Anyone else think Beisel can be a good player?

[drew4008]

I know it's impossible to fathom, and impossible to get as far as he has if true, but from what I've seen it seems as though he tries his best to get AWAY from the play, and shy away from contact.

 

[Patjew]

He doesn't SAY the right thing, that's for sure. Non-impact player, IMO.

 

[aabtec]

Or am I the only one? I mean obviously the guy wasn't up for the task last year, but it was his first year in a complicated system. He made a lot of mistakes but he was becoming a special teams demon in Kansas City. I would believe that BB could turn him into a solid starter for us. Obviously Willie will be missed, but a LB core of Vrabel, Bruschi, Beisel, and Colvin sure doesn't have me panicking.

Not likely...

 

[arrellbee]

I honestly don't.......I think that there are "core" and instinctive things that either a guy is doing at this point...or he is not....and not going to. Beisel makes very slow reads......is a POOR tackler......and is often downright lazy (like not continuing to pursue after he has been beaten}.....like the great players do.........I think unfortuneatly he is a bust.....that is probably why the chiefs were in no great hurry to sign him............one man's opinion

Probably the best way to judge is to look at the last game in slo-mo where he got a significant number of reps - so that was after a whole season of coaching and Belichick practices and game reps.

He made one decent play. When Willie got sealed inside on an outside run around the offensive right side, Beisel slid over from his inside spot and made the tackle after a gain of 4 yards. Since there was no block to interfere with Beisel's movement, my suspicion is that Ted J or Tedy would have slid over and stopped the run for little gain or even a loss. Just my impression.

On the first play that Beisel was in he was late getting to a gang tackle on the defensive right side - but he threw his hands up in celebration.

On the couple times when a blocker got into the backfield and took on Beisel, he was basically blocked back 5 yards out of the play and just stopped without even trying to shed off of the block and head toward the runner..

On one play on a run around the left side of the O-line, Beisel got to the runner as Colvin hooked around behind the end and caught the runner by the foot. As the runner is stretching out to get an extra yard, Beisel actually stands up straight and HOPS behind the runner in order to avoid contact. I've never seen anything so ridiculous even in Pop Warner football.

On one play where Beisel moved on the snap up behind Wilfork, the runner hit the gap right beside Wilfork. Beisel not only did not ram sideways and tackle, he just stood there as the runner went thru the gap and was finally brought down after a couple yards. Beisel never even tried to tackle the runner at any time.

On a goal line stand, the runner hit the line just to the right side of Beisel. Not only didn't he ram over to hit the runner (he had a chancer to force the guy sideways short of the goal line), he actually moved parallel to the runner while the runner crossed the goal line. I've never seen anything so stupid in my life. There was another play almost exactly the same in the middle of the field on another drive.

I slo-mo'd all of his plays in that game and other than the one tackle I mentioned first, he was an absolute bust as far as any contribution.

I can't imagine, after a season of coaching and practices, that if he was so fundamentally opposite to what a linebacker is all about (much less a Belichick one), that any additional amount of time could ever get him even close to being even a marginal linebacker.

 

[Alk]

I guess I'll be the only guy to say that I think Beisel has a chance at being a decent starting ILB. I won't argue that he looked just plain bad last season. That was his first season in this system though. I think last year was a good learning experience for him and with Belichick working on him in camp this year, he just might be able to turn the corner. I won't be surprised if he doesn't but I'm not absolutely counting him out.

 

[Coast2CoastPatsFan]

I gotta admit that I thought the Pats had made a solid acquision when they signed him, though I knew he wasn't starter material, just a really good special teams player. He was thrust into the starting lineup right away, not an enviable situation. What I remember about him most this past season was that I didn't see him doing much out there, more often than not just not looking good. Taking bad angles, missing tackles, overpursuiting, being out of position, etc. Disappointing. I don't ever see him being a starter and wouldn't mind if he was released.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Beisel doesn't seem to like contact and let's face it, he's not very physical. So no, he'll never be a player.

Next...

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Montey Beisel good ??? Ahhhhhhhhhh NO

 

[skri65]

He sucks. He's shy. He gets scared. He doesn't have linebacker instincts. He wont be good. He was a project worth pursuing. BB pursued it. "It" failed.

 

[jczxohn1]

He was picked up early in the FA season before last year's draft, which was weak for LB's, IMO, a warm body to fill the gaping hole Bruschi left. A small bidding war for Chad Brown ensued shortly after, whch BB won. If Brown had been available first, we wouldn't have picked him up, I don't think. On a porous KC defense, he had 13 tackles against Carolina early in the yr, and averaged less than 2 per game the rest of the season. A physical specimen, albeit a little light, it remains to be seen if he can put on a little more beef, and, more importantly, decide if he wants to hit or continue his "steer-wrangling" style. If not, IMO, will be a training camp cut.

 

[maverick4]

re

Probably the best way to judge is to look at the last game in slo-mo where he got a significant number of reps - so that was after a whole season of coaching and Belichick practices and game reps.

He made one decent play. When Willie got sealed inside on an outside run around the offensive right side, Beisel slid over from his inside spot and made the tackle after a gain of 4 yards. Since there was no block to interfere with Beisel's movement, my suspicion is that Ted J or Tedy would have slid over and stopped the run for little gain or even a loss. Just my impression.

On the first play that Beisel was in he was late getting to a gang tackle on the defensive right side - but he threw his hands up in celebration.

On the couple times when a blocker got into the backfield and took on Beisel, he was basically blocked back 5 yards out of the play and just stopped without even trying to shed off of the block and head toward the runner..

On one play on a run around the left side of the O-line, Beisel got to the runner as Colvin hooked around behind the end and caught the runner by the foot. As the runner is stretching out to get an extra yard, Beisel actually stands up straight and HOPS behind the runner in order to avoid contact. I've never seen anything so ridiculous even in Pop Warner football.

On one play where Beisel moved on the snap up behind Wilfork, the runner hit the gap right beside Wilfork. Beisel not only did not ram sideways and tackle, he just stood there as the runner went thru the gap and was finally brought down after a couple yards. Beisel never even tried to tackle the runner at any time.

On a goal line stand, the runner hit the line just to the right side of Beisel. Not only didn't he ram over to hit the runner (he had a chancer to force the guy sideways short of the goal line), he actually moved parallel to the runner while the runner crossed the goal line. I've never seen anything so stupid in my life. There was another play almost exactly the same in the middle of the field on another drive.

I slo-mo'd all of his plays in that game and other than the one tackle I mentioned first, he was an absolute bust as far as any contribution.

I can't imagine, after a season of coaching and practices, that if he was so fundamentally opposite to what a linebacker is all about (much less a Belichick one), that any additional amount of time could ever get him even close to being even a marginal linebacker.

Nice work.

I completely agree with everything that was said here. It's nice that someone took the time to SLO-MO and detail his lousy play!!!

.

 

[fgssand]

So ...with overwhelming amount of thumbs dsown for this guy - Why is he still here? What does BB see in him that we are not?

Assuming he stays - is he working out in Foxboro to develop the body? Can his mind absorb the intricacies of our defense? Can he develop that killer instinct? Will his heart embody the swarming spirit of our defense?

I don't think so, but who knows, remember - it took Tedy B a few years.

 

[mgteich]

He's an inexpensive backup who is a solid special teamer. BTW, why would we cut him now. He COULD make the team. We need Training Camp players. There's no rush to cut anyone at this point.

The others were cut because there was a roster bonus due (Starks,Poole, Brown, McGinist).

So ...with overwhelming amount of thumbs dsown for this guy - Why is he still here? What does BB see in him that we are not?

Assuming he stays - is he working out in Foxboro to develop the body? Can his mind absorb the intricacies of our defense? Can he develop that killer instinct? Will his heart embody the swarming spirit of our defense?

I don't think so, but who knows, remember - it took Tedy B a few years.

 

[b72s]

Not Yet, Prove us Wrong Full Monty

I had a similar thread late in the season. Listen he has similar base skills to Tedy in his early years maybe a little lighter.....

I agree he was tenative and may have been overthinking versus playing with intuition.

I am not yet ready to give up yet because it took Tedy a while to get there also.

I think he was embarassed last year at his play and the tough media and snapped a little so he takes pride in his work so step it up

Let us hope he is more comfortable this year and plays more on instinct vs. analysis by paralysis.

BUt he has got a lot to show a lot before people can warm up and hopefully he gets to prove us wrong rather than right...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I had a similar thread late in the season. Listen he has similar base skills to Tedy in his early years maybe a little lighter.....

I agree he was tenative and may have been overthinking versus playing with intuition.

I am not yet ready to give up yet because it took Tedy a while to get there also.

I think he was embarassed last year at his play and the tough media and snapped a little so he takes pride in his work so step it up

Let us hope he is more comfortable this year and plays more on instinct vs. analysis by paralysis.

BUt he has got a lot to show a lot before people can warm up and hopefully he gets to prove us wrong rather than right...

I'll side with the give Monty time folks. :rocker:

 

[stcjones]

wow

I also think there's a decent chance Belichick thinks he can be a good enough starter because as of now he's a starting ILB with McGinest gone. So unless we sign a veteran ILB or draft a guy who can step right in, Beisel is who we've got.

"because as of now he's a starting ILB with McGinest gone. "

There's a slap of reality in your face....hope we pick up another FA then...IMHO don't feel Beisel is going to get it done..

 

[arrellbee]

b72s, Box_O_Rocks
May I quietly suggest that you really should look at tape of his plays late in the season. I'm not kidding about what I layed out in the analysis of his play the last game.

Video shows something very simply - he doesn't even try. It's really hard to believe, I know. I was really interested last year thinking maybe Belichick had stolen another gem. But there is no hope - you can't coach a guy to try at 102%.

I think I object a little bit (actually, I guess, a lot) to comparison to early Tedy B. Tedy always seemed to try his heart out. What he learned over the years was technique and the lightning quick reads to diagnose what the play was about - then he would fight to be in the right position to make a tackle.

You can't seem to make any other interpretation other than if Beisel is blocked, he regards the play as over for him. He doesn't even try to resist. It's almost unbelievable. He doesn't fight the block, try to slide off, or even pursue if the block is half-hearted. Look at the video.

And to not tackle a runner crossing right in front of him ?? ?? ?? ??
If he doesn't do that after a season of coaching and practice, do you REALLY think any additional coaching is going to change that behavior ?? ??

I think mgteich has the gist of it. No bonuses, so he costs next to nothing to carry thru camp and he's a warm body.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

b72s, Box_O_Rocks
May I quietly suggest that you really should look at tape of his plays late in the season. I'm not kidding about what I layed out in the analysis of his play the last game.

Video shows something very simply - he doesn't even try. It's really hard to believe, I know. I was really interested last year thinking maybe Belichick had stolen another gem. But there is no hope - you can't coach a guy to try at 102%.

I think I object a little bit (actually, I guess, a lot) to comparison to early Tedy B. Tedy always seemed to try his heart out. What he learned over the years was technique and the lightning quick reads to diagnose what the play was about - then he would fight to be in the right position to make a tackle.

You can't seem to make any other interpretation other than if Beisel is blocked, he regards the play as over for him. He doesn't even try to resist. It's almost unbelievable. He doesn't fight the block, try to slide off, or even pursue if the block is half-hearted. Look at the video.

And to not tackle a runner crossing right in front of him ?? ?? ?? ??
If he doesn't do that after a season of coaching and practice, do you REALLY think any additional coaching is going to change that behavior ?? ??

I think mgteich has the gist of it. No bonuses, so he costs next to nothing to carry thru camp and he's a warm body.

I might have watched a tape or two last season to reach my conclusions, but thank you for the suggestion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I've bashed Beisel hard ever since TC last year. And his lack of functional football strength proved to me, he should not be on the field with the defense.

And while I do believe the only reason he is still with us is because he's relatively inexpensive, I do think he needs to do the following to break camp with the team after next year's TC.

1.) Lights out particpation in the S&C program. I think it starts March 27th. Use it to get stronger, bigger and faster.

2.) Read the playbook thoroughly and study film relentlessly before TC starts. Put the time in before TC so that the learning curve from TC reps is reduced significantly and he can play instinctively abd without hesitation.

3.) Technique, technique, technique. Pepper Johnson is the DL coach, but he once was a tremendous 3-4 LB. Work extra with him on technique. A lot of his problems stem from poor technique. Put in the time! Dedicate yourself.

4.) Watch the Spranos and Scarface all night every night. Learn from the masters about attitude and being tough and nasty.

I'm thinking a 180 degree turn is needed from him next TC in order to stay with the team.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

Box_O_Rocks
May I quietly suggest that you really should look at tape of his plays late in the season. I'm not kidding about what I layed out in the analysis of his play the last game.

Oh man, that's funny. Who wants to break it to arrellbee?