BB in damage control mode regarding Brady's departure

[Ring 6]

Exactly, the guy is a fool. The Pats could have made it work but chose not to.

Tell us how. You have yet to show how. If you know they could make it work, you ought to be able to explain how.

 

[gobesmug]

You haven’t given a fact.

You are saying they could have signed players with 70 million FIRST YEAR CAP HITS because they had money in future years. They would have needed 70 mill THAT YEAR plus all the money they had in future years.

Your “plan” was let the best OL walk, and save cap room on a retired guy and opt out and by signing McCourty to EXACTLY THE SAME CONTRACT THEY DID. Your plan saved $0.00. But there are plenty of ways right? Shocking you can’t even think of one. You are still 70 million short, keep going.

 

[Ring 6]

Again moving the goal posts. You said it couldn't be done. We gave you an example. One of many. It most certainly could have been done. You are wrong.

First I absolutely did not say it couldn’t be done, I said the patriots did not have the cap space in 2020 to keep Brady and improve upon the 2019 team.

How that turns into a team 70 million over the cap can destroy itself further by ruining the future too is beyond me.

The claim was the patriots could have signed everyone they signed in 2021 in 2020 by borrowing future cap space.
Since we all (should) know you can’t borrow future cap space, the dolt who said it apparently didn’t understand that the 70 mill they spent was the FIRST YEAR CAP HIT, and they are using ANOTHER roughly at least 110 mill in cap space this year on them.
So please explain with about $3 of cap space in 2020 and 70 mill in 2021 how they could have signed players taking up 70 mill in year 1 (2020) and 110 mill in year 2 (2021). AND paid Brady on top of that. It is literally impossibly.

 

[Ring 6]

I guess you concede. Good move.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

LMFAO

 

[crawhammer]

They certainly are ascending.
The built a team that with a rookie QB made the playoffs and was 2 wins from a 1 seed.

Then we should be expecting at least 10 wins and a wild card spot, which would be plateauing, so 11-12 wins and advancing to the divisional round would be more representative of improvement. That's year-three removed from Brady to find your next franchise quarterback and rebuild your roster into a competitive playoff team, which I think is a fair expectation, so anything less will be a disappointment. Especially when the player you moved on from has won a Super Bowl and continues to play at an elite level at the most vital position.

Not keep thuney means taking a step backward. You can always gain cap money by getting rid of players, but that doesn’t improve your team.

Franchising Thuney for the 2020 was incredibly stupid.

The team also could have moved on from McCourty and Slater before the 2020 season... both highly overpaid relative to their on-field contributions. Prior to the 2020 season: McCourty 2-years $23 mil and Slater 2-years $5.3 mil. Thuney franchised at $15. Wipe those out and there's nearly $30 mil... the team could have made room for a Brady 2-year $50 mil contract... they chose to go in another direction.

 

[Ring 6]

Then we should be expecting at least 10 wins and a wild card spot, which would be plateauing, so 11-12 wins and advancing to the divisional round would be more representative of improvement. That's year-three removed from Brady to find your next franchise quarterback and rebuild your roster into a competitive playoff team, which I think is a fair expectation, so anything less will be a disappointment. Especially when the player you moved on from has won a Super Bowl and continues to play at an elite level at the most vital position.


Franchising Thuney for the 2020 was incredibly stupid.

The team also could have moved on from McCourty and Slater before the 2020 season... both highly overpaid relative to their on-field contributions. Prior to the 2020 season: McCourty 2-years $23 mil and Slater 2-years $5.3 mil. Thuney franchised at $15. Wipe those out and there's nearly $30 mil... the team could have made room for a Brady 2-year $50 mil contract... they chose to go in another direction.

Yes, although ascending and declining isn’t necessarily measured only in wins and losses.

Under the idea that they were trying to keep Brady letting their best OL walk would have been more stupid.

Of course they could have made room for Brady but in order to do so you take a flawed team that he couldnt win with and degrade it further.
Why would you keep him to watch the team fall apart around him and then start rebuilding when he is 45 years old?
McCourty and slater counted less than 8 mill against the 2020 cap, so it’s not 30 mill either.
This also doesn’t take into account the other players that were not back from 2019.
This team wasn’t winning with or without Brady in 2020.
The 2021 wouldn’t have resembled what it was had 50 mill of cap between 20 and 21 gone to Brady. The 70 mill overhaul would have been 20 mill.
We would have best case tried to start rebuilding this year.

 

[crawhammer]

Yes, although ascending and declining isn’t necessarily measured only in wins and losses.

The team has to win next season... 10 games minimum. They need to win a playoff game as well. Really any record that's not good enough to get them into the postseason is bad.

Under the idea that they were trying to keep Brady letting their best OL walk would have been more stupid.

Without Brady the 2020 season was doomed. Ideally they could have kept both but obviously retaining Brady would have been far more valuable. Thuney is replaceable. Brady isn't. No Brady and Thuney on a $15 mil franchise tag was idiotic... he occupied 7% of their cap space on what turned out to be a marginally mediocre team.

Of course they could have made room for Brady but in order to do so you take a flawed team that he couldnt win with and degrade it further.
Why would you keep him to watch the team fall apart around him and then start rebuilding when he is 45 years old?
McCourty and slater counted less than 8 mill against the 2020 cap, so it’s not 30 mill either.
This also doesn’t take into account the other players that were not back from 2019.
This team wasn’t winning with or without Brady in 2020.
The 2021 wouldn’t have resembled what it was had 50 mill of cap between 20 and 21 gone to Brady. The 70 mill overhaul would have been 20 mill.
We would have best case tried to start rebuilding this year.

Thuney, McCourty and Slater equaled a cap hit of $23 mil in 2020. You telling me they couldn't have scraped together another $2 mil for Brady at $25 mil? Paying McCourty over $30 mil for 2020-2022 is criminal. He's not that good.

The team had a dead cap hit of $18 mil for Brady and AB in 2020... retaining Brady also would have alleviated some of that dead cap burden.

2020 Cap Totals

CAP TYPE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING BONUS	ROSTER BONUS	OPTION BONUS	WORKOUT BONUS	RESTRUC. BONUS	INCENTIVES	CAP TOTAL
2020 NFL Salary Cap								$198,200,000
2019 Rollover Cap								$5,907,571
Adjustment								$6,550,000
Adjusted Salary Cap								$210,657,571
All Contracts	$74,894,928	$19,127,578	$8,540,000	-	$600,000	$866,668	$550,000	$103,996,819
Injured Reserve Money	$25,069,098	$11,218,738	$2,381,250	-	$300,000	$5,320,834	$2,500,000	$46,629,920
Reserve/Non-Football Injury Money	$910,000	$266,666	-	-	$100,000	-	-	$1,276,666
Reserve/Exempt/Commissioner’s Permission List	-	$1,400,000	$800,000	$1,166,667	$50,000	-	$200,000	$3,616,667
Dead Money	$6,279,347	$24,546,207	$250,000	-	$54,000	-	-	$31,129,552
Total	$107,153,373	$56,559,189	$11,971,250	$1,166,667	$1,104,000	$6,187,502	$3,250,000	$186,649,624
Cap Space								$24,007,947

That's not exactly spending to the cap. And there are countless scenarios whereby they could created additional cap space as needed. Literally every team has that capacity.

And half the money spent last offseason was fruitless. Had they retained Brady and spent more wisely then they would have had a deep playoff run at least. The AFC is loaded for next season but this past postseason it was ripe for the taking... it's highly possible they could have made it to the SB with Brady.

 

[crawhammer]

Some of these contracts are pretty bad...

Nelson Agholor... $15 mil cap hit in 2022... $10 mil dead cap if they trade or cut him.
Jonnu Smith... $14 mil cap hit in 2022... $26 mil dead cap if traded or cut.

Those two being the worst... 13.5% of their 2022 cap space.

 

[Ring 6]

The team has to win next season... 10 games minimum. They need to win a playoff game as well. Really any record that's not good enough to get them into the postseason is bad.


Without Brady the 2020 season was doomed. Ideally they could have kept both but obviously retaining Brady would have been far more valuable. Thuney is replaceable. Brady isn't. No Brady and Thuney on a $15 mil franchise tag was idiotic... he occupied 7% of their cap space on what turned out to be a marginally mediocre team.


Thuney, McCourty and Slater equaled a cap hit of $23 mil in 2020. You telling me they couldn't have scraped together another $2 mil for Brady at $25 mil? Paying McCourty over $30 mil for 2020-2022 is criminal. He's not that good.

The team had a dead cap hit of $18 mil for Brady and AB in 2020... retaining Brady also would have alleviated some of that dead cap burden.

2020 Cap Totals

CAP TYPE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING BONUS	ROSTER BONUS	OPTION BONUS	WORKOUT BONUS	RESTRUC. BONUS	INCENTIVES	CAP TOTAL
2020 NFL Salary Cap								$198,200,000
2019 Rollover Cap								$5,907,571
Adjustment								$6,550,000
Adjusted Salary Cap								$210,657,571
All Contracts	$74,894,928	$19,127,578	$8,540,000	-	$600,000	$866,668	$550,000	$103,996,819
Injured Reserve Money	$25,069,098	$11,218,738	$2,381,250	-	$300,000	$5,320,834	$2,500,000	$46,629,920
Reserve/Non-Football Injury Money	$910,000	$266,666	-	-	$100,000	-	-	$1,276,666
Reserve/Exempt/Commissioner’s Permission List	-	$1,400,000	$800,000	$1,166,667	$50,000	-	$200,000	$3,616,667
Dead Money	$6,279,347	$24,546,207	$250,000	-	$54,000	-	-	$31,129,552
Total	$107,153,373	$56,559,189	$11,971,250	$1,166,667	$1,104,000	$6,187,502	$3,250,000	$186,649,624
Cap Space								$24,007,947

That's not exactly spending to the cap. And there are countless scenarios whereby they could created additional cap space as needed. Literally every team has that capacity.

And half the money spent last offseason was fruitless. Had they retained Brady and spent more wisely then they would have had a deep playoff run at least. The AFC is loaded for next season but this past postseason it was ripe for the taking... it's highly possible they could have made it to the SB with Brady.

You are moving the goalposts.
Surely they could have kept Brady I never dispute that.
But in order to keep him they would have degraded the 2019 team that he couldn’t win with. No chance they have a deep playoff run with a worse team than they had in 2019.
To keep him you are taking away his best OL, a captain and top safety, best special team player plus all of the players who didn’t return. They couldn’t win with that.
The only reason they didn’t spend to the cap was because of opt outs which occurred after there was no one to spend that money on.

And there it is. Supposedly there are countless scenarios but nobody can name them. Nice way to have an argument. What I want could have happened I just can’t tell you how.

Had they retained Brady 50 million of the 70 million they had to spend in 21 is gone, so they couldn’t have added half of what they did and likely would have declined further. Then Brady would have stayed retired and they would be starting from scratch now.

 

[Ring 6]

Some of these contracts are pretty bad...

Nelson Agholor... $15 mil cap hit in 2022... $10 mil dead cap if they trade or cut him.
Jonnu Smith... $14 mil cap hit in 2022... $26 mil dead cap if traded or cut.

Those two being the worst... 13.5% of their 2022 cap space.

It was necessary.

They turned:
Wr Harry, Meyers, Gunner
TE. Asiasi
LT. Wynn
LG. Onwenu
C. Ferentz
RG Mason
RT. Herron
Rb Harris
with a rookie Qb, the 5th one picked
Into the 6th highest scoring offense, 2nd highest score per drive % and a playoff team in free agency.

Could be the best free agency rebuild of an offense, results wise in history.

 

[1960Pats]

How do you propose the 2020 Pats with negative cap room after keeping Brady could have improved on the 2019 team that wasn’t good enough?
How do they rebuild the roster that replaced 45% of the snaps played in 2021 with $50 million less to spend in cap room than they did.
They didn’t “let him walk for nothing”, he chose to walk, and the consequence was the team that needed to rebuild was therefore able to do it much faster and more completely.
From 2020 to 2021 they turned over 45% of the team by having $70,000,000 to spend. They couldn’t have come close to that of Brady had taken up over 50 mill of it between 20 and 21.

I couldn't care less about the cap. It's a myth.

 

[1960Pats]

It absolutely could have. Sorry the facts hurt your feelings

Sometimes the truth can be a cruel thing to the Belichick rumpswabs.

 

[1960Pats]

The Saints and Patriots operate in the same rules.

Again you are hurt and the facts make you feel bad. The pats could have manipulated the cap like any other team in the NFL does.

Kraft got cheap and didn't want to, end of story.

You can bet that Kraft regrets that move now.

 

[1960Pats]

LMFAO

You know what I don't get? They created a sub-forum because of complaints from the Belichick crowd but then they come here to troll.
It's a sickness I tell ya. We need to come up with a name for it

 

[sb1]

Into the 6th highest scoring offense, 2nd highest score per drive % and a playoff team in free agency.

The Patriots were also pretenders last season. Beat only 3 winning teams and 2 playoff teams where one of them was completely injury depleted and the other one was in a windstorm.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots were also pretenders last season. Beat only 3 winning teams and 2 playoff teams where one of them was completely injury depleted and the other one was in a windstorm.

Im not sure what pretender is supposed to mean. They were everything I said.

 

[sb1]

Im not sure what pretender is supposed to mean. They were everything I said.

I wasn’t disagreeing with you and my reply was also accurate.

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn’t disagreeing with you and my reply was also accurate.

The pretender comment wouldn’t be considered “accurate”

 

[crawhammer]

You are moving the goalposts.

Into the 6th highest scoring offense, 2nd highest score per drive % and a playoff team in free agency.

Could be the best free agency rebuild of an offense, results wise in history.

Read your own words... high-powered offense with elite scoring efficiency... best rebuild of an offense in history... those are your words. And I'm moving the goalposts because I want a minimum 10 regular season wins and at least one playoff win? I'm not even saying they have to win the division, which they haven't in 2 straight seasons after having won 16 in a row with Brady. I'm conceding the division to Buffalo, I'm merely asking for the same number of wins plus one playoff victory. According to you, we're witnessing an all-time historic rebuild by Belichick, so I don't think I'm asking for too much.

Surely they could have kept Brady I never dispute that.
But in order to keep him they would have degraded the 2019 team that he couldn’t win with. No chance they have a deep playoff run with a worse team than they had in 2019.
To keep him you are taking away his best OL, a captain and top safety, best special team player plus all of the players who didn’t return. They couldn’t win with that.

With Brady that sh*tty 2020 team wins 11-13 games and the division like always... in 21 seasons Brady has won less than 11 games only 3 times. That 2019 team lost three games in a row when the opposing quarterbacks combined for 0 TDs and 5 INTs... Brady wins those games throwing lefthanded.

And McCourty stopped being a top anything, other than money earner, a long time ago. Don't get me going on Slater... Devin Hester had 20 special teams TDs in his career... you tell me who's the more valuable STer?

Had they retained Brady 50 million of the 70 million they had to spend in 21 is gone, so they couldn’t have added half of what they did and likely would have declined further. Then Brady would have stayed retired and they would be starting from scratch now.

Brady's coming off of two of his best back-to-back seasons ever... he's not retiring and nor would he have had he stayed in NE.