Atlanta Falcons free agent CB Brent Grimes

[convertedpatsfan]

Defense still wins championships....

We can't seal the deal with this piss poor defense, you can have the most amazing offense in the league but if you cannot stop the other guys then theres always a chance you will lose. I'm personally of the belief that we should go all out on defense both in FA and in the draft. Yeah we need to re-sign Wes and Edelman or get a few more bodies in but I think alot on this board expect us to blow our cap all on offense which just isn't going to help as much as investing/reloading the defense. I'd hope we maybe draft a WR at the right point in the draft but not double or even triple barreling as some suggest.

Defense all the way, plenty of DB's, a DT, a DE, another LB who can cover.... then we can bring home the super bowl.

Defense still wins championships? Look at the Superbowl the past few years for defenses in terms of points allowed.

2012: Ravens 12th defeated 49ers 2nd (we were 9th)
2011: Giants 25th defeated Patriots 15th
2010: Packers 2nd defeated Steelers 1st (we were 8th)
2009: Saints 20th defeated Colts 8th (we were 5th)
2008: Steelers 1st defeated Cardinals 28th (we were 8th)
2007: Giants 17th defeated Patriots 4th
2006: Colts 23rd defeated Bears 3rd (we were 2nd)

In 6 of the last 7 Super Bowls, the team with the worse defense won. 5 of those 7 winners weren't even in the top 10 for points allowed by a defense. 3 of them were in the 20s. In 5 of the last 7 Super Bowls, our terrible defense allowed fewer points than the eventual Superbowl winner.

Defense obviously plays a part, but it is old-world thinking to still believe defense wins championships. The Ravens won on the incredible post-season from Joe Flacco, not a terribly aged defense missing their best cornerback and a half-speed Ray Lewis. It's not to say a team can't win with a great defense, it's just to say it doesn't quite guarantee championships as some people assume.

 

[doesntmatter1]

We shouldn't overpay for questionable guys such as grimes or talib.

In our glory days our secondary always consisted of great safety play. We have McCourty and we need someone new on the side of him and that alone is good enough to win with jag corners. Steve Gregory can not be a starter. His coverage isn't so bad but his tackling is atrocious. I prefer james ihedibo over gregory anyday.

 

[ausbacker]

Defense still wins championships? Look at the Superbowl the past few years for defenses in terms of points allowed.

2012: Ravens 12th defeated 49ers 2nd (we were 9th)
2011: Giants 25th defeated Patriots 15th
2010: Packers 2nd defeated Steelers 1st (we were 8th)
2009: Saints 20th defeated Colts 8th (we were 5th)
2008: Steelers 1st defeated Cardinals 28th (we were 8th)
2007: Giants 17th defeated Patriots 4th
2006: Colts 23rd defeated Bears 3rd (we were 2nd)

In 6 of the last 7 Super Bowls, the team with the worse defense won. 5 of those 7 winners weren't even in the top 10 for points allowed by a defense. 3 of them were in the 20s. In 5 of the last 7 Super Bowls, our terrible defense allowed fewer points than the eventual Superbowl winner.

Defense obviously plays a part, but it is old-world thinking to still believe defense wins championships. The Ravens won on the incredible post-season from Joe Flacco, not a terribly aged defense missing their best cornerback and a half-speed Ray Lewis. It's not to say a team can't win with a great defense, it's just to say it doesn't quite guarantee championships as some people assume.

Match ups and execution wins championships.

 

[Big-T]

Why does it have to be Talib or another?

Take Talib AND Grimes/DRC there's a chance Dennard misses games and if he doesn't that leaves a good CB in Dennard playing nickel.

 

[DW Toys]

Defense still wins championships? Look at the Superbowl the past few years for defenses in terms of points allowed.

2012: Ravens 12th defeated 49ers 2nd (we were 9th)
2011: Giants 25th defeated Patriots 15th
2010: Packers 2nd defeated Steelers 1st (we were 8th)
2009: Saints 20th defeated Colts 8th (we were 5th)
2008: Steelers 1st defeated Cardinals 28th (we were 8th)
2007: Giants 17th defeated Patriots 4th
2006: Colts 23rd defeated Bears 3rd (we were 2nd)

In 6 of the last 7 Super Bowls, the team with the worse defense won. 5 of those 7 winners weren't even in the top 10 for points allowed by a defense. 3 of them were in the 20s. In 5 of the last 7 Super Bowls, our terrible defense allowed fewer points than the eventual Superbowl winner.

Defense obviously plays a part, but it is old-world thinking to still believe defense wins championships. The Ravens won on the incredible post-season from Joe Flacco, not a terribly aged defense missing their best cornerback and a half-speed Ray Lewis. It's not to say a team can't win with a great defense, it's just to say it doesn't quite guarantee championships as some people assume.

Interesting. Good stuff.
DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

Why does it have to be Talib or another?

Take Talib AND Grimes/DRC there's a chance Dennard misses games and if he doesn't that leaves a good CB in Dennard playing nickel.

That sounds like an awfully expensive plan.

 

[DW Toys]

Why does it have to be Talib or another?

Take Talib AND Grimes/DRC there's a chance Dennard misses games and if he doesn't that leaves a good CB in Dennard playing nickel.

Best and most intelligent post of the year so far!!! McCourty back to CB is worthless. He is a "C to C+" Safety and a "D+" CB. Arrington was pretty bad last year and is maybe a "D" in coverage.
Dennard was the bright spot. Now who knows. and Dowling is at his last chance but without any doubt of any poster on this forum will get hurt in 2013.

It wasn't just Talib's play. Talib allowed the DB rotation more flexibility because he was set at one spot while the flow on all the rest of the DB play worked.

BB has had some bad apples work out. Look at Moss, Dillon, Fernandez and Spikes. I can't really believe they let Talib walk unless his agents want big bucks. Where do you get a 26 year old CB who has All Pro ability?> They screwed up on Samuel and have not come close to fixing that mistake. Now you have a nice chess piece on the table that you can maneuver and see ya, good bye? Doesn't make any sense. Nick C is mediocre as a player personnel guy. There is where they should upgrade. They fell asleet on George Wilson as well. $2m per year for an upgrade at Safety and the exact type to pair with McCourty. ...whiff.

I say Talib and Dunta Robinson (who will be cheaper than Grimes). Robinson would certainly be a better CB option than anyone signed on the depth chart right now. He has starting experience and is decent in slot coverage. He is also healthy.

I like the idea of Woodson but I think he becomes a hybrid CB/S in our D. Still a great veteran move. Reed is going back to the Ravens I bet.

How many here think the percentage of a rookie drafted CB coming in day one and out performing Talib is a possibility?

Some other shockers that I could see and aggravate some posters. If Mallett (which makes sense) gets traded does BB take a shot at Tebow? 3,2,1...................., !@%$#^*&%%& D.W Toys!!!! They idea of another QB playing a play the next three years is doubtful. McDaniels Drafted the kid and has worked with him. A player that can play more than one position excites BB. Do we have to have the most homed pin point QB as a back up?

Next; Michael Johnson was my "binkie" at Georgia Tech a few years ago. I was scoffed at of course. Now BB was supposedly hot on him.
You have two shots in the Draft to get his type, and the Pats own probably the slots that it would work. Margus Hunt (2nd?) and Devin Taylor(3rd?).

Finally. Two more to add in FA:
Why no interest in DT Chris Canty? He has some pass rush ability and certainly adequate in run stop. Unless you think you can get the Raiders kid Desmond Bryant.

If the Raiders CAP cut Darius Heyward Bey(very probable) is he not the deep outside threat we want and his production is increasing every year?

My money thoughts(?): Keep Talib (6.75m for 3 years) and pick up Canty (2m), Dunta Robinson (2.5m +4.5m in 2014), Freeney (3.5m 2 years) and Bey (2.5m+$4.5m in 2014), resign Welker (7.5m for 4 years), Woody (1.25m) and Edelman (1.25m), get Cherilus (2.5m) if Volmer walks and trade Mallett for at least a 2 (get Tebow at Mallett money?), and add a few Draft picks for the rotation and we are upgraded pretty well.
Dropping Lloyd, Fells +? and trading Mallett frees up money. Some I am sure above are not going to fly but they are my thoughts.

DW Toys

 

[borisman]

Hypothetical question: If Talib goes elsewhere for 5/40 and we don't sign another CB to a contract anywhere near what Talib got, what kind of compensation pick are we looking at in 2014? We did give up a 4th rounder for him so......
It looks like we'll be signing at least a couple of good FA's this year so would we likely not get a comp pick for Talib?
This assumes we sign both Wes and Vollmer. It also depends on what Vollmer is asking for. He does have back issues so he won't get a huge deal or a lot of guaranteed dollars. No other FA loss of consequence is worth discussing....sorry all you Julian Edelman fans.

 

[JackBauer]

Best and most intelligent post of the year so far!!! McCourty back to CB is worthless. He is a "C to C+" Safety and a "D+" CB.

Preposterous.

BB has had some bad apples work out. Look at Moss, Dillon, Fernandez and Spikes.

Who is Fernandez and how are Fernandez and Spikes bad apples?

Nick C is mediocre as a player personnel guy.

You say this based on what?

I say Talib and Robinson (who will be cheaper than Grimes). Robinson would certainly be a better CB option than anyone signed on the depth chart right now. He has starting experience and is decent in slot coverage. He is also healthy.

Dunta Robinson sucks.

 

[skspikex2]

Why does it have to be Talib or another?

Take Talib AND Grimes/DRC there's a chance Dennard misses games and if he doesn't that leaves a good CB in Dennard playing nickel.

Sure, that be great if Talib and Grimes/DRC taking in cheaper money(much cheaper). Otherwise, please be sure to turn on salary cap in Madden.

 

[Big-T]

Sure, that be great if Talib and Grimes/DRC taking in cheaper money(much cheaper). Otherwise, please be sure to turn on salary cap in Madden.

Well, basing the costs off the article in another thread saying CBs will have to look at 4-5m a year instead of 7-8m - if Talib and Grimes/DRC can be got for a combined 8-9m (or less depending on how the deal is structured) that should be seen as a bargain.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

well talib won't be tagged so he will test test the market...aka leave

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

i read an article that teams are giving up on DRC and his skills becasue of late. I bet he would come rather cheap

 

[Deus Irae]

Why does it have to be Talib or another?

Take Talib AND Grimes/DRC there's a chance Dennard misses games and if he doesn't that leaves a good CB in Dennard playing nickel.

something called a salary cap...

 

[BradyManny]

The Patriots only have $2 million in cap space committed to the cornerback position for 2013 (1.5 for Dowling, .5 for Dennard).

Which is 1.6% of the team's cap - they are going to have to invest in the position. They need some bodies, and they need at least one of them to be a legit starting cornerback.

 

[DW Toys]

Preposterous.



Who is Fernandez and how are Fernandez and Spikes bad apples?



You say this based on what?



Dunta Robinson sucks.

Preposterous.

Your opinion. You obviously see a real good CB when you view McCourty. I see a better safety who is just o.k. unless you are a homer.



Who is Fernandez and how are Fernandez and Spikes bad apples?
That's Hernandez, Excuse me........ and his documented marahoochy problems in college as well as Spikes in some bone head moves in his youth by exposing his ripper-rappa did not deter BB. Mallett even had question marks. That was my point. He brought the better out of them so far. Why do you fight me on that point?



You say this based on what?
Shall we go over his misses of players that we might have had versus some he has gotten? You obviously see him as better than my opinion. As I say mediocre. I wonder why you feel this guys is the bees knees? He has also been on board some Draft day blunders. For every Gronk, there is a Brace. For every Talib there is a Fanene. Not awful. Just mediocre.

DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

Your opinion. You obviously see a real good CB when you view McCourty. I see a better safety who is just o.k. unless you are a homer.

I don't think anyone who look at the situation dispassionately can agree with the notion that McCourty is a "D+" CB and a "C/C+" safety. That's really all there is to it.

That's Hernandez, Excuse me........ and his documented marahoochy problems in college as well as Spikes in some bone head moves in his youth by exposing his ripper-rappa did not deter BB. Mallett even had question marks. That was my point. He brought the better out of them so far. Why do you fight me on that point?

Because smoking marijuana doesn't make one a bad apple, nor does filming sexual exploits. At worst you can deem them guilty of lousy judgment.

Shall we go over his misses of players that we might have had versus some he has gotten? You obviously see him as better than my opinion. As I say mediocre. I wonder why you feel this guys is the bees knees? He has also been on board some Draft day blunders. For every Gronk, there is a Brace. For every Talib there is a Fanene. Not awful. Just mediocre.

This would be more compelling if it didn't apply to every single team in the league. What matters isn't absolute success, but relative, and you haven't really addressed that here.

You'll also note that NE's drafts have improved tremendously post-2009. Coincidence?

 

[Leemo]

There's a few guys I take before rogers-cromartie, including Chris houston, Keenan Lewis, Greg toler, Bradley fletcher pacman jones

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

pacman jones over grimes? :bricks:

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

The Patriots only have $2 million in cap space committed to the cornerback position for 2013 (1.5 for Dowling, .5 for Dennard).

Which is 1.6% of the team's cap - they are going to have to invest in the position. They need some bodies, and they need at least one of them to be a legit starting cornerback.

only 2 mill..really? wow we need to up that $$ a lot this offseason