Patriots Rumor Asante's asking to be traded?

[DaBruinz]

I would say your jipping him on the guaranteed money. Other than that your fine.

Gipping him? How do you figure? My offer guarantees him 50% of his total contract. Clements contract didn't do that even at the refined numbers.

 

[PushnPencils]

You do realize that Asante is a 4 year veteran right? Add in the Pats 2 1st rounders and you have a helluva lot more than that #6 this year and whatever pick you get next year.

Its absurd. Especially the financial committment the Pats would be obligated to make.

Let's use the vaunted draft value chart for ****'s and giggles.

Our 2 1sts this year equal the 7th or 8th pick overall. We get the skins 6th.

Then Asante goes for their #1 in 08' which has the potential to be a top 3 pick.

Asante is a great player, but he doesn't carry that kind of value.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Let me break it down like this. The Pats have to get this deal done with Asante. They cannot let this turn out like the Deion Branch fiasco. If they don't, the secondary will be extremely weak, putting even more pressure on our LB's to get a good pass rush. Losing Asante would be a big blow in my opinion because there isn't anyone to replace him. None of the CB's in the draft excite me. Leon Hall, who is supposed to be the best of the bunch didn't do too well against elite competition. Another poster said it perfectly, how can the Pats give up so much for Wes Welker, yet cannot come to terms with a player who led the NFL in pass breakups and interceptions? Unless Asante is asking for a Champ Bailey ridiculous type money, he will be a Patriot come training camp.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Let's use the vaunted draft value chart for ****'s and giggles.

Our 2 1sts this year equal the 7th or 8th pick overall. We get the skins 6th.

Then Asante goes for their #1 in 08' which has the potential to be a top 3 pick.

Asante is a great player, but he doesn't carry that kind of value.

No chance in hell Washington is going to be in the top 3 worst teams this year...Likely to be somewhere around 7-9 / 9-7 maybe even a bit better but no worse than 7-9.

We would probably get a 08 pick around 14th-17th if Washington is involved

 

[mgcolby]

I would say your jipping him on the guaranteed money. Other than that your fine.

He's had one season with stats that warrant anything above league average. I don't think 15 mil is jipping him, imo.

This is a little off topic (maybe) but if he signs the tender - he makes nearly 8 mil or whatever 7.79?? guaranteed. If he has 5-7 picks again this season he will get an even bigger contract next season. I realize he runs the risk of getting injured but so doesn't every other player and the team has to take that same risk when they guarantee the money. Throw in the Insurance policies and it becomes a mute point IMO.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Maybe Washington will offer us that ridiculous deal they offered Chicago for Briggs. They were trying to deal for Bly.

If we get their pick, we would have our choice between Landry and Willis, WITH the cap room to sign them.

I was wrong about Asante. I really didnt think it would come to this.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Does Samuel have the right to talk to other teams about what they'd be willing to pay him and offer in trade? I know he can negotiate with clubs to sign him a pay the franchise compensation picks, but can he negotiate a trade or does he need the Patriots' permission?

If he needs permission, would they give it? You'll remember, when they let Branch look around, it came back and bit them. They basically got accused of bad faith, with the allegation being that letting a player look implies that you have to take a "reasonable" offer.

 

[PushnPencils]

No chance in hell Washington is going to be in the top 3 worst teams this year...Likely to be somewhere around 7-9 / 9-7 maybe even a bit better but no worse than 7-9.

We would probably get a 08 pick around 14th-17th if Washington is involved

A 7-9 season does not give you the 17th pick. Let's say they go 7-9.

That's potentially a top 12 pick. I'd still take it. But mark my word, the skins will implode this year.

 

[PATRIOT64]

A 7-9 season does not give you the 17th pick. Let's say they go 7-9.

That's potentially a top 12 pick. I'd still take it. But mark my word, the skins will implode this year.

With Parity creeping more and more every year a 7-9 record could definately mean 14th-to 17th...I can definately see about 14 teams being 7-9 or worse this year,maybe more especially in the NFC where an 8-8 team made the playoffs.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I guess this means his deal isn't done and they're just playing possum to throw off the draft pundits...

I hate to say I told you so, but this was never more than a 50/50 proposition at best. Probably closer to 70/30 after the playoffs. Asante wanted a $10M+ signing bonus last November. The Patriots were offering him $7.5M. The only reason they tagged him was because his "buzz" value was at a potential all time high. The only reason his agent didn't bark initially is by tagging him the Pat's legitimized his FA "market" value - something he needed considering sooner or later GM's would remember after 2005 they wouldn't have traded us a bag of balls for him. We mid round tendered him last year and he didn't get a sniff of interest for that reason. He was being compared to the guy we tried to sign in FA last year, DeShea Townsend, whom the Steelers consider a very good nickle who can start if he has to. We offered him $4 years $10M, but he re-upped with Pittsburgh for the same money.

Asante was somewhat taken aback by that lack of interest in him and our overtures to Townsend and Law (at $4.5M) and that is likely what prompted his work with a NERF ball last off season. Suddenly because of his double digit INT's he's morphed into a snubbed pro bowler worth more than twice the bonus money this team valued him at just 4 months ago. OK. Only BB believes Asante is a very good player who is a product of his talent and hard work combined with exceptional coaching in a good system. You don't pay those guys top 5 money because the system doesn't even need top 5 players at that position. Just good players who are reasonably talented and highly coachable.

For the record, Clements deal is really a 7 year $64M deal if he ever sees it all. He has a $10M roster bonus due next March which means it could also be a fairly expensive but bailable 1 year deal. I have yet to see a breakdown of Bly's contract. Saying he has $16M in bonuses and "guarantees" could easily mean it could easily morph into a 3 year $5M deal with negligible dead cap and $17M in backloaded salaries. My WAG is Asante believes an elite deal would fall somewhere in between ($5.5-9M), and my other WAG is hell will freeze over before Belioli pays him that kind of money.

The only way this was ever going to work was if Asante still wanted the kind of deal we weren't willing to give him last fall, but were prepared to offer him now. Pioli said on a radio interview a few weeks ago that these negotiations are about more than just money and talent and value - they're about how much a player wants to remain here. So at the end of the day, if Asante wants to "GET PAID" more than he wants to stay here and play here, he's gone.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Does Samuel have the right to talk to other teams about what they'd be willing to pay him and offer in trade? I know he can negotiate with clubs to sign him a pay the franchise compensation picks, but can he negotiate a trade or does he need the Patriots' permission?

If he needs permission, would they give it? You'll remember, when they let Branch look around, it came back and bit them. They basically got accused of bad faith, with the allegation being that letting a player look implies that you have to take a "reasonable" offer.

All Samuel has the right to do is negotiate how much he will be getting paid from the other team.

For obvious reasons he has no authority to negotiate what picks will be involved in the trade. That's up to the team GMs.

I heard Snyder was already snubbed by the Bears so it's possible that he could seek a new suitor, ie New England and Samuel.

The #6 pick this year is not attractive because of the salary slotting and the Skins have been trying to unload it for a while with no takers. There's no way I'd give up both of the Patriots 1st rounders in a trade involving Samuel. Umm if I'm not mistaking we're not trying to GIVE AWAY Samuel, we would be trying to get good value.

A trade that might fly though - Samuel + 24 for Skins #6, Skins 2008 1st rounder. The Skins net an excellent player and a very good prospect at #24.
We would get Landry, the BPA at #28, and the Skins 1st rounder next year which has a chance of being fairly high if they suck again this year. I still kind of want more out of that deal, but adding a stud safety for the next 10 years is somewhat attractive, although the salary slotting is not. Maybe I'd ask for a 2008 2nd rounder too.

The Pats don't have a lot of chinks in their armor as of today, however you gotta admit losing Samuel would be a blow, even those of you who think he's overrated! We'd need to score big in the draft to make up for it.

 

[mgcolby]

I guess this means his deal isn't done and they're just playing possum to throw off the draft pundits...

I hate to say I told you so, but this was never more than a 50/50 proposition at best. Probably closer to 70/30 after the playoffs. Asante wanted a $10M+ signing bonus last November. The Patriots were offering him $7.5M. The only reason they tagged him was because his "buzz" value was at a potential all time high. The only reason his agent didn't bark initially is by tagging him the Pat's legitimized his FA "market" value - something he needed considering sooner or later GM's would remember after 2005 they wouldn't have traded us a bag of balls for him. We mid round tendered him last year and he didn't get a sniff of interest for that reason. He was being compared to the guy we tried to sign in FA last year, DeShea Townsend, whom the Steelers consider a very good nickle who can start if he has to. We offered him $4 years $10M, but he re-upped with Pittsburgh for the same money.

Asante was somewhat taken aback by that lack of interest in him and our overtures to Townsend and Law (at $4.5M) and that is likely what prompted his work with a NERF ball last off season. Suddenly because of his double digit INT's he's morphed into a snubbed pro bowler worth more than twice the bonus money this team valued him at just 4 months ago. OK. Only BB believes Asante is a very good player who is a product of his talent and hard work combined with exceptional coaching in a good system. You don't pay those guys top 5 money because the system doesn't even need top 5 players at that position. Just good players who are reasonably talented and highly coachable.

For the record, Clements deal is really a 7 year $64M deal if he ever sees it all. He has a $10M roster bonus due next March which means it could also be a fairly expensive but bailable 1 year deal. I have yet to see a breakdown of Bly's contract. Saying he has $16M in bonuses and "guarantees" could easily mean it could easily morph into a 3 year $5M deal with negligible dead cap and $17M in backloaded salaries. My WAG is Asante believes an elite deal would fall somewhere in between ($5.5-9M), and my other WAG is hell will freeze over before Belioli pays him that kind of money.

The only way this was ever going to work was if Asante still wanted the kind of deal we weren't willing to give him last fall, but were prepared to offer him now. Pioli said on a radio interview a few weeks ago that these negotiations are about more than just money and talent and value - they're about how much a player wants to remain here. So at the end of the day, if Asante wants to "GET PAID" more than he wants to stay here and play here, he's gone.

Great post. I like the bag of balls thing that was funny and true.

Its funny how short some people's memory can be and I'm not only talking about the GM's.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Does Samuel have the right to talk to other teams about what they'd be willing to pay him and offer in trade? I know he can negotiate with clubs to sign him a pay the franchise compensation picks, but can he negotiate a trade or does he need the Patriots' permission?

If he needs permission, would they give it? You'll remember, when they let Branch look around, it came back and bit them. They basically got accused of bad faith, with the allegation being that letting a player look implies that you have to take a "reasonable" offer.

As a franchised player Asante and his agent are free to talk contract with any team. However that team can't make him a written offer absent paying the tag compensation. So teams never make the offer, but they let the player know they would love to. Then it's up to the player and his agent to use those unofficial offers to leverage the team to either meet those other offers, or decide to sign for something less, or start *****ing and threatening a holdout as a means to laying the groundwork to trade him to someone who will in exchange for compensation they can live with.

 

[mgcolby]

The Pats don't have a lot of chinks in their armor as of today, however you gotta admit losing Samuel would be a blow, even those of you who think he's overrated! We'd need to score big in the draft to make up for it.

I don't think you would get any one (ok maybe someone, but not many) to argue that trading Samuel wouldn't weaken the secondary. But I don't think the drop off would be catastrophic and hopefully the compensation will allow us to continue our habit of garnering extra picks in future drafts - especially the #1's.

 

[amazinPats]

Great post. I like the bag of balls thing that was funny and true.

Its funny how short some people's memory can be and I'm not only talking about the GM's.

Good post, I agree. But I disagree on the characterization of Deshea Townsend as a glorified nickleback. He's a quality starter, imo, and BB/Pioli know it. They figured they could get him cheap last year, but were outmaneuvered.

I've seen a lot of Steeler games, as they televise them quite a bit here in Ohio. Deshea is a lot more consistent than Ike Taylor, who signed a huge contract last year.

 

[italia44]

I guess this means his deal isn't done and they're just playing possum to throw off the draft pundits...

I hate to say I told you so, but this was never more than a 50/50 proposition at best. Probably closer to 70/30 after the playoffs. Asante wanted a $10M+ signing bonus last November. The Patriots were offering him $7.5M. The only reason they tagged him was because his "buzz" value was at a potential all time high. The only reason his agent didn't bark initially is by tagging him the Pat's legitimized his FA "market" value - something he needed considering sooner or later GM's would remember after 2005 they wouldn't have traded us a bag of balls for him. We mid round tendered him last year and he didn't get a sniff of interest for that reason. He was being compared to the guy we tried to sign in FA last year, DeShea Townsend, whom the Steelers consider a very good nickle who can start if he has to. We offered him $4 years $10M, but he re-upped with Pittsburgh for the same money.

Asante was somewhat taken aback by that lack of interest in him and our overtures to Townsend and Law (at $4.5M) and that is likely what prompted his work with a NERF ball last off season. Suddenly because of his double digit INT's he's morphed into a snubbed pro bowler worth more than twice the bonus money this team valued him at just 4 months ago. OK. Only BB believes Asante is a very good player who is a product of his talent and hard work combined with exceptional coaching in a good system. You don't pay those guys top 5 money because the system doesn't even need top 5 players at that position. Just good players who are reasonably talented and highly coachable.

For the record, Clements deal is really a 7 year $64M deal if he ever sees it all. He has a $10M roster bonus due next March which means it could also be a fairly expensive but bailable 1 year deal. I have yet to see a breakdown of Bly's contract. Saying he has $16M in bonuses and "guarantees" could easily mean it could easily morph into a 3 year $5M deal with negligible dead cap and $17M in backloaded salaries. My WAG is Asante believes an elite deal would fall somewhere in between ($5.5-9M), and my other WAG is hell will freeze over before Belioli pays him that kind of money.

The only way this was ever going to work was if Asante still wanted the kind of deal we weren't willing to give him last fall, but were prepared to offer him now. Pioli said on a radio interview a few weeks ago that these negotiations are about more than just money and talent and value - they're about how much a player wants to remain here. So at the end of the day, if Asante wants to "GET PAID" more than he wants to stay here and play here, he's gone.

Well said.........I also believe that Asante hasn't gotten a sniff of a mega-offer from another team.
Sooooooo.....He and his agent are trying to create one to wave in BB/SP's face.

The problem he faces is not the Clements or Bly deals,but what is he worth to the Patriots?

My conclusion is that he is NOT worth it(to BB/SP).This means,unless a team offers the Pats a ridiculous trade,they will stand pat,(inadvertent pun).

Asante and his agent can create a market value,here,but it's an artificial one.Once they realize this,I believe talks will become more reasonable.Again,this is mostly smoke and mirrors
by Asante.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Does anybody here also put into concideration that Asante's year last year being his best was also the weakest schedule we have played since he has been here?

Other years when the team we played were better he was just average.

You gotta admit alot of teams we played last year had some bad QBs and offenses which can make a decent CB look better than usual,alot of bad passes were throw Samuel's way and some of those teams had pathetic WR groups like Tennessee,Buffalo,Miami and Detroit for example..This years schedule is tougher - I think Asante will receed in performance whether hes here or not.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Great post. I like the bag of balls thing that was funny and true.

Its funny how short some people's memory can be and I'm not only talking about the GM's.

No kidding. I remember in December 2005 Deion and Shannon and all the former player talking heads were deriding the Patriots for having NO secondary. Then last December they were all up in arms about what a travesty it was when 'Sante didn't make the Pro Bowl.

BB has been watching and coaching this kid for 4 years now. I think he was never quite as low on him, nor is he quite as high on him. Although I think he likes him a little better now than he did when he was courting Townsend and Law this time last year.

It's a shame too. In this system Asante could probably eventually convince the media voting block to send him to the HOF...but who cares about that when your 25. There is an old veteran saying that when your playing days are over all you have left are your memories and your money. Asante has 2 rings so potentially all that's really left is to secure his money. And it's kind of a catch 22 here because Belioli aren't going to pay the big bucks to guys whose top priority is securing the money.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Does anybody here also put into concideration that Asante's year last year being his best was also the weakest schedule we have played since he has been here?

Other years when the team we played were better he was just average.

You gotta admit alot of teams we played last year had some bad QBs and offenses which can make a decent CB look better than usual,alot of bad passes were throw Samuel's way and some of those teams had pathetic WR groups like Tennessee,Buffalo,Miami and Detroit for example..This years schedule is tougher - I think Asante will receed in performance whether hes here or not.

You can only play the schedule as they say, but yup - half of his regular season picks were off the dynamnic duo of Rex and Pep.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

He's had one season with stats that warrant anything above league average. I don't think 15 mil is jipping him, imo.

This is a little off topic (maybe) but if he signs the tender - he makes nearly 8 mil or whatever 7.79?? guaranteed. If he has 5-7 picks again this season he will get an even bigger contract next season. I realize he runs the risk of getting injured but so doesn't every other player and the team has to take that same risk when they guarantee the money. Throw in the Insurance policies and it becomes a mute point IMO.

Very good point.

I'm not saying i'm right but in todays market 15 mil SB is nothing to these guys.