Are the Patriots signing for class and intelligence, or just "ability"

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yes, the Patriots have one of the best owners, the smartest coaches, and the smartest QB. But in my view their dominance over so many years isn't only due to that.

Because the players are smart, they can execute incredibly complex game plans that other teams could not begin to try and execute

Because the players are classy, they are willing to do what's right for the team without complaining about their statistics, or boasting, and so on.

You can see the Patriots are a breed apart from other teams just listening to them talk, or watching them play.

Hogan, Butler, Edelman, Gronk, Branches, McCourty, Wilfork, Solder, Bennet, White: you can listen or watch these players and they each have something: a certain class that is so far beyond the showboats on other teams that it's like a different sport. 2016 epitomized this; my hope is that as the draft season progresses the Pats retain that specialness that differentiates them from other NFL teams.

I like this post. This offseason has been very un-Patriots like on the surface, but as fans of the team, we all know that oftentimes there are much deeper layers to these deals, and the product on the field shows off their brilliance in retrospect. Still, that's is what these forums are for: discussion. Definitely seems strange the Patriots would give up so much for:

-An incredibly talented WR who mouthed off after a WIN about not getting the ball enough and then had the sound byte "closed mouths don't get fed." And a guy whose team shopped him around to every other team in a desperate attempt to dump him, even though he has, at 23, among the best young players in the league, talent-wise.

-A cornerback with all the ability in the world who has had a lot of ups and downs, who you wouldn't think would be "the guy" the Patriots chose to drop the Brinks truck on, after avoiding these types of deals for so many years. In fairness, Gilmore's defensive coordinator has changed every season. Still, this is a deal I think they would offer to Revis during his prime years, or something along these lines to Butler.

Not that I don't trust in BB...how could you not? Just surprising, though not surprising, because they never do what you think they'll do.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

What is there about cooks that makes people think he is anti Boy Scout?

Andy, who knows but it's ridiculous

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Now, for the record, I'm not happy about this trade. I think what we paid was the chance to rebuild on the DL, and LB in exchange for a WR who is nothing more than a luxury on an already top notch offense.

That being said, now that he is here, I don't think for a minute that he's going to be any problem in that locker room or a distraction for the team. He (although a luxury) will make the offense harder to defend and more explosive. He will add depth and make the WR group younger, and he will help reduce Edelman's snaps to keep him fresher for the playoffs.

This locker room has successfully absorbed much more difficult additions than Brandin Cooks. BUT if he is truly a diva, one of the best things I love about BB, he won't give a sh!t about admitting a mistake and moving on from him. He's not going to sacrifice a threat to the chemistry of the team just so he'll look good to the mediots.

From what's being reported there is NOTHING wrong with Cooks' work ethic, so that's probably the most important part.. As for him "wanting to be fed", that's a complaint that we often heard from WR's, but never heard here. I fully expect Cooks' to address this right away. Every skill player on the offense knows, some weeks it's YOUR week, and some weeks it's not. Doesn't matter if you win. Even Ochocinquo, who went from an 11,000 yd Pro Bowl WR to one who barely caught a pass, kept his mouth shut all year. Marty was another example. And look what happened to Moss the week after he complained about his role. And BB LOVED Randy Moss. So that issue, which is going to be over blown by the mediots, shouldn't be a problem.

As long as the kid works hard and is a good teammate, he can make a reasonable amount of money, have a chance to win a couple of rings, and hit the Jackpot in 2019......for some other team. BB isn't paying a WR over $15MM/yr

For the record, Ochocinco was 33 and well past his prime when he came to the patriots. His legs were gone, his production had dipped to only 700 yards receiving the year before. Ochocinco was unable to learn our playbook which was a big reason he failed, but being 33 years old with severely declining speed didn't help his cause.

 

[Ring 6]

He supposedly whined about not being targeted enough. Not the biggest deal in the world.

Any since that won't fly here it's even less of a deal

 

[TinhWoodhead]

I dislike this entire post. You're not trusting Belichick, which is a mistake.

So what are you implying? That cooks is all ability and no intelligence?

Cooks happened to be one of the hardest workers on the saints team, as far as intelligence, he can run every route in the tree. As far as locker room cancer, didn't they say Corey Dillon and randy moss and martellius bennett were cancer? They seemed to do pretty well in our locker room. Not to mention multiple saints players have already come out saying cooks was never a problem in the locker room.

Don't even compare ochocinco acquisition to cooks. cooks is a 23 year old emerging superstar coming off a 1170 yard 9 TD season. Oh, and he runs a 4.3 40. Ochocinco was an aging 33 year old WR whose legs were gone, and whose production had dropped off dramatically in cincy.

so Chad was cooked and brandin is just starting cookin'

 

[zydecochris]

Now, for the record, I'm not happy about this trade. I think what we paid was the chance to rebuild on the DL, and LB in exchange for a WR who is nothing more than a luxury on an already top notch offense.

That being said, now that he is here, I don't think for a minute that he's going to be any problem in that locker room or a distraction for the team. He (although a luxury) will make the offense harder to defend and more explosive. He will add depth and make the WR group younger, and he will help reduce Edelman's snaps to keep him fresher for the playoffs.

This locker room has successfully absorbed much more difficult additions than Brandin Cooks. BUT if he is truly a diva, one of the best things I love about BB, he won't give a sh!t about admitting a mistake and moving on from him. He's not going to sacrifice a threat to the chemistry of the team just so he'll look good to the mediots.

From what's being reported there is NOTHING wrong with Cooks' work ethic, so that's probably the most important part.. As for him "wanting to be fed", that's a complaint that we often heard from WR's, but never heard here. I fully expect Cooks' to address this right away. Every skill player on the offense knows, some weeks it's YOUR week, and some weeks it's not. Doesn't matter if you win. Even Ochocinquo, who went from an 11,000 yd Pro Bowl WR to one who barely caught a pass, kept his mouth shut all year. Marty was another example. And look what happened to Moss the week after he complained about his role. And BB LOVED Randy Moss. So that issue, which is going to be over blown by the mediots, shouldn't be a problem.

As long as the kid works hard and is a good teammate, he can make a reasonable amount of money, have a chance to win a couple of rings, and hit the Jackpot in 2019......for some other team. BB isn't paying a WR over $15MM/yr

Ken, great post as always.

In my mind, this off-season has been very remarkable from a Patriots standpoint, and I think that there are some completely unique factors at play. Historically, a QB approaching 40 means that a replacement plan is critical, but no QB has ever played so well at this age or taken such good care of his body as Brady. However, despite being so unique, nobody really knows if he can maintain such a high level of injury free performance into his 40's.

Posters have been clamoring for BB to sacrifice the future to "win now" in TB's window for years and years. BB evidently saw that TB's window was longer than we thought, so in the past so he has maintained a long-term approach. This year, he is trading away high level draft picks for young players, moves that make me wonder if he is focusing on winning at least one more ring during a Brady peak-time that may last 2 years or so. Most players don't make their biggest impact until the third year or so. This year, unusually, BB has brought in a high priced (fairly young) DB; he has brought in a replacement (fairly young) TE; and most surprisingly he has traded a 1st round draft choice and more (for the first time ever!) for a young, talented Wide Receiver.

The last move with Cooks has extremely surprising. However, the last time I can remember him trading a high draft choice for a receiver was Welker, and that works out pretty well. I hope that with his eyes he sees something really special in Cooks for the next two years.

I think maybe BB is focusing on one or two more championships in TB's window, while bringing in young enough players for the succession plan and trading high draft picks to achieve that plan.

 

[K. Dog]

What Edelman situation?

Mentioned in another thread of mine: in my opinion, Edelman is underpaid to an extent that is far out of the norm of how much veterans are underpaid on the Patriots. Particularly in light of his career situation and earnings. I think it's a potentially bad situation: Edelman is a sort of offensive leader, and constantly leads by example, sacrificing himself and his stats to win. When players start to see publicly that his genius and dedication aren't rewarded, I think it can undercut his message. There's just something un-Patriot-like about it.

 

[bormio]

Mentioned in another thread of mine: in my opinion, Edelman is underpaid to an extent that is far out of the norm of how much veterans are underpaid on the Patriots. Particularly in light of his career situation and earnings. I think it's a potentially bad situation: Edelman is a sort of offensive leader, and constantly leads by example, sacrificing himself and his stats to win. When players start to see publicly that his genius and dedication aren't rewarded, I think it can undercut his message. There's just something un-Patriot-like about it.

Edelman was a free agent and did not find a better deal. So he was not getting more elsewhere. He has outperformed his contract - but when he signed it was not giving NE any significant discount. Probably won't make much with the next deal sad to say. But he does not seem unhappy about it.

 

[Froob]

Class didn't get the Chargers any Lombardis.

 

[K. Dog]

Edelman was a free agent and did not find a better deal. So he was not getting more elsewhere. He has outperformed his contract - but when he signed it was not giving NE any significant discount. Probably won't make much with the next deal sad to say. But he does not seem unhappy about it.

Suppose you are a software engineer for a tech company. Your boss asks you to work for three years straight. You work 90 hour weeks for those three years. Your brilliance results in a product that makes your company ten billion dollars. All the code is yours and all the hard work. But it's all under NDA: you can't actually prove to another company that it was your work that did it, even though your boss knows. So you can't actually make that much more at a competing company. But still, the best companies will reward you for your work. And if they don't do it, then it's hard to convince other employees to work as hard.

Do you think Tomlin of the "try soft zone against Brady", or Pagano, or whoever is running the Jets these days, or the "seven-step drop on 3d and 1" guys or any of the other intellectually-challenged head coaches or GMs in the NFL have the slightest clue what Edelman does? No, of course not. They understand one thing about a player: his 40 time (and maybe his height), and that's it. If they understood football we wouldn't beat them ever year. And that's what we want! But it ain't Edelman's fault.

 

[bormio]

Edelman's price was set by the market. Other teams offered more, Pats might have ponied up more. In a salary cap world, you pay what you need to - not more. And Edelman seems to like winning SBs - a lot.

 

[patfanken]

Mentioned in another thread of mine: in my opinion, Edelman is underpaid to an extent that is far out of the norm of how much veterans are underpaid on the Patriots. Particularly in light of his career situation and earnings. I think it's a potentially bad situation: Edelman is a sort of offensive leader, and constantly leads by example, sacrificing himself and his stats to win. When players start to see publicly that his genius and dedication aren't rewarded, I think it can undercut his message. There's just something un-Patriot-like about it.

Any more BS like this and you'll be ready to audition for your own radio talk show, K-dog. Are you now writing for Felger, or what. Stop WHINING about paying more money to players who are perfectly happy with what they got. Edelman currently has the 7th biggest cap hit on the roster and it will soon be 6th after DA restructures or is cut.

The Pats gave him his chance. They stuck with him for 4 injury riddled years before his break out season. They were the only ones that made him an offer when he was a FA, and when he produced he got a big enough raise to put him in his current position.

Have you EVER once heard Edelman complain about his financial situation. The man is set for life. And if this is his last season for the Pats he'll go out with a smile and a thank you. Christ you people piss me off.

BTW- where's the thread for supbowl winning C, David Andrews? he's only making $600,000 this season. Where's the thread for Shaq Mason. He is also a starter making only 700,000. Maybe he should hold out for a few seasons. That'll show 'em.

You guys have no idea how it works in the locker room. You all project how YOU would feel and assume that's what THEY feel. It isn't. When their time comes to get paid, they get paid, and when someone else gets paid, they give them a pat on the back, they DON'T get pissed

Malcom Butler isn't pissed Gilmore got paid after waiting 5 years to get his shot. He knows he'll get his after just 4. Why would he be pissed. Did he expect the Pats not to replace Ryan? Of course not. Is he pissed that Ryan got paid. Of course not.

Stop listening to the trolls in the media, K, they expect every player to be just as selfish and self centered as THEY are.

 

[RayClay]

For the record, Ochocinco was 33 and well past his prime when he came to the patriots. His legs were gone, his production had dipped to only 700 yards receiving the year before. Ochocinco was unable to learn our playbook which was a big reason he failed, but being 33 years old with severely declining speed didn't help his cause.

Not knowing where to line up late in the season didn't either. He sucked, he did not run routes correctly when he did figure out where to line up.

 

[RayClay]

Mentioned in another thread of mine: in my opinion, Edelman is underpaid to an extent that is far out of the norm of how much veterans are underpaid on the Patriots. Particularly in light of his career situation and earnings. I think it's a potentially bad situation: Edelman is a sort of offensive leader, and constantly leads by example, sacrificing himself and his stats to win. When players start to see publicly that his genius and dedication aren't rewarded, I think it can undercut his message. There's just something un-Patriot-like about it.

Well, you need to buy yourself a football team and show them how it's done.

 

[RayClay]

Now, for the record, I'm not happy about this trade. I think what we paid was the chance to rebuild on the DL, and LB in exchange for a WR who is nothing more than a luxury on an already top notch offense.

That being said, now that he is here, I don't think for a minute that he's going to be any problem in that locker room or a distraction for the team. He (although a luxury) will make the offense harder to defend and more explosive. He will add depth and make the WR group younger, and he will help reduce Edelman's snaps to keep him fresher for the playoffs.

This locker room has successfully absorbed much more difficult additions than Brandin Cooks. BUT if he is truly a diva, one of the best things I love about BB, he won't give a sh!t about admitting a mistake and moving on from him. He's not going to sacrifice a threat to the chemistry of the team just so he'll look good to the mediots.

From what's being reported there is NOTHING wrong with Cooks' work ethic, so that's probably the most important part.. As for him "wanting to be fed", that's a complaint that we often heard from WR's, but never heard here. I fully expect Cooks' to address this right away. Every skill player on the offense knows, some weeks it's YOUR week, and some weeks it's not. Doesn't matter if you win. Even Ochocinquo, who went from an 11,000 yd Pro Bowl WR to one who barely caught a pass, kept his mouth shut all year. Marty was another example. And look what happened to Moss the week after he complained about his role. And BB LOVED Randy Moss. So that issue, which is going to be over blown by the mediots, shouldn't be a problem.

As long as the kid works hard and is a good teammate, he can make a reasonable amount of money, have a chance to win a couple of rings, and hit the Jackpot in 2019......for some other team. BB isn't paying a WR over $15MM/yr

Offense without Gronk sure didn't make a speed receiver seem like a luxury in 1st half of super bowl. I trust BB to decide what can improve team. Still only four receivers plus Amendola.

 

[Bledsoehasaring]

When we sit back and do nothing..."we need to go all in for brady". When we are active..."yes these guys have talent but are they classy." Jesus i quote the great ray lewis. "Hey kid, you know i killed a guy right?"

 

[patfanken]

Offense without Gronk sure didn't make a speed receiver seem like a luxury in 1st half of super bowl. I trust BB to decide what can improve team. Still only four receivers plus Amendola.

It wasn't for a lack of yds, we had close to 200 yds passing in the first half. It was a matter of not droping balls, missing open receivers, winning 50-50 balls, and of course scoring points

Like I said, this offense WITHOUT Cooks will be very very good. Top 5 at worst. With him it will obviously be better if it works out, but will it get us any more wins, we had 17 last season without him. OR the better question is will it be worth the 2 players we won't have from the top 62. Of course that we will never know now. (unless of course JG goes to Cleveland )

 

[RayClay]

It wasn't for a lack of yds, we had close to 200 yds passing in the first half. It was a matter of not droping balls, missing open receivers, winning 50-50 balls, and of course scoring points

Like I said, this offense WITHOUT Cooks will be very very good. Top 5 at worst. With him it will obviously be better if it works out, but will it get us any more wins, we had 17 last season without him. OR the better question is will it be worth the 2 players we won't have from the top 62. Of course that we will never know now. (unless of course JG goes to Cleveland )

I'm not one for new shiny receivers myself, but I have noticed many end of seasons where certain defenses defended our mid range passing game well. Pile up as many regular season stats as you want. This could give us a guy who simply beats defenders on physical ability and Gronk is the only one who does now IMO.

It will certainly be interesting. BB doesn't believe in anything but winning and he got a good look at this guy in joint practice. I like Hogan in the long game, but I really think part of it is surprising teams. If schemed for, he will be covered, I think.