After 12 games with Mac: which QBs would you take right now over him?

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Oh yeah, I forgot that "he's baaaack!" How's he doing?

Putting Cam Newton’s horror show at the Dolphins into context

It's easy to point the finger at Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton following the team's disastrous loss at the Miami Dolphins in Week 12.

catcrave.com

 

[zydecochris]

Not to mention the biggest factor of all. Mac lives and breathes football. It was wildly known that Lawernce is only an average enthusiast of the sport. Knowing what we know now after 12 weeks, Id take Mac the super competitor, over the more talented individual whos on the record several times explaining how "There's more to life than football" & "I'd still be happy if I wasn't playing football" type of wonderboy who was labeled the next great before he even threw a single NFL pass.

Everything about Lawernce screams Luck 2.0 to me.

After seeing Lawrence in college playoffs I’m not convinced he will be a bust, but you’ve made a really good point. Everything has always been easy for Lawrence and he has been the golden boy all his life. If he DOES bust, it will likely be for the reason you stated. Good post.

 

[Ian]

Putting Cam Newton’s horror show at the Dolphins into context

It's easy to point the finger at Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton following the team's disastrous loss at the Miami Dolphins in Week 12.

catcrave.com

It's amazing how he continues having apologists. It's OK to just not have it anymore. Having the dignity to admit it and walk away is much better than insisting there are other problems other than the simple inability to process things fast enough to play at the level he needs to.

After all, he's taken some unreal hits, he's been concussed, etc. But he needs to accept his best days are behind him and that he might just be done. The same might be said for Darnold. Although Darnold is young enough where maybe spending a year or so as a back-up might help him. Either way, I love Cam, but at his age, it just might be a situation where everything has finally simply caught up with him.

 

[Patsfan1958]

 

[1960Pats]

Putting Cam Newton’s horror show at the Dolphins into context

It's easy to point the finger at Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton following the team's disastrous loss at the Miami Dolphins in Week 12.

catcrave.com

Boy we dodged a bullet there.

 

[Fuzz]

haha isnt that Damien Harris? Didnt know they went that far back

 

[Pats2000]

I am saying that teams overvalue QB prospects over other positions because this is a QB driven league. The general consensus this year was that Lawrence was the clear best talent in this year's draft followed by Penei Sewell and Kyle Pitts. Yet, three QBs were drafted before either Sewell or Pitts. And Trey Lance wasn't on anyone's that I know of top 10 on their big board. He was generally considered to be in the teens or twenties in terms of top talent in the draft, yet he went third.

And of course Lawrence is more likely to be less than Manning. Manning is a top 3-5 QB of all time. The odds of any QB prospect being as good as Peyton Manning no matter how good they are coming out of college is remote. That doesn't mean that Lawrence wasn't considered a generational type of talent coming out of college and is far better coming out of college than many of the QBs you listed. Again, some of guys you listed weren't even consensus to be the best QB coming out of their respected drafts never mind being the first overall pick.

And my point is that doesn't matter, because considered generational talent or not, that doesn't drive actual success. Lawrence may turn out to be way overvalued at #1, 3 years from now. Mac might have been the steal of the draft. Or vice versa. I'm saying there;s no way in hell I take Lawrence over Mac at this point in some alternate reality. Mac is on pace for OROY, why woudl I want Lawrence who may not be able to process a Defense like Mac can.

 

[Rob0729]

And my point is that doesn't matter, because considered generational talent or not, that doesn't drive actual success. Lawrence may turn out to be way overvalued at #1, 3 years from now. Mac might have been the steal of the draft. Or vice versa. I'm saying there;s no way in hell I take Lawrence over Mac at this point in some alternate reality. Mac is on pace for OROY, why woudl I want Lawrence who may not be able to process a Defense like Mac can.

Lawrence still has far, far more potential upside than Jones.

Sam Bradford was an OROY. So was Vince Young, RGIII, and Matt Ryan. You know who weren't? Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Patrick Mahomes. The OROY doesn't mean anything. You look at the OROYs and there are a lot of players who never became elite players and some who peaked quickly after their rookie season.

You are putting too much stock in 11 games and both these guys talents. I love Mac Jones and have high expectations of him, but I expect Lawrence to be an elite QB assuming the Jags don't ruin the guy.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If you are talking THIS year alone, then you would take him. If you are talking long-term, you'd take Mac.

The question was for this season. That’s why my answer was Brady.

 

[Pats2000]

Lawrence still has far, far more potential upside than Jones.

Sam Bradford was an OROY. So was Vince Young, RGIII, and Matt Ryan. You know who weren't? Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Patrick Mahomes. The OROY doesn't mean anything. You look at the OROYs and there are a lot of players who never became elite players and some who peaked quickly after their rookie season.

You are putting too much stock in 11 games and both these guys talents. I love Mac Jones and have high expectations of him, but I expect Lawrence to be an elite QB assuming the Jags don't ruin the guy.

I'm putting stock in the fact that the guy is playing the position a lot like the GOAT right now. I want the guy that's hungry, not the guy that could "live without football"

 

[moosekill]

Lawrence still has far, far more potential upside than Jones.

This just plain isn't true. This is perhaps the dumbest thing ever written. NO HE DOESN'T. Any more than Andrew Luck has more potential upside than Brady had. Potential upside isn't a thing. How in the hell does anyone know what a players potential upside is. You are simply basing this on what some college scouts said. Not looking at the body of work. Stop.

 

[oldrover]

This question is just unreality. It ignores what QBs are getting paid. Sure, pick Mahomes... and then whack $40 mil off your roster? Come on.

 

[PaulThePat]

Worst thread ever. Let's talk about how much better these other QBs are than our own one. Why?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

haha isnt that Damien Harris? Didnt know they went that far back

Yea they're actually pretty tight.

 

[Calhoun44]

Comments:

1.) There's no way to answer the question as the OP framed it. Ages, Contract Sizes, Team Situations, Personnel, and etc.. are HUGE variables and must be considered. For example, would we be better than 8-4 with Tom Brady playing all 12 games? I think so, but do I want Brady and his 25M salary? Would we have been able to add Henry/Smith or Algholor/Bourne or Judon to this team with Brady taking up a significant chunk of the cap? Another example, Russell Wilson...would he work in this offense predicated on the short passing game?

2.) I think this question should be framed as WHERE does Mac rank vs. all 32 starting QB's right now....in a vacuum....ignoring personnel, salary, age, and etc... like if planet earth had to play a football game against an invading alien race...and we assemble the perfect football team...and now make a list of QB's we want to save the planet. Here's my list:

Tom Brady - Nobody has played in more BIG games nor won as much.
Patrick Mahomes - Most talented QB in the league, IMO. Doesn't need his legs to move the ball, but can use them.
Aaron Rodgers - Same as above...could be #2 on my list as well.
Russell Wilson - Not as much of a "quarterback" as the QB's above, but he does affect games and make something out of nothing.
Dak Prescott - I thought he was a MVP candidate early in the season myself.
DeShaun Watson - If he were playing, he would probably be ranked higher here.
Justin Herbert - Clutch plays and very advanced for a 2nd year guy.
Kyler Murray - Possibly more talented than some above, but we need to see more.
Lamar Jackson - Best running QB the league has ever seen....really affects the game and stretches defenses sideline to sideline.
Josh Allen - Not as good of a runner as above, but a better passer.
Joe Burrow - He's the original Mac Jones with better receivers, IMO.
Mac Jones - Joe Burrow/Chad Pennington 2.0 is what I see right now....maybe better some day.
Derek Carr - He's been very solid this year despite the turmoil on the team.
Kirk Cousins - Consistently good, but MVP/All Pro caliber?
Matthew Stafford - Shaky performances, but has the talent.
Matt Ryan - Shaky performances, but has the talent.
Tyler Heinicke - I like the kid....should have been the starter week 1 over Fitzy.
Jimmy Garopollo - He is what I was hoping Mac Jones would be...
Trevor Lawrence - He will start putting it together and move up the list.
Tua Tagovailoa - See above...I think Tua is playing A LOT better lately.
Ryan Tannehill - A lot like Kirk Cousins & Jimmy G above...consistently good and can manage things.
Ben Roethlisberger - Used to be a lot better...not so much right now. Maybe with a good line/better weapons.
Baker Mayfield - Shaky performances and I am not sure how much it is him or the personnel he has at his disposal.
Carson Wentz - Shaky....I think he's an one trick RPO pony QB.
Justin Fields - Will rise...I think we started to see glimpses of it against the Steelers a few weeks back.
Teddy Bridgewater - Just doesn't move the needle.
Zac Wilson - Needs to be more conservative and better personnel...but has the tools.
Jalen Hurts - I don't think he even looks beyond his first option before running with the ball.
Daniel Jones - Doesn't move the needle.
Cam Newton - Used to be good, but still an effective runner at the goal line. Hard one to figure out...looked good in pre-season here.
Taysom Hill - Dunno why he didn't win the job over Winston. We will find out.
Jared Goff - I think he's the worst starting QB in the league right now.

But what defense do the aliens play? We might need a running QB like Cam if they are all really fast but not heavy in the trenches. We need a scouting report.

 

[Fuzz]

This just plain isn't true. This is perhaps the dumbest thing ever written. NO HE DOESN'T. Any more than Andrew Luck has more potential upside than Brady had. Potential upside isn't a thing. How in the hell does anyone know what a players potential upside is. You are simply basing this on what some college scouts said. Not looking at the body of work. Stop.

I completely agree. All this talk about "ceilings" and "potential upside" mean next to nothing for QB's. The true limits of the position are mental, not physical.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm putting stock in the fact that the guy is playing the position a lot like the GOAT right now. I want the guy that's hungry, not the guy that could "live without football"

Jones is not playing like Brady right now. He is playing great, but let's not go overboard.

 

[Rob0729]

This just plain isn't true. This is perhaps the dumbest thing ever written. NO HE DOESN'T. Any more than Andrew Luck has more potential upside than Brady had. Potential upside isn't a thing. How in the hell does anyone know what a players potential upside is. You are simply basing this on what some college scouts said. Not looking at the body of work. Stop.

Yes, he absolutely does. Lawerence has the potential to be a top 5-10 QB of all time. He may never come close to reaching that potential, but that is his potential. Jones doesn't doesn't have that potential.

Potential only means anything if it is reached though.

 

[Guts]

I'm elated with the pick it seems we have our guy moving forward. But to be fair to him we can't expect him to be what TB12 became. He's growing each game and it's very encouraging to see. I do want to see how he does in the postseason. That's where the true franchise changing Quarterbacks separate themselves.

 

[Fuzz]

Jones is not playing like Brady right now. He is playing great, but let's not go overboard.

Mac has been playing at an elite level since the saints game. 4th in the league in passer rating during the last 9 weeks. 1st in the league during the last 4 weeks

Highest Passer Rating NFL Starter Qbs In Last 9 Games With Minimum 5 Games | StatMuse

Taysom Hill has the best passer rating by a quarterback as a starter when playing 5+ games in his last 9 games, with a 118.8 rating.

www.statmuse.com

Highest Passer Rating NFL Starter Qbs In Last 4 Games With Minimum 3 Games | StatMuse

Joe Burrow has the highest passer rating by a quarterback as a starter when playing 3+ games in his last 4 games, with a 111.2 rating.

www.statmuse.com