After 12 games with Mac: which QBs would you take right now over him?

[stinkypete]

Also, I think with the level of qb play we’re seeing in the league right now, top 10 for elite sounds about right. I consider all the following qbs elite right now:

Mahomes
Brady
Lamar
Dak
Rodgers
Murray
Allen
Wilson
Watson

The following qbs are on the cusp of being considered elite:
Herbert
Burrow

I think Mac can easily be considered among the second group if he continues his level of play through to the end of the season.

I'd place Jones one slot below Herbert and Burrow on this list. I believe Jones will ultimately be the better QB, but it will take a couple of years of winning for the masses to look past the volume stats.

I'd add Stafford to a list of QBs who I would rank ahead of Jones right now, and put him at the cusp of the top 10.

 

[moosekill]

No one loves Mac more than me, but this is an overstatement. Lawrence won a National Championship as a freshman, when Mac was still not even a backup. As a soph, Lawrence and Clemson played in the National Championship game against a on-a-roll LSU team led by a red hot Joe Burrow and lost. That year Mac (at the time lightly regarded) was surprising people by his solid performance when starter Tua was lost for the year due to injury. In 2020, to the surprise of many Mac beat out top rated recruit Bryce Young and had a historic season and won the National Championship. So: Mac probably had a better 2020 season than Lawrence, but Lawrence won a National Championship as a freshman and played in another on as a soph.

….I’m still glad we have Mac, and he has clearly been the best rookie QB this year. But saying Mac was better in college than Lawrence is an overstatement IMHO.

Mac had statistically the greatest season ever by a college qb. It certainly can be debated lawrence had a better overall college career, but when you have the greatest season ever it kind of overwhelms that.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Mac Jones has as good an arm as any QB I have seen. The only drawback to Jones is his mobility; his football IQ and arm are top notch. If the draft were to be re-done, Mac should have been picked number one. As I said right after the draft (and few believed me), the Patriots got the steal of the draft and SF really, really screwed up.

One interesting question is who would the Patriots have taken if SF took Mac? If they were smart they would hold off on a QB until a later round...but....

 

[bormio]

Another thing that is very impressive about Jones. He wanted to come to New England. He did so knowing full well he would be compared to the greatest NFL player from the moment he stepped on the field. And that he would almost certainly come up short every time. “Yeah but, Brady did …”. And still Jones wanted that. He embraced it. He has not tried to NOT be Brady - he simply has tried to be the best player he can be and if he gets compared to Brady, so what. Not many players have the self-confidence to pull that off.

 

[woolster22]

Really?! You'd rather not have Mahomes over Mac? Really?! Come on, man. Mahomes has won NFL MVP, won a Superbowl, been to another, is a bonafide star, arguably best player in the game right now, and is still young and will be around for 15 more years.

Mac Jones has had 6 good games against ok-ish teams. Come on!

And how much does he cost? All that running around seems to be catching up a bit this year. A "B" level qb on a rookie contract should net BB 1 more ring run, minimum. Given health, which is no sure thing, Mac has shown all the tools to exceed that metric, IMO.

You think that's worth giving up for a guaranteed SB run (no sure W...thanks Giants) for the next few years of a theoretically improving Mac, (that's the sound of a Reid pouring a scotch and sobbing) for a few years of the 45 Million $ Mahomie before that contract likely strangles the roster?

 

[denverpatsfan]

Looks like Tua will win the division. So I'm in for him.

 

[Pats1971]

So you're saying every year teams pin their hopes on a franchise player who may or may not work out with the first pick in the draft? Lawrence has a much bigger chance of being Cam Newton or Alrx Smith than he does Peyton Manning. I'll take the guy that seems like he was built to run this system and is on pace for OROY.

If Lawrence was draft to the pats he would be doing just fine and you would be humping his leg instead, and laughing at Mac down on the jags getting killed.

 

[Pats1971]

And how much does he cost? All that running around seems to be catching up a bit this year. A "B" level qb on a rookie contract should net BB 1 more ring run, minimum. Given health, which is no sure thing, Mac has shown all the tools to exceed that metric, IMO.

You think that's worth giving up for a guaranteed SB run (no sure W...thanks Giants) for the next few years of a theoretically improving Mac, (that's the sound of a Reid pouring a scotch and sobbing) for a few years of the 45 Million $ Mahomie before that contract likely strangles the roster?

why do you think there is a guaranteed superbowl run?

 

[Pats1971]

If you are talking THIS year alone, then you would take him. If you are talking long-term, you'd take Mac.

How long term? Brady looks better now than he did when he was 30. I still dont know what Mac is. He could go to **** in a year, who knows. I tend to stay with things that I have seen. If I am starting a team and I need a QB for 10 years then yeah a younger QB, but that does not guarantee anything.

 

[Pats2000]

If Lawrence was draft to the pats he would be doing just fine and you would be humping his leg instead, and laughing at Mac down on the jags getting killed.

So many fortune tellers in here. You must be wealthy from all the gambling you win.

 

[catent]

When looking at it from a pure fantasy, "win-now" perspective, it's hard to pick anyone other than Brady.

When looking at it from a pragmatic, realistic perspective, it's hard to pick anyone other than Mac.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree, I don’t think anyone considers him an elite quarterback yet. However, he is playing at an elite level right now based off of all quantifiable metrics. If he continues even at the same level of play through to the end of the season (including playoffs) he will be considered elite (top 10) by the end of the season. Fourth quarter comebacks and game winning drives are circumstantial. Those opportunities do not come all the time. Brady has averaged 2 a season (43 total). Mac already has one under his belt (against the Texans). Im sure he’ll get more opportunities by the end of the season. Cant wait to see how he does.

Sorry, I love the guy. But he isn't playing at an elite level nor will he be considered elite by the end of the season. An elite QB takes over the game. We still don't know yet if Jones is a guy that when there is 1:30 left on the clock and only one time out left that and down by five points whether he can drive down the field for a TD. That is what elite QBs can do. We don't know if the Pats are down by two scores late in the 3rd whether he can mount a comeback.

Jones has shown a lot of the qualities of an elite QB from pin point accuracy, throwing with anticipation, throwing receivers open, etc. But he hasn't shown that he can be that elite QB. Not necessarily his fault since the Pats haven't put him in that position and are asking him to be more of a game manager.

 

[Rob0729]

No one's saying he will be. I'm simply pointing out, ill take the guy whose already playing like the GOAT his first year in the system

But that doesn't mean anything. Justin Herbert had a far better rookie season than Brady did in 2001. Do you think Herbert is going to be the best of all time? Hell, I will argue that Herbert has regressed a bit in year two not progressed.

On the other side, Drew Brees first year as a starter had a pedestrian 3284 yards, 17 TDs, and 16 INTs. And he went onto be one of the greatest QBs of all time. Not quite Brady-like, but not all that far off either. So that is why I say judging Lawrence at this point is not a valid indicator.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

How long term? Brady looks better now than he did when he was 30. I still dont know what Mac is. He could go to **** in a year, who knows. I tend to stay with things that I have seen. If I am starting a team and I need a QB for 10 years then yeah a younger QB, but that does not guarantee anything.

you just repeated what I said essentially

 

[Simpelton]

Here's the scenario. Let's say that the Football Gods visit you, and make you this offer:

You can re-do the 2021 season with any QB who started a game this season as the Patriots' starter instead of Mac.

The catches are:

1. You have to take them as they are now.
2. You have to take them on this team, with these coaches and this offense.
3. You have to keep them for the remainder of their current contract (with whatever outs that contract might have).
4. It's the Football Gods, so you don't have to worry about whether or not you have the salary cap space for the QB; they'll take care of that somehow. You do, however, have to consider whether he'll take up too much salary cap space for you to sign other players in the future.

Which QBs, if any, would you take right now?

Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, end of list.

 

[RobertWeathers]

So many fortune tellers in here. You must be wealthy from all the gambling you win.

I wished for Mac to lead us to #7.

 

[Simpelton]

Um Trevor Lawrence. This is stupid. The team is helping Mac succeed, not the other way around. Get of the qb worship god I’m so sick of that.

Uhh no, sorry. For what this team is and what it does Mac is actually a much better fit than Lawrence. The only reason Herbert and Burrow are guys I would take is that they're further along in their development.

 

[Simpelton]

Over Lawrence? I don't know about that..

I do. Lawrence looks like he should have been a very high ceiling project. He needed time and didn't get it. If he was on the Patriots we'd have a veteran, not necessarily Cam but someone, to take the starts until Bill was comfortable that Lawrence was up to speed. We didn't have to do that with Mac because his more limited skillset came more or less NFL ready and he's a much more polished QB.

 

[Froob]

I wished for Mac to lead us to #7.

View attachment 38244

#7? How about 7.

 

[Fuzz]

Sorry, I love the guy. But he isn't playing at an elite level nor will he be considered elite by the end of the season. An elite QB takes over the game. We still don't know yet if Jones is a guy that when there is 1:30 left on the clock and only one time out left that and down by five points whether he can drive down the field for a TD. That is what elite QBs can do. We don't know if the Pats are down by two scores late in the 3rd whether he can mount a comeback.

Jones has shown a lot of the qualities of an elite QB from pin point accuracy, throwing with anticipation, throwing receivers open, etc. But he hasn't shown that he can be that elite QB. Not necessarily his fault since the Pats haven't put him in that position and are asking him to be more of a game manager.

I agree, and i think it's just semantics. When i say "playing at an elite level", i mean on a play by play basis, he's playing like elite quarterbacks do. Since week 3, he's been among the leaders in all the productivity metrics used for QB's (yards and td's cant be used because they depend on playcalling). However, he won't be considered an "elite qb" until he proves he can put the team on his back in crucial situations. He hasnt passed that test yet, but he hasnt failed yet either. We will just have to wait and see when they arise. However, since he has already displayed he can "play at an elite level", I'm very optimistic he will meet that challenge.