PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Content Post another late night rant


This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
15,522
Reaction score
27,522
Ok, so I'm listening to those pukes on the Felger and Mazz, and they are doing their usual schtick about how the Bucs season just proved how it was all about Tom and Bill is overrated and got his rep on Tom's back. It's not like I hadn't heard this crap before. And I understand that after 20 years of having to eat Bill's sh!t and LIKE It, the media is going to take any opportunity to get back at the guy who has tormented and made their lives difficult for the last 2 decades. But for some reason this was the one that broke this camel's back. So many MYTHS that they were spouting, I turned them off and started thinking about what I would say to them if I had had them my car. Actually Felger would be the only one in my car, Mazzarotti would have had to listen from the trunk.

Here are what I believe are the myths that most of the mediots and too many of the fans around here keep on propagating.

MYTH ONE: Tom BradY was the sole reason why the Pats were so good for so long and last season proved it.

Now Tom is TRULY the GOAT, and what he's accomplished for SOOOO long is nothing short of miraculous. And he clearly has been the most important individual player of the 2 superhowl runs. So this is NOT about hating on Tom, but rather understanding how interdependent the success of ANY individual player, even the QB is on the rest of the players on the 53 man roster......AND the coaches and systems that they play.

This isn't basketball or hockey where 3 of 4 great individuals can transform a team. This is FOOTBALL The ULTIMATE team game. If having a good/great QB was all you needed, then why have so many great QB's have put up super numbers and didn't win titles or have have won just one or two over lengthy careers. Matthew Stafford is the poster boy of this myth. In the 10 seasons from 2011-2020 Stafford has throw for over 4200 yds 8 times and in one of the 2 years he didn't, he averaged over 300ypg for the 9 games he played. He played 16 games in 9 of those 10 years, and in the only year he DIDN'T get to 4000 he missed by 230 yds The man is a good QB who hasn't won many games when he has played against good competition. I heard this stat, but can't confirm it, but in his 12 years in the league he has won 6 games against teams that finished the season with winning records. I find that hard to believe quite frankly, but it is something I happened to hear coincidently when I switched the channel to WEEI. Do you think Stafford will repeat that THIS year when he is with a good team with good coaching around him like the Rams.

Think about the other great QB's of this era. Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers, , Rothlessberger, even Cam when he was a top 10 QB, All put up great numbers, yet only got to the big game once or twice during careers that spanned over 15 years And think about all the QB mediocrities who DID make it to the Superbowl and some even won it. Christ, Rex Ryan put a really good team around Mark Freakin' Sanchez and got to the AFCG in his 2nd year.

I played the game for a lot of years and coached a lot more. I love the game of football (though a bit less since Polian and Goodell to an axe to it) and quite frankly I take great offense to the Felgers and media marketers of the world who look at the game as being Brady vs Prescott instead of the Buc's vs the Cowboys

Myth 2 - Bellichick chased Brady out of NE because his ego couldn't take the competition, AND didn't want to pay him what he wanted.

Its a nice story, especially in a media market that loves to tear down it's heroes even more than they love to build them up. But it's a scenario that doesn't bear up to close scrutiny. Like other such myths like Bill was forced by Kraft to trade Garropolo in the middle of the 2016 season

Brady leaving was much more about where the team was heading and where BRADY wanted to be at the tail end of his career. Just look back. For a 6 season stretch (2014-19) the Pats were in the playoffs for 6 years, the Superbowl for 4 years, and won 3 of them. When you have that kind of success, it comes with burdens. Most of them revolve around the cap. The Pats pretty much had gone "all in" for a number of years, and by 2019, the cap wall had been hit and hit hard. The Pats entered the 2020 season with a $1MM QB and were STILL up against it. Image what it would have been if they had a $25MM QB.

2020 was going to HAVE to be a reboot season and it showed in the talent level on the field. Well, if you were Tom Brady and at age 43 had a very finite number of year left, would you really want to spend it while your team rebuilt around you for about 2 of the 3 odd years you have left. I don't think so. AND if you loved and respected what he did here for 20 years, you WOULDN'T want him to. Gronk was gone, AB shot himself out of town (by his own actions) and what was left couldn't stand up to the end of the 2019 season, and it was only going to get worse in 2020.

And as far as the myth the Pats didn't want to pay him, let me ask you this. Do you really the difference between 15MM and 25MM was gong to make a SMIDGEON of difference in Tom Brady's life style. It wouldn't have take a foot off his new yacht. It wasn't about the money. It was somewhat about getting out from Bill's shadow perhaps, but never about the money. I just don't see a scenario where he would have stayed. So I was thrilled when he went to a team that accumulated the finest set of offensive skill players in the league...by far. (THREE #1 type WR's, THREE starting quality TE's including the GOAT, and a more than solid running game). I was very happy for him, and then he got even luckier by ending up having what turned into the best defense in the playoffs as well.

What I DON'T understand is why you can't be happy for Tom, and still recognize the brilliance Bill's coaching. The fact that Tom won, shouldn't mean that Bill is a fraud because he had ONE 7-9 year after TWENTY!!!!!! winning seasons in a row So now you understand why Felger's smarmy lead in today "how do you feel about Tom's (not the Buc's) Banner day infuriates me so.

BTW- Great game tonight - TB caught a break at the end, but the home team sometimes gets those calls or non-calls. Didn't watch the entire game, but for what I DID see, Tom looked like Tom (he's still apparently good at football), and Gronk looked like Gronk and then some. Vita Vea was THE beast, and I hope that our run defense looks like the Buc's on Sunday. They shut down a good OL and an excellent RB. 108 passes :eek:
 
Last edited:
I can't stand felger either....his schtick is very predictable
 
Player > Coach

Bill was the reason we were in contention for so long but Brady is the reason we have 6 rings and won the big game.

Bill puts it together - balanced teams all around, cap management, trying to stay ahead of the curve ... The NFL is a crazy talented league. Coaching matters when the margins are so thin, when everyone is a freak. Bill can tip the scales.

The only reason he's in that position though is Brady. Brady is an absolute maniac with serial killer type consistency, patience and attention to detail. I've mentioned this before but playing the QB system is like a barter system - a give & take. No one is as good as Tom at that give & take. Dealing and accepting pressure while not committing - plays (TO). That and how clutch Tom is. Big game, 2 minute, who's better?

Also you can't go on a 20 year run without a 20 year QB. Brady is incredibly durable, flexible in terms of his contract and strictly about the rings & winning.

When you add up the collective there's one QB with all those components.
 
Brady wanted long term deals after winning an MVP and then again after winning his 6th SB. Bill wanted him year to year. That’s what it came down to. Brady wanting to leave simply isn’t true. He left because Bill wouldn’t commit to him for over a year.

At the end of the day Bill is the best coach of his generation, but every coach who’s had a dynasty needed a HOF QB. The QB is the most important person on the team.

2 things that are true:

Brady>Bill

Brady+Bill = Greatest Football Dynasty
 
Nobody really cares what Felger and Mazz think. The entire sports talk industry is built off manufactured drama that the hosts themselves don't believe. You are basically watching the equivalent of Bobby Heenan and Gorilla Monsoon arguing over Hulk Hogan except it's Felger and Mazz having less charisma arguing over Bill Belichick.
 
Human nature to want a hero and a villain in every story. Media long ago decided BB was the villain and Brady was the hero.
BB the villain comes across as cold, brutal stodgy, one dimensional, cruel, disloyal.. Brady the hero comes across as polished, jovial, caring, focused and a great team mate. When the hero and the villain went their separate ways, media decided to amplify the hero versus villain story.
BB does not get enough credit for turning Brady into the GOAT. Brady did not turn into the GOAT by himself. Brady's success in TB is partly due to fantastic coaching from BB and McDaniels early in his career that allowed him to develop great habits and mechanics.

So no, its NOT Brady versus BB.......its Brady is who he is because of BB.
 
Human nature to want a hero and a villain in every story. Media long ago decided BB was the villain and Brady was the hero.
BB the villain comes across as cold, brutal stodgy, one dimensional, cruel, disloyal.. Brady the hero comes across as polished, jovial, caring, focused and a great team mate. When the hero and the villain went their separate ways, media decided to amplify the hero versus villain story.
BB does not get enough credit for turning Brady into the GOAT. Brady did not turn into the GOAT by himself. Brady's success in TB is partly due to fantastic coaching from BB and McDaniels early in his career that allowed him to develop great habits and mechanics.

So no, its NOT Brady versus BB.......its Brady is who he is because of BB.
I agree that obviously Bill along with Charlie and Josh had a big impact on Brady’s career, but the same can be argued the other way. Until Brady Bill was an under .500 coach who found the best player N. American team sports has ever seen in the 6th round.

While I believe Brady was the more important of the 2, it took both of them to create and maintain the sports greatest dynasty.
 
The players win games, and especially championships. Was Phil Jackson the GOAT of coaching or did he happen to coach the single GOAT player and a bunch of other hall of famers? Coaches can put their players in the right spots, provide motivation, call plays, but the player executes.

Brady deserves a Last Dance like documentary where his version of Phil Jackson freely acknowledges his unparalleled greatness but he’ll never get it. If anything Bill considers Brady as one of a bunch of players he could have won with, on a good day maybe he’d generously admit that Brady was good for one or two more rings than some other interchangeable piece, but that’s about it.

And yes I believe Belichick is the best coach in the history of professional football. But he was still a product of his players. Not the other way around. And if Mo Lewis doesn’t nearly kill Bledsoe and Belichick has a second losing season with the Patriots does he get the chance to start Brady the next year like he probably would want to or is Bill out on his ass?
 
Last edited:
If having a good/great QB was all you needed, then why have so many great QB's have put up super numbers and didn't win titles or have have won just one or two over lengthy careers. Matthew Stafford is the poster boy of this myth.
Matthew Stafford is a really bad example dude.

Think about the other great QB's of this era. Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers, , Rothlessberger, even Cam when he was a top 10 QB, All put up great numbers, yet only got to the big game once or twice during careers that spanned over 15 years
Must be a late night for you. Manning went 3 times, Big Ben twice and Rivers has never been. In fact, Rivers should not be in the great category. He’s had plenty of talented teams and didn’t do squat. He had a rough stretch only make 3 playoff appearances in 10 years after 2008.
 
Last edited:
Was Phil Jackson the GOAT of coaching
Actually yes. He routinely out coached the rest of the NBA.
or did he happen to coach the single GOAT player and a bunch of other hall of famers?
Yes and that’s what he’s admitted to want to do. He likes coaching superstars who can’t get over the hump. He did it with Michael Jordan Bulls and the Lakers....twice. If you think the Shaq-Kobe Lakers were good when Phil was there, you should look at their roster before he arrived. They were stacked yet immature, entitled and undisciplined. Dell Harris was a terrible Coach and was allergic to making adjustments. Rambis was even worse. They absolutely annihilate Utah with better coaching in their two straight playoff loses in the late 90’s and San Antonio in the lockout season. The NBA today back then is not like it is today where you can win with pure talent.
 
Last edited:
Great Players > great coach. Pats just happened to have both when we were winning.

Also Brady without Bill > Bill without Brady. Proven. Looks like there’s no Belichick magic or a system after all - I mean he couldn’t make Cam a good QB. But Brady single-handedly turns a 7-9 team into a Super Bowl champion and a team that looks like they’re going to steamroll the league in 2021.
 
Last edited:
“2020 was going to HAVE to be a reboot season and it showed in the talent level on the field”

I know Pats are Super Bowl contenders in 2021 with Brady there is no doubt about that.

“shouldn't mean that Bill is a fraud because he had ONE 7-9 year after”

Nobody believes that. Not even F&M.
 
Last edited:
The entire sports talk industry is built off manufactured drama that the hosts themselves don't believe.
That's all it is. They really don't have anything to say so they make it all up.
 
To say the Brady is greater than BB is folly, both have differing roles.. of course Felger et al want to play on and perpetuate this myth.

Football is a team sport and if it was 1 on 1 that myth might be true, but most of us realize it takes a lot of folks to accomplish the goal in this dynasty. Go back to the genesis of this, if BB had handed Bledsoe the QB position after he returned from his injury, this discussion would have never happen. Going back to those days and modifying the offense to meet Brady's needs was a brilliant move, as time passed it morphed into something much more sophisticated.

Brady thrived in this environment, he also grew and developed beyond what any fan could imagine. I am beginning to think he wanted to leave the Pats so he could move away from BB and firmly establish himself as the goat without being on the Pats, ie keep winning superbowls. These arguments are never ending and only show what effect that sportstalk radio have on our sports culture, they often become the news instead of reporting the sports news.
 
“2020 was going to HAVE to be a reboot season and it showed in the talent level on the field”

I know Pats are Super Bowl contenders in 2021 with Brady there is no doubt about that.

“shouldn't mean that Bill is a fraud because he had ONE 7-9 year after”

Nobody believes that. Not even F&M.
Problem with that analogy is that Brady on the Pats in 2021 ( with his cap hit versus the current QB cap hit for Jones etc) means you don't have the cap room to sign some of the free agents they signed and roster looks very different with $25 million less in cap space.
 
Ken, you’re one of my favorite posters, but why does it bother you that others have different opinions than you do? The last 18 months had radicalized too many of us too much. That’s evident in these threads every day. But, Of all the things under the sun, whether someone favors the player over the coach in the great Bill-Tom debate is very low on the reasons one should be offended by the opinions of others- especially people who produce phoney controversy for a living. “Free your mind, instead”.

Btw, anyone who argues that it was all Brady based on one season should also accept it was all Belichick in the Bill vs. Bill debate as Parcells never won anything without his brilliant DC, but Belichick won 6 without Parcells. Super Bowls won without the other: Brady 1 Belichick 2.
 


MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Back
Top