for leverage. But... then nothing happened for many months after that. So I fail to see how BB "wanted" to trade Brady.

I mean, I know everyone thought that because this is what Wickersham reported, but then Lynch gave an entirely different story and different timeline for what happened. And even Wickersham had to go back and rewrite the saga.

The claim that Belichick wanted to trade Brady and keep Garrapolo has been debunked many times, but they keep pretending it’s true and trotting it out there nonetheless.

 

[upstater1]

LOL, the defense doesn't look "almost identical to the Belichick Pats of 2023." This year's version looks, and is, far worse with essentially the same personnel.

A huge upgrade at QB this year, but a worse OL and a much worse defense, even with the addition of Gonzalez.

 

[upstater1]

Having been a fan since '69. have seen bad times, really bad times and really really bad times. In the current situation there is room for optimism, no sure how you can judge this team considering the lack of talent... the cupboard was bare when BB left and despite leaving $30+ million on the table they did not do much to improve it.. then there is the drafting of Polk and Baker, both of whom pooped the bed.
Replacing Wolf and taking a look at the OC and DC coordinators may help make this team better.
Next year there is something like $130 million of cap room, if they choose to make upgrades along with a better draft there is room for optimism.
Do not believe Mr. Kraft is happy the way this team trended this year..

The problem I see is a basic lack of common sense in the play-calling and game management.

3rd and inches late in the 4th qtr you have to call a timeout when the team breaks the huddle with 5 seconds left on the play clock. Going back to 3rd and 6, and then 4th and 6 and punting when you're 2 scores down is just horrible game management.

Then when you DO get the ball back, your OC decides to run the ball on 3rd and short when you're 2 scores down and there are 3 minutes left. A run for a loss!

It's this kind of brainless game management that just drives us nuts.

And I think it's a sign that the coaching staff is not up to it. AVP may design things well for Maye and that is valuable. But long term, this kind of coaching is going to cause a lot of losses. As for Covington and the defensive design, holy--- it is bad.

 

[DarrylS]

The problem I see is a basic lack of common sense in the play-calling and game management.

3rd and inches late in the 4th qtr you have to call a timeout when the team breaks the huddle with 5 seconds left on the play clock. Going back to 3rd and 6, and then 4th and 6 and punting when you're 2 scores down is just horrible game management.

Then when you DO get the ball back, your OC decides to run the ball on 3rd and short when you're 2 scores down and there are 3 minutes left. A run for a loss!

It's this kind of brainless game management that just drives us nuts.

And I think it's a sign that the coaching staff is not up to it. AVP may design things well for Maye and that is valuable. But long term, this kind of coaching is going to cause a lot of losses. As for Covington and the defensive design, holy--- it is bad.

Don't disagree, but a lot has to do with the OC and DC as well as with whoever is in Mayo's ear, we watched Darnold and Smith of the NYJ struggle due to the many changes in O coordinators and coaching staff now they are doing much better.
Don't forget about the backwards pass/fumble..
No effort to exonerate Mayo, but his supporting cast from the front office to his coordinators suck.. If I remember correctly there were efforts to do something different particularly with the OC however some of the candidates balked at coming here. The Pats "settled" on AVP, that is not good enough for this fan.
It also comes down to attracting high level talent with the $130 million dollars in cap space next year.. if they suck at that again, probably will join the detractors of Mayo et al.

 

[The Gr8est]

The turning point was when BB wanted to trade TB to SF and stay with Jimmy G. RK had two options then. Agree to the trade or fire BB and keep TB. He tried the band aid approach. That was the beginning of the end.

Tom Brady’s father was long saying Tom’s stay in New England would end badly.

He knew his son.

 

[signbabybrady]

You're placing far too much value on the HC. If what you say is true than why do the Mayo Pats of 2024 look almost identical to the Belichick Pats of 2023? It's about the players first and foremost.

IMO despite a far better QB they look way worse this year than last year. Obviously the record is pretty much the same but the D was much better last year. The OL sucked last year but not this bad. Offensive skill positions other than Q probably about the same both years. Coaching not even close.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Did Thunder, Wolfe and Groh do enough to field a complete team? No

Did Mayo and his coaching staff do enough to win more than 3 games? No

Who do you keep and who do you fire?

All of them

 

[50-yard-line]

I hope you don’t actually believe this drivel.
Brady took a loser Franchise with a 5-11 record the year before and beat Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, and Patrick Mahomes to win a super bowl at age 43.

What’s belichick’s record without Brady as his QB?

Not to play this game again...but Brady took a franchise with TWO 1500-yard WRs the previous year, a pair of solid TE;s, stacked with 1st-round draft picks across O and D, added Antonio Brown, Gronk, and Fournette, and didn't throw 30 picks like his predecessor (Winston).

As soon as Brady went to Tampa, lots of people said "Super Bowl," including me. That team was a smart QB away. They were loaded with talent, O and D.

The Patriots post-2019 were mega-levels below Tampa in talent, and neither Gronk nor AB were coming back here.

 

[Ring 6]

Having been a fan since '69. have seen bad times, really bad times and really really bad times. In the current situation there is room for optimism, no sure how you can judge this team considering the lack of talent... the cupboard was bare when BB left and despite leaving $30+ million on the table they did not do much to improve it.. then there is the drafting of Polk and Baker, both of whom pooped the bed.
Replacing Wolf and taking a look at the OC and DC coordinators may help make this team better.
Next year there is something like $130 million of cap room, if they choose to make upgrades along with a better draft there is room for optimism.
Do not believe Mr. Kraft is happy the way this team trended this year..

There really haven’t been times much worse than this.

I’m not sure what your reason for optimism is. You say there is no talent and that makes you optimistic? Then you talk about mass firings being need and that makes you optimistic? Having a lot of cap room because you’ve spent 2 years not spending it doesn’t seem like a reason for optimism to me it sounds more like evidence we aren’t trying.

 

[The Gr8est]

Mayo is not getting fired this season.

The team would turn on the Krafts.

Did the team turn on the Krafts when he fired Carroll and hired BB?

 

[signbabybrady]

There really haven’t been times much worse than this.

I’m not sure what your reason for optimism is. You say there is no talent and that makes you optimistic? Then you talk about mass firings being need and that makes you optimistic? Having a lot of cap room because you’ve spent 2 years not spending it doesn’t seem like a reason for optimism to me it sounds more like evidence we aren’t trying.

Maye is the reason for optimism. Obviously he's not enough by himself but without the QB even a stacked roster and coaching staff rarely overcomes it.

With the roster and coaching staff as bad as it looks it won't be an instant fix might take a couple seasons to climb the ladder and fix the other holes but if Maye is as good as we hope then that's enough to be optimistic about.

 

[upstater1]

Did the team turn on the Krafts when he fired Carroll and hired BB?

It was entirely the opposite of that.

First off, Belichick was the major force on defense in 1996 when they turned things around from 6-10 and went to the Super Bowl. It certainly wasn't Al Groh, and it's pretty easy to understand that. So the D players who were still here (McGinest, Law, Milloy, Brusch, etc.) immediately got with the program. Add player Belichick knew like Pleasant, Phifer, etc., and you had a good mix of solid vets that let the rookies know how it was going to be done.

Pete Carroll lost the respect of a lot of players. Bledsoe and Terry Glenn in particular openly (and on camera) humiliated Pete when Pete made so many of his play calling blunders. I remember the Patriots were making a comeback and driving downfield as the opponent was just reeling -- and Pete called a timeout. Bledsoe absolutely reamed him on the sidelines. I'm not saying Glenn did a good thing by laughing at Carroll and refusing his instructions as he lined up, but it showed that Carroll had absolutely lost the team.

 

[upstater1]

Maye is the reason for optimism. Obviously he's not enough by himself but without the QB even a stacked roster and coaching staff rarely overcomes it.

With the roster and coaching staff as bad as it looks it won't be an instant fix might take a couple seasons to climb the ladder and fix the other holes but if Maye is as good as we hope then that's enough to be optimistic about.

In the NFL you can get to the playoffs with a good coach, a good QB and marginal talent. You just can't win it all.

So, improve the coaching, and this team starts competing.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Pete Carroll lost the respect of a lot of players. Bledsoe and Terry Glenn in particular openly (and on camera) humiliated Pete when Pete made so many of his play calling blunders.

Bledsoe recently said on Edelman’s podcast that he liked Carroll and didn’t have a problem with him.

However, he did say although there were players that weren’t a fan of his approach, he doesn’t blame Carroll for their downfall. It was injuries, poor personnel moves and in Bledsoe words “poor drafts”.

 

[upstater1]

Bledsoe recently said on Edelman’s podcast that he liked Carroll and didn’t have a problem with him.

However, he did say although there were players that weren’t a fan of his approach, he doesn’t blame Carroll for their downfall. It was injuries, poor personnel moves and in Bledsoe words “poor drafts”.

I remember Drew cursing him out openly coming off the field. It was bad. As bad as Pete got in Seattle from key players like Richard Seymour and Marshawn Lynch.

Many years after the fact, players are loathe to denigrate others, former oaches. Bledsoe would not be expected to blast Carroll so many years later.

But as for poor drafts, we all thought those were poor drafts and we killed Grier for it. In fact, when Belichick got to New England, people said in 2001 that it was the worse collection of talent in the NFL.

But then you look back at Grier's drafts and these are the players that he grabbed (4 of them made the Pro Bowl):

Terry Glenn
Lawyer Milloy
Tedy Bruschi
Brandon Mitchell
Greg Spires
Robert Edwards
Tebucky Jones
Damien Woody
Sean Morey
Kevin Faulk
Adam Vinatieri FA

 

[TheRainMaker]

I remember Drew cursing him out openly coming off the field. It was bad. As bad as Pete got in Seattle from key players like Richard Seymour and Marshawn Lynch.

Many years after the fact, players are loathe to denigrate others, former oaches. Bledsoe would not be expected to blast Carroll so many years later.

Every player and coach gets into arguments.

But as for poor drafts, we all thought those were poor drafts and we killed Grier for it. In fact, when Belichick got to New England, people said in 2001 that it was the worse collection of talent in the NFL.

But then you look back at Grier's drafts and these are the players that he grabbed (4 of them made the Pro Bowl):

Terry Glenn
Lawyer Milloy
Tedy Bruschi
Brandon Mitchell
Greg Spires
Robert Edwards
Tebucky Jones
Damien Woody
Sean Morey
Kevin Faulk
Adam Vinatieri FA

He’s referring to 97-99 where the returns during that time were complete dog ****, which allowed the rest of the division to catch up to them by 1998.

Brandon Mitchell and Greg Spires were pedestrian. Mitchell was decent in run support, but worthless pass rusher.

Spires couldn’t get on the field in NE and bounced around the league averaging less than 4 sacks per season. He also wasn’t counted on in run support.

Tebucky Jones was awful playing CB until Bill squeezed out what he could putting him at FS and then traded him.

Damien Woody couldn’t even snap a football out of the shotgun. Mike Compton was signed in 2001 because he was so bad. That is absolutely unheard of for a first round pick. He lost his job to Dan Koopen in 2003.

Faulk was awful the year he was drafted in 1999 and provided zero impact. Again, Bill realized he couldn’t carry the load in 2000 and regulated him into a rotation between Smith and Redmond in 2001.

Robert Edwards was the best of the bunch, but their running game was still among the worst in the NFL upon his arrival.

Not sure why Sean Morey is even listed here. Him making his one and only Pro Bowl on special teams 9 years after he was drafted wasn’t going to help them in 1999 where Whigham was their special teams ace. They drafted him as a wide receiver, which he clearly couldn’t play.

He’s not on your list, but Andy Katzenmoyer was one of the only players that made an impact when he was drafted. Unfortunately, it was too little too late and his neck injury cut his career short.

Regarding the 1996 players:

Parcells drafted Bruschi, but don’t know about Milloy. Bruschi was a rotational guy until Ted Johnson was injured and Todd Collins departed after the 1998 season.

Vinatieri was up and down prior to 2001. He was awful in 1999 and was directly responsible for two loses that season which would’ve given them a record of 10-6 and made the playoffs.

 

[upstater1]

Every player and coach gets into arguments.

He’s referring to 97-99 where the returns during that time were complete dog ****, which allowed the rest of the division to catch up to them by 1998.

Brandon Mitchell and Greg Spires were pedestrian. Mitchell was decent in run support, but worthless pass rusher.

Spires couldn’t get on the field in NE and bounced around the league averaging less than 4 sacks per season. He also wasn’t counted on in run support.

Tebucky Jones was awful playing CB until Bill squeezed out what he could putting him at FS and then traded him.

Damien Woody couldn’t even snap a football out of the shotgun. Mike Compton was signed in 2001 because he was so bad. That is absolutely unheard of for a first round pick. He lost his job to Dan Koopen in 2003.

Faulk was awful the year he was drafted in 1999 and provided zero impact. Again, Bill realized he couldn’t carry the load in 2000 and regulated him into a rotation between Smith and Redmond in 2001.

Robert Edwards was the best of the bunch, but their running game was still among the worst in the NFL upon his arrival.

Not sure why Sean Morey is even listed here. Him making his one and only Pro Bowl on special teams 9 years after he was drafted wasn’t going to help them in 1999 where Whigham was their special teams ace. They drafted him as a wide receiver, which he clearly couldn’t play.

He’s not on your list, but Andy Katzenmoyer was one of the only players that made an impact when he was drafted. Unfortunately, it was too little too late and his neck injury cut his career short.

Regarding the 1996 players:

Parcells drafted Bruschi, but don’t know about Milloy. Bruschi was a rotational guy until Ted Johnson was injured and Todd Collins departed after the 1998 season.

Vinatieri was up and down prior to 2001. He was awful in 1999 and was directly responsible for two loses that season which would’ve given them a record of 10-6 and made the playoffs.

No, it's not normal for players to disregard their head coach in public. It wasn't a matter of yelling, etc., fighting; it was total disrespect.

The attitude of players toward Carroll showed they had checked out.

As for the drafts, I listed all the Grier drafts, 1996 through 1999.

Parcells left and slammed the door after the Glenn pick. Grier was in control.

Spires made the Pro Bowl for Tampa Bay, Mitchell was a solid starter; Woody was a Pro Bowler, Faulk was excellent, incredible career, I mean you've even denigrating the greatest kicker in NFL history here. You don't think it's weird slagging a bunch of Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers in an effort to say what? That there was no talent?

 

[XLIX]

IMO despite a far better QB they look way worse this year than last year.

You obviously didn't watch them much last year....

They were 4-13 last year. This year they are 3-12. The difference is negligible to all but the most blind homers.

 

[signbabybrady]

Every player and coach gets into arguments.

He’s referring to 97-99 where the returns during that time were complete dog ****, which allowed the rest of the division to catch up to them by 1998.

Brandon Mitchell and Greg Spires were pedestrian. Mitchell was decent in run support, but worthless pass rusher.

Spires couldn’t get on the field in NE and bounced around the league averaging less than 4 sacks per season. He also wasn’t counted on in run support.

Tebucky Jones was awful playing CB until Bill squeezed out what he could putting him at FS and then traded him.

Damien Woody couldn’t even snap a football out of the shotgun. Mike Compton was signed in 2001 because he was so bad. That is absolutely unheard of for a first round pick. He lost his job to Dan Koopen in 2003.

Faulk was awful the year he was drafted in 1999 and provided zero impact. Again, Bill realized he couldn’t carry the load in 2000 and regulated him into a rotation between Smith and Redmond in 2001.

Robert Edwards was the best of the bunch, but their running game was still among the worst in the NFL upon his arrival.

Not sure why Sean Morey is even listed here. Him making his one and only Pro Bowl on special teams 9 years after he was drafted wasn’t going to help them in 1999 where Whigham was their special teams ace. They drafted him as a wide receiver, which he clearly couldn’t play.

He’s not on your list, but Andy Katzenmoyer was one of the only players that made an impact when he was drafted. Unfortunately, it was too little too late and his neck injury cut his career short.

Regarding the 1996 players:

Parcells drafted Bruschi, but don’t know about Milloy. Bruschi was a rotational guy until Ted Johnson was injured and Todd Collins departed after the 1998 season.

Vinatieri was up and down prior to 2001. He was awful in 1999 and was directly responsible for two loses that season which would’ve given them a record of 10-6 and made the playoffs.

I thought Kraft took drafting away from Parcells that year. Isn't that what lead to the shop for groceries comment and what eventually drove him out.

 

[Ring 6]

Maye is the reason for optimism. Obviously he's not enough by himself but without the QB even a stacked roster and coaching staff rarely overcomes it.

With the roster and coaching staff as bad as it looks it won't be an instant fix might take a couple seasons to climb the ladder and fix the other holes but if Maye is as good as we hope then that's enough to be optimistic about.

With him we’ve won 1 game. I really like Maye but I’m not optimistic the GM will build a capable team around him, or that the 3 Stooges coaching staff is cabling winning, even with a good qb.