Alex Guerrero (proxy for Tom Brady) takes shot at BB

[RobertWeathers]

By extending Brady well before 2020, and if Bill didn't like it, tell him to pack his bags.

You believe money would have been the resolution.

I don't believe it would have.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You believe money would have been the resolution.

I don't believe it would have.

Getting rid of Bill, or forcing Bill to change his ways, would be the resolution. I should have clarified, that would go along with with extending Brady before 2020. Also, it was about commitment more than money. I've never thought a dollar amount meant much in the negotiations.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

You believe money would have been the resolution.

I don't believe it would have.

It has nothing to do with money but everything about appreciation and commitment.

how do you think Brady felt after playing at an MVP level and Bill was ready to let him go for Jimmy? How do you think he felt after SB52 where Bill blew a super bowl to make a point? How do you think he felt after he tried to trade Gronk the next offseason? How do you think he felt after asking for a multi year deal and Bill wouldn’t go beyond one year?

i really think money wasn’t a factor until 2019 when after winning a 6th super bowl he tried again for a multi year deal and Bill wouldn’t budge.

In the end his ego got in the way of what was best for the team. I am truly convinced, like many coach here have said, that Bill thought he could win with anybody.

 

[amfootball]

Long-time employee who transcended his profession wants special treatment and is annoyed when it does not happen. How is that even controversial?

Like, I understand why Brady wanted out and I understand why Bill did not want to deviate from the formula. The formula worked because Brady was treated like everybody else. MANY players said that "wow, if Tom Brady is being held accountable, I must watch my ass". Is it normal that Brady grew sick of it? Yes. Should Belichick have adapted? Maybe. It lasted 20 years. 20 YEARS! How often do player and coach cohabit for 20 years?

At the end of the day all of it is just noise. It ended the way it did and it is probably the best for both parties (in terms of happiness, not necessarily on-field results).

LOL. It worked because Tom is the GOAT. Don't get it twisted now.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

LOL. It worked because Tom is the GOAT. Don't get it twisted now.

We got the results we got because Tom was the GOAT.

The formula, in a people's management sense, was viable because Tom was treated like any other player and ACCEPTED IT! The day he did not want to accept it anymore was the day it could implode. If you are a hard ass and you give some people a pass, the rest of the people won't take you seriously anymore and you can have a mutiny when people see injustice. Brady would have been a special case though and people would likely have accepted it.

A guy like Aryans has a different management style that works for him. BB's can only work if there is absolute fairness.

To be perfectly frank, in 2021, I do not like BB's management style (what we know of anyway). I think it should be more of a collaboration.

 

[amfootball]

We got the results we got because Tom was the GOAT.

The formula, in a people's management sense, was viable because Tom was treated like any other player and ACCEPTED IT! The day he did not want to accept it anymore was the day it could implode. If you are a hard ass and you give some people a pass, the rest of the people won't take you seriously anymore and you can have a mutiny when people see injustice. Brady would have been a special case though and people would likely have accepted it.

A guy like Aryans has a different management style that works for him. BB's can only work if there is absolute fairness.

To be perfectly frank, in 2021, I do not like BB's management style (what we know of anyway). I think it should be more of a collaboration.

There were other players who bought in before and during Brady's career. Brady just gets emphasized because he was the best player on the team and the GOAT. In reality, as Arians just showed, you can win a different way with Tom. It is a shame Bill was too stubborn the last 5 years to see that and allow Tom to be the leader of the offense and a defacto coach on the field.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let's also look at it like this: I have never heard a Patriots player say they had any problem with Tom Brady. Whatever he does with his goofy brand is what he does. But when it comes to his commitment, work ethic, etc. how many former teammates have ever said anything negative? None?

I understand Bill is a coach and GM, so he's not going to be popular, but there were a hell of a lot of bad blood splits over the last few years, which is surprising because many of these guys had built a legacy as Patriots.

• Danny Amendola was absolutely pissed, as he took hometown discounts for two years, played really well in 2017 when Edelman got hurt, and then got rebuffed by Bill. And for the contract cost, Amendola was easily worth it for Miami and Detroit. He's still playing.

• LaGarrette Blount had a public feud, too, with the team. Who won in the end? Blount won. He went the Eagles and ran over the Patriots in the Super Bowl. He was pissed that the team gave up on him too soon and let it be known afterwards.

• Rob Gronkowski, one of the best locker room, community guys, no ego, unselfish, hates Belichick. We know this. I've heard it because of personal connections to the Gronkowski family, and it's clear reading between the lines. He wanted a real contract rather than an incentive based one. He wanted to his own rehab. He retired from the NFL to enter wrestling to avoid playing for Belichick. Do you think he's a Bill guy?

So why is it so difficult to think, based on THREE other guys playing in that same offense, contributing to those Super Bowls, that the FOURTH player, Brady, also wanted to continue playing with the Patriots, was insulted/disrespected by Belichick, and left because Bill made the decision for him.

Bill didn't publicly trash any of these guys and kick them out the door. He made it very clear to them, by his lack of interest in committing to similar terms as the free agency market, that he thought they needed him more than he needed them.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

There were other players who bought in before and during Brady's career. Brady just gets emphasized because he was the best player on the team and the GOAT. In reality, as Arians just showed, you can win a different way with Tom. It is a shame Bill was too stubborn the last 5 years to see that and allow Tom to be the leader of the offense and a defacto coach on the field.

Of course there is more than one formula that works.

In TB, ALL vets have preferential treatment. They get days off, etc. Brady gets a say and does act like a coach because, well, he has that credibility. That COULD have worked here, but it would have needed BB to adjust his entire formula.

From a people's management standpoint, I am way more aligned with Arians. From a football standpoint, I do not know enough about Xs and Os to comment.

 

[venecol]

It's not as if the organization covered therapy & training expenses for players who Prima Tompa maneuvered over to the TB12 Clinic & Glute Massage Center

Your fascination with prison shower stories and homo erotic imagery makes your homophobic posts a sure bet that latent homosexuality has set in. Now that Nassib came out, a tough as nails guy, should make it easier for you to accept it man.

Does your wife suspect yet, or does she know? You don't have to answer that.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I always felt like Tommy Boy took criticism well on the rare occasion that he played poorly. I'm not sure that Billy Boy mocking him after a great win while playing with a thumb injury on his throwing hand was constructive though. And chasing him away over dollars, while at the same time taking the most of any other HC/GM, definitly wasn't helpful

I remember that (And the crazy post game attire Bill had on). Bill certainly didn't redeem himself two weeks later either.

"Wasn't like it was heart surgery here". I think was his quote. Not really acknowledging that it was Brady who beat the Jags.

 

[amfootball]

Let's also look at it like this: I have never heard a Patriots player say they had any problem with Tom Brady. Whatever he does with his goofy brand is what he does. But when it comes to his commitment, work ethic, etc. how many former teammates have ever said anything negative? None?

I understand Bill is a coach and GM, so he's not going to be popular, but there were a hell of a lot of bad blood splits over the last few years, which is surprising because many of these guys had built a legacy as Patriots.

• Danny Amendola was absolutely pissed, as he took hometown discounts for two years, played really well in 2017 when Edelman got hurt, and then got rebuffed by Bill. And for the contract cost, Amendola was easily worth it for Miami and Detroit. He's still playing.

• LaGarrette Blount had a public feud, too, with the team. Who won in the end? Blount won. He went the Eagles and ran over the Patriots in the Super Bowl. He was pissed that the team gave up on him too soon and let it be known afterwards.

• Rob Gronkowski, one of the best locker room, community guys, no ego, unselfish, hates Belichick. We know this. I've heard it because of personal connections to the Gronkowski family, and it's clear reading between the lines. He wanted a real contract rather than an incentive based one. He wanted to his own rehab. He retired from the NFL to enter wrestling to avoid playing for Belichick. Do you think he's a Bill guy?

So why is it so difficult to think, based on THREE other guys playing in that same offense, contributing to those Super Bowls, that the FOURTH player, Brady, also wanted to continue playing with the Patriots, was insulted/disrespected by Belichick, and left because Bill made the decision for him.

Bill didn't publicly trash any of these guys and kick them out the door. He made it very clear to them, by his lack of interest in committing to similar terms as the free agency market, that he thought they needed him more than he needed them.

You left off:
Milloy
Law
Ted Johnson
Adalius Thomas
Butler
Mankins
Dion Lewis

 

[MahomestoKelce]

By extending Brady well before 2020, and if Bill didn't like it, tell him to pack his bags.

To be fair, the Patriots didn't have the weapons the Bucs had. And I don't know if there could've been a spending free with Brady.

Do I think the Patriots win the division last year with Brady? Yes. He's obviously a much better QB than Newton. Some of those close losses (Seattle & Buffalo) are likely wins with Brady.

Win the SB? No.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Bill is an employee too. Two employees couldn’t work together. The team/owner chose to let go of the employee that would have helped the team much more. Why is this so hard to understand?

This is ridiculous. How would a 43-year-old Brady have helped the team "much more?" You are assuming that, if BB were gone, (a) Kraft would have hired another coach who was good or elevated Josh McDaniels and won the super bowl and (b) there would be enough weapons for Brady. Moreover, you are assuming that Brady won't retire by age 45 and that Belichick won't coach into 2023 and beyond.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

You left off:
Milloy
Law
Ted Johnson
Adalius Thomas
Butler
Mankins
Dion Lewis

Does Vinatieri count. Or was that just a business decision?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Getting rid of Bill

Exactamundo.

That was the only solution.

The root cause of Tom's departure was Bill's culture and 24x7x365 meat grinder.

Tom grew beyond it and had enough.

Bill knew Tom was unhappy and in addition has changed as a person thus why there was never an extension or offer.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is ridiculous. How would a 43-year-old Brady have helped the team "much more?" You are assuming that (a) Kraft would have hired another coach who was good or elevated Josh McDaniels and won the super bowl and (b) there would be enough weapons for Brady. Moreover, you are assuming that Brady won't retire by age 45 and that Belichick won't coach into 2023 and beyond.

Surely you can figure out that your percentages increasingly greatly in a 2-4 seasons is better than your percentages increasing slightly in 6-8 seasons.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

To be fair, the Patriots didn't have the weapons the Bucs had. And I don't know if there could've been a spending free with Brady.

Do I think the Patriots win the division last year with Brady? Yes. He's obviously a much better QB than Newton. Some of those close losses (Seattle & Buffalo) are likely wins with Brady.

Win the SB? No.

Sure…but that’s just one season. They would have had a greater chance to win last year with Brady, even if their odds were lower than normal. Every year they have him, much greater chance of winning than without him. The “we wouldn’t have won in 2020” is a trick that members like to play here…as though the Patriots own interests are only met if a championship is guaranteed in 2020, even though no other player signing has that standard.

Also, since when was having a spending spree on free agents a good thing? It wouldn’t have been better to have Brady and $25M less for 2021? They overpaid a bunch of mid-tiers guys with that savings.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I think it's fair to say there's some animosity now. Which is sad because Brady & Bill will go down as the greatest coach/QB combo in history.

Both are the best at their job. Nobody has done it better.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Surely you can figure out that your percentages increasingly greatly in a 2-4 seasons is better than your percentages increasing slightly in 6-8 seasons.

At this point, we don't know if Kraft made the right decision. We won't know this probably until Belichick retires. What's better, Brady winning another SB in NE before he hits 45 or Belichick winning 2-3 rings as he builds the second part of the dynasty? I'll take the 2-3 additional rings.

 

[amfootball]

I think it's fair to say there's some animosity now.

It will fade over time for sure.