Affording Changes To The Defensive Front Seven

[mgteich]

It's not a position with as many 1st round draft choices.

Last year, 5 CBs went in the first. 0 DTs/NTs.
2020: 6 CBs, 2 DTs (Derrick Brown, Rod Kinlaw).

Then you look at the top CBs in the NFL (according to PFF):

1. Jalen Ramsey, Los Angeles Rams. ...
2. Jaire Alexander, Green Bay Packers. ...
3. Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills. ...
4. Trevon Diggs, Dallas Cowboys. ...
5. Marlon Humphrey, Baltimore Ravens. ...
6. Marshon Lattimore, New Orleans Saints. ...
7. Xavien Howard, Miami Dolphins. ...
8. Stephon Gilmore, Carolina Panthers.
9. Denzel Ward
10. JC Jackson

JC is an anomaly. All the others are 1st round picks.

Then I look at what are considered the top DT/NTs and you have players like Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Grady Jarrett, DJ Reader who are in the top but aren't 1st rounders:

It really seems like you need to spend a 1st if you want an All-Pro CB but the opposite is not true.

OK, I agree that the first round is the place to get top corners and top DE's, and perhaps even DT's

Unless both Jackson and McCourty are extended, by FAR the biggest need is at CB.

Also, let us say that we absolutely bring in a CB and a DT. One is our first rounder, one is a top-level free agent and one is a 2nd rounder, I think that signed a corner in the first, and a DT or CB in the second, and a DT or CB in free agency is more cost=effective than other options.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Biggest need is defensive tackle. The run defense has sucked for 3 yrs. If they had a good front 7 they could cover up the back end a bit

 

[mgteich]

Biggest need is defensive tackle. The run defense has sucked for 3 yrs. If they had a good front 7 they could cover up the back end a bit

IMO, adding
a couple of DT's won't make up for losing Jackson and McCourty.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The front seven was not all that bad last year. But with the expected hits in free agency, Hightower, Bentley, Collins, etc. we need help.

we had 16 linebackers on the roster last season, counting ir. Some of those guys have to step up big time in 2022.

corner was thin with jones being injured and Gilmore departing. this draft is deep in corners, so we can get a good one on day 2 or 3. I expect bb to franchise jackson.

pass rusher is a blaring hole. Outside of judon, we got squat. We desperately need wise to be a depth piece and not a starter. Pass rushers are gold and go very early, but this draft is really deep in pass rushers and I think our first round draft pick should be on a pass rush

Free safety is a monster hole if we do not resign mccourty, however I fully expect us to resign him. two years for a total of 6 million sounds about right.

bb has some cap work to do this offseason, but we should be able to make it work.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Is there any good DTs/NTs in the draft this year? @BaconGrundleCandy

Jordan Davis & Devonte Wyatt of UGA, Phidarian Mathis of Alabama, Travis Jones of UConn & John Ridgeway of Arkansas are exactly the type of DTs we need but who will all likely be gone before Day 2 is over...

Capt has been listening

Also ...
Peevey, Davidson, McCall and Hinton

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

IMO, adding
a couple of DT's won't make up for losing Jackson and McCourty.

Jalen mills will shift to McCourty position. Hopefully place the franchise or transition tag on Jackson. It will be painful at cb

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

The front seven was not all that bad last year. But with the expected hits in free agency, Hightower, Bentley, Collins, etc. we need help.

we had 16 linebackers on the roster last season, counting ir. Some of those guys have to step up big time in 2022.

corner was thin with jones being injured and Gilmore departing. this draft is deep in corners, so we can get a good one on day 2 or 3. I expect bb to franchise jackson.

pass rusher is a blaring hole. Outside of judon, we got squat. We desperately need wise to be a depth piece and not a starter. Pass rushers are gold and go very early, but this draft is really deep in pass rushers and I think our first round draft pick should be on a pass rush

Free safety is a monster hole if we do not resign mccourty, however I fully expect us to resign him. two years for a total of 6 million sounds about right.

bb has some cap work to do this offseason, but we should be able to make it work.

The front 7 being bad or good depended on the competition.. against playoff teams they were bad

 

[upstater1]

I don't want to get into a numbers game, but 14 members of the NFL Hall of Fame were defense backs, (cornerbacks or safeties) taken in the first round. Eighteen members of the NFL Hall of Fame were defensive linemen (tackles or ends) taken in the first round.

But the HoF has players from 50 years ago when the game was played differently? Like, who would you rather have back then, Ted Karras' uncle or Lem Barney? I'd take Karras's uncle.

 

[upstater1]

You posted “the top 10 corners according to PFF” and then “those considered the best NT/DT”. I’m saying his good is your comparison if it’s 2 different sources? Why not use PFF rankings for both?

Secondly you said you were talking about NT/DT which I consider a different group of players that DT/DE.
I was under the impression you were talking about a space eating run stopped while plays between the Gs not a smaller more mobile type who plays outside the G. They are different players.
“It’s what I googled” didn’t cheat that you for me.

Constantly confused as to what you're responding to because in every post I've said I took the rankings from the same exact source.

I even posted the links.

I responded to you this way several times.

 

[sb1]

So glad we saw Dugger make that second year leap into a difference maker back there. Wasn’t sure it would happen but it happened.

 

[p8ryts]

You are certainly right. Hell, we may already have Wilfork 2 on the roster in Barmore. But if we did get lucky with a later in the first round DL, can you imagine? What if we got a Ted Washington 2 or a Keith Traylor 2 to play beside our Wilfork 2 in Barmore. That could rival the Seymour/Wilfork/Warren line.

be still my heart. The last we had a good interior was Akiem Hicks and the other guy whose name escapes. They were legitimately good. My all time favorite is Ted Washington.

 

[Ring 6]

Constantly confused as to what you're responding to because in every post I've said I took the rankings from the same exact source.

I even posted the links.

I responded to you this way several times.

One more time. Here is the post that I have been referring to all along.
You list the top 10 corners PER PFF
Then write names of WHO ARE CONSIDERED the top NT/DTs and throw out 4 names only 1 of which plays in the nose
The point of my post was a list of PFF top 10 and “guys considered best” are inconsistent and an analysis of NT types should include only NT types.

Found both in google doesn’t make them consistent because they are coming from different places and top 10 rankings vs selecting a few names out of an article naming many is not consistent. On top of that the discussion was about inside run stoppers not 34 DEs playing outside G to over T.

Does that clear it up?

It's not a position with as many 1st round draft choices.

Last year, 5 CBs went in the first. 0 DTs/NTs.
2020: 6 CBs, 2 DTs (Derrick Brown, Rod Kinlaw).

Then you look at the top CBs in the NFL (according to PFF):

1. Jalen Ramsey, Los Angeles Rams. ...
2. Jaire Alexander, Green Bay Packers. ...
3. Tre'Davious White, Buffalo Bills. ...
4. Trevon Diggs, Dallas Cowboys. ...
5. Marlon Humphrey, Baltimore Ravens. ...
6. Marshon Lattimore, New Orleans Saints. ...
7. Xavien Howard, Miami Dolphins. ...
8. Stephon Gilmore, Carolina Panthers.
9. Denzel Ward
10. JC Jackson

JC is an anomaly. All the others are 1st round picks.

Then I look at what are considered the top DT/NTs and you have players like Chris Jones, Calais Campbell, Grady Jarrett, DJ Reader who are in the top but aren't 1st rounders:

It really seems like you need to spend a 1st if you want an All-Pro CB but the opposite is not true.

 

[upstater1]

One more time. Here is the post that I have been referring to all along.
You list the top 10 corners PER PFF
Then write names of WHO ARE CONSIDERED the top NT/DTs and throw out 4 names only 1 of which plays in the nose
The point of my post was a list of PFF top 10 and “guys considered best” are inconsistent and an analysis of NT types should include only NT types.

Found both in google doesn’t make them consistent because they are coming from different places and top 10 rankings vs selecting a few names out of an article naming many is not consistent. On top of that the discussion was about inside run stoppers not 34 DEs playing outside G to over T.

Does that clear it up?

Oh my god. I provided the links for both lists. What more do you want? Same source.

 

[Ring 6]

Oh my god. I provided the links for both lists. What more do you want? Same source.

There is no link in that post.
You posted something later about “best dl” but it wasn’t PFF and it listed a bunch of players most of whom you left out.

Is it that hard to understand this:

I am going to prove where the best players at different positions come from in the draft.
To do so I will provide a TOP TEN analysis in one position from a site that some people believe does a good grade of film and grading play.
For the other I found some guy who wrote an article on the internet (the one you later posted) that lists DL he thinks are the best ones and I’m going to throw out 4 names that were mentioned in the article.

That is my point your methodology stinks, and the response “they both came up on google” is worse.

 

[upstater1]

There is no link in that post.
You posted something later about “best dl” but it wasn’t PFF and it listed a bunch of players most of whom you left out.

Is it that hard to understand this:

I am going to prove where the best players at different positions come from in the draft.
To do so I will provide a TOP TEN analysis in one position from a site that some people believe does a good grade of film and grading play.
For the other I found some guy who wrote an article on the internet (the one you later posted) that lists DL he thinks are the best ones and I’m going to throw out 4 names that were mentioned in the article.

That is my point your methodology stinks, and the response “they both came up on google” is worse.

Sigh. I provided the links on the second post. I have no idea what else you want.

Both were from Profootballnetwork.

Why is this hard to understand. They are not 2 separate sources. THEY ARE THE SAME SOURCE. The first post I made on this matter also used that source.

AND, it doesn't even matter since the DT list contains several players who were not first rounders!

That's the main point. Use any other source!

 

[Ring 6]

Sigh. I provided the links on the second post. I have no idea what else you want.

Both were from Profootballnetwork.

Why is this hard to understand. They are not 2 separate sources. THEY ARE THE SAME SOURCE. The first post I made on this matter also used that source.

AND, it doesn't even matter since the DT list contains several players who were not first rounders!

That's the main point. Use any other source!

Your first post, the one I have been referring to, said it was a ranking from PFF. The link you provided was a google result of cb rankings with PFF RANKINGS as the top hits. The link to DL was an article from pro football network.

I realize they both have pro football in their name but they are not the same place.

 

[upstater1]

Your first post, the one I have been referring to, said it was a ranking from PFF. The link you provided was a google result of cb rankings with PFF RANKINGS as the top hits. The link to DL was an article from pro football network.

I realize they both have pro football in their name but they are not the same place.

No, incorrect.

I said they were PFF in the first post but I was wrong (I dont follow pff, I don't really didn't care, I took them off Google). But it was really proftooballnetwork all along.

Look at the links.

Both are profootballnetworks.

 

[Ring 6]

No, incorrect.

I said they were PFF in the first post but I was wrong (I dont follow pff, I don't really didn't care, I took them off Google). But it was really proftooballnetwork all along.

Look at the links.

Both are profootballnetworks.

Your first posts says the corner list was from PFF.
You said it.

Also of the 4 players you listed as “considered the best” only 2 were in the top 10 ranking you later said was your source and you left out the other 8.

The cornerback link was a google search. There is no link to an article with those rankings. Wow you are making this way harder than it has to be.

 

[captain stone]

IMO, adding a couple of DT's won't make up for losing Jackson and McCourty.

We can keep DMac & JC and still find a couple of DTs >>> what we had this season.