Aaron Hernandez VS Jimmy Graham

[ivanvamp]

Drew Brees IS an accurate passer, but it's possible to be good and still be overrated. His accuracy is talked about like it's otherworldy, and that's simply not the case.

I've posted this elsewhere, but consider this. Brees, Rodgers, and Brady, passes that travel 21+ yards downfield (what we would consider "long" passes):

Brees: 23-50 (46.0%), 11 td, 2 int
Rodgers: 28-54 (51.9%), 12 td, 1 int
Brady: 13-40 (32.5%), 6 td, 0 int

Whatever they do on short and intermediate routes, Brees and Rodgers certainly are much accurate on long passes than Brady is. By a really wide margin.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've posted this elsewhere, but consider this. Brees, Rodgers, and Brady, passes that travel 21+ yards downfield (what we would consider "long" passes):

Brees: 23-50 (46.0%), 11 td, 2 int
Rodgers: 28-54 (51.9%), 12 td, 1 int
Brady: 13-40 (32.5%), 6 td, 0 int

Whatever they do on short and intermediate routes, Brees and Rodgers certainly are much accurate on long passes than Brady is. By a really wide margin.

While I do think that Brees and Rodgers are better long throwers than TB, check out TBs numbers in 2007 w/ Moss, Stallworth, etc. over 21 yds.

28/69 40% 15 TD 5 INTs w/ QB rating around 104.

My point, give him the talent and he'll get 'em the ball. Those are all outdoor games except 1.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re-watched the game on replay last night. Boy, did Aaron Hernandez look quick. Like he did earlier in the season before he injured his knee. Made some nice moves after his catches. Also, looked really fast on that sweep when he lined up in the backfield as a rb. Turned the corner effortlessly. He used to line up at that position at Florida. Tebow would either give it to him to run up the middle. Or, keep it. I'd like to see us throw to him out of that formation. Should be able to get an easy matchup with a lb if lined up there. You're gonna have 3 WR's on the field. Run the cb's deep with 2 wr's. Gronk up the seam. Should leave Welker and Hernandez with very easy matchups.

I voted for Jimmy Graham. But, I think Aaron is going to have a killer finish to the season and playoffs.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Wouldn't that mean that Brees is smart for taking the easy pass the defense concedes?

Usually, his dump offs are designed...

And don't get me wrong, it's effective and if I were a QB I would do it too. My only point is that he gets too much credit for his accuracy, that's all. People need to start calling it like it is.

Drew Brees is a great QB with great accuracy, that operates a great system that is very effective. But to drool over his accuracy is misleading. If he completed more passes to WRs rather than the amazingly high number 35% that travel 5 ft to a RB, his competion percentage would be lower and around 65% with Brady and people wouldnt be obsessed with his accuracy.


That's all.

 

[patfanken]

Jimmy Graham is not even a close second to Gronk?

I voted for Graham obviously.

There isn't much of an issue between Graham and Hernandez, as both are predominately receiving TEs. But there is equally no question of who is better between Gronk and Graham. While an there is an arguement that can be made on both as receivers, Graham isn't even in the same Galaxy as Gronk as a Blocker. And I know this is hard for Saint fans to process, but blocking IS one aspect you have to incorporate when evaluating a TE

 

[RobertWeathers]

Usually, his dump offs are designed...

And don't get me wrong, it's effective and if I were a QB I would do it too. My only point is that he gets too much credit for his accuracy, that's all. People need to start calling it like it is.

Drew Brees is a great QB with great accuracy, that operates a great system that is very effective. But to drool over his accuracy is misleading. If he completed more passes to WRs rather than the amazingly high number 35% that travel 5 ft to a RB, his competion percentage would be lower and around 65% with Brady and people wouldnt be obsessed with his accuracy.


That's all.

What a ridiculous premise. Sheesh.

5 ft, huh? I challenge you to review all of Brees' 583 pass attempts and find 204 of them that were thrown within 5ft of Brees' position in the pocket.

Passes to RBs are typically 10-12 yards diagonally, vertically or horizontal to the line of scrimmage. His targets are also moving and he needs to lead them away from oncoming defenders and facilitate YaC.

Brees deserves every bit of credit for his accuracy.

 

[pherein]

Usually, his dump offs are designed...

And don't get me wrong, it's effective and if I were a QB I would do it too. My only point is that he gets too much credit for his accuracy, that's all. People need to start calling it like it is.

Drew Brees is a great QB with great accuracy, that operates a great system that is very effective. But to drool over his accuracy is misleading. If he completed more passes to WRs rather than the amazingly high number 35% that travel 5 ft to a RB, his competion percentage would be lower and around 65% with Brady and people wouldnt be obsessed with his accuracy.


That's all.

TOTAL
- Brees: 417-583 (71.5%), 4780 yds, 37 td, 11 int, 109.1 rating
- Brady: 351-530 (66.2%), 4593 yds, 35 td, 11 int, 106.7 rating

Splits by Distance Thrown

*Pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage
- Brees: 87-106 (82.1%), 464 yds, 4 td, 1 int, 93.6 rating
- Brady: 43-57 (75.4%), 356 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 89.5 rating

*Pass thrown 1-10 yds
- Brees: 201-271 (74.2%), 1777 yds, 14 td, 4 int, 102.3 rating
- Brady: 199-271 (73.4%), 1986 yds, 14 td, 3 int, 106.4 rating

This was posted here before ProudestRyno. Not sure if your winging facts to make a point, hope not. Where did you get %'s if you don't mind me asking?

Our offense is kind of a different animal than you might be used to. Its a combination of the Spread,Spread option, Run and shoot, west coast, Pro set, and vertical offenses. Its based on the objective of 8 yards, with the other offensive philosophies mixed in to each others plays.

Brees and Brady are almost identical in % of passes behind the line of scrimmage, and 1-10 yards, based on totals.
That would mean that your also saying Brady is overrated, hope thats not the case.

Errr...I think its

1. Gronk
2. Graham - and hes 6ft 7
3. AH

 

[PatsFan2]

There isn't much of an issue between Graham and Hernandez, as both are predominately receiving TEs. But there is equally no question of who is better between Gronk and Graham. While an there is an arguement that can be made on both as receivers, Graham isn't even in the same Galaxy as Gronk as a Blocker. And I know this is hard for Saint fans to process, but blocking IS one aspect you have to incorporate when evaluating a TE

Now ken knowing the blind homer you are if the Patriots had Graham instead who would you say is better? What i'm saying is i think both of them will be Great TE's for years to come, so i guess it's a matter of taste.

 

[nabwong]

NFL.com news: Despite defensive deficiencies, don't sleep on the Patriots

And Aaron Hernandez's 68 catches would lead 29 other teams in receptions by a tight end.

Quite impressive for a 2nd TE/H-back

 

[PatsFan2]

NFL.com news: Despite defensive deficiencies, don't sleep on the Patriots



Quite impressive for a 2nd TE/H-back

All that after missing two Games because of injury...AH may be much better than regarded. I have a feeling he's going to be a Beast in the Playoffs.

 

[strngplyr]

I've posted this elsewhere, but consider this. Brees, Rodgers, and Brady, passes that travel 21+ yards downfield (what we would consider "long" passes):

Brees: 23-50 (46.0%), 11 td, 2 int
Rodgers: 28-54 (51.9%), 12 td, 1 int
Brady: 13-40 (32.5%), 6 td, 0 int

Whatever they do on short and intermediate routes, Brees and Rodgers certainly are much accurate on long passes than Brady is. By a really wide margin.

Is Brady throwing those deep passes to anyone that runs something like a 4.3 or 4.4 40 or taller than ~5'10"?

If you want to compare deep ball completion% (This is a very different thing than accuracy) you need to take into account the height and speed of his targets. I don't think it is any mystery that recently the Packers and Saints have had better deep threats by a land slide. Wes and Deion aren't exactly setting any land speed or freak of nature height records out there.

 

[ProudestRyno]

This was posted here before ProudestRyno. Not sure if your winging facts to make a point, hope not. Where did you get %'s if you don't mind me asking?

Our offense is kind of a different animal than you might be used to. Its a combination of the Spread,Spread option, Run and shoot, west coast, Pro set, and vertical offenses. Its based on the objective of 8 yards, with the other offensive philosophies mixed in to each others plays.

Brees and Brady are almost identical in % of passes behind the line of scrimmage, and 1-10 yards, based on totals.
That would mean that your also saying Brady is overrated, hope thats not the case.

Errr...I think its

1. Gronk
2. Graham - and hes 6ft 7
3. AH

That's simply not true.

To find the percentages, I went to team stats and calculated the amount of receptions by RBs. 35% of Brees completions have been to backs, and I've watched a lot of Saints games as well, so I know he dumps off more than most on screens or what have you.

Brady rarely throws to RBs anymore. And has not thrown enough (IMO) screen passes this year to even WRs...

I think it's an extremely effective offense. All I'm saying is if you go by completion percentage only without taking all the factors into account, Brees is the most accurate. I don't think he is. He's one of the most accurate, but not the most.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Graham > Hernandez..but he isn't too far away

 

[pherein]

That's simply not true.

To find the percentages, I went to team stats and calculated the amount of receptions by RBs. 35% of Brees completions have been to backs, and I've watched a lot of Saints games as well, so I know he dumps off more than most on screens or what have you.

Brady rarely throws to RBs anymore. And has not thrown enough (IMO) screen passes this year to even WRs...

I think it's an extremely effective offense. All I'm saying is if you go by completion percentage only without taking all the factors into account, Brees is the most accurate. I don't think he is. He's one of the most accurate, but not the most.

Our RB's like sproles/thomas are scat backs. We use them as WR when someone is silly enough to keep blitzing or designed trick screens, mostly they sit 6-8 yards in the flat.
What do you mean, the numbers given to you are true? Brady and Brees have almost identical #'s under 10 yards, add them up. Let me see the #'s you have?

Brady doesn't have any RB's to use as a scat back. I thought Brady uses his slot WR welker and TE's to relieve pressure. We do it different.

hmm.. its you opinion, this thread isn't about Brees anyway..not everyone is going to agree thats fine

 

[condon84]

ahhhhh.....no.......I'm bringing up probowl voting as any kind of deciding factor in overall talent....

AH is having a great year. he's near the top in terms of catches and yards when it comes to TE's

I just don't buy that catches is the only factor for a TE. if gronk went down, there are around a dozen or so guys I would rather put in that spot rather than hernandez......simple as that.

Please name these dozen TEs.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Our RB's like sproles/thomas are scat backs. We use them as WR when someone is silly enough to keep blitzing or designed trick screens, mostly they sit 6-8 yards in the flat.
What do you mean, the numbers given to you are true? Brady and Brees have almost identical #'s under 10 yards, add them up. Let me see the #'s you have?

Brady doesn't have any RB's to use as a scat back. I thought Brady uses his slot WR welker and TE's to relieve pressure. We do it different.

hmm.. its you opinion, this thread isn't about Brees anyway..not everyone is going to agree thats fine

I think all of you are missing my point. Maybe that's my fault for not explaining it better, who knows.

Who cares if Brady and Brees have the same amount of throws under 10 yds? What does that even tell us? If Brady makes 3 throws in a row that go 6-8 yds. and Brees dumps to a RB 3 times in a row, they both are throwing under 10 yds, but Brady is throwing the more difficult pass. Any QB can dump off to a RB. Even Matt Leinart excels at it.

I think Drew Brees is an amazing QB and I'm not knocking their offense by any means. It is an extremely effective offense. My beef is that Drew Brees gets showered with praise after each game for his record setting completion percentages, yet the media fails to mention that 10 of his 30 completions went as easy completions to the RB. That's all I'm saying. He deserves credit, but not as much as he gets.

If he were throwing the same passes Rodgers or Brady were throwing, his completion percentage would be more in line with Brady and Rodgers rather than around 70%...That's my point.

And yes, Brees is more accurate lately with downfield passes than Brady. But he also has the WRs to HAVE a downfield threat. So to me, that stat is skewed.

 

[tobias funke]

On the subject of dumpoffs/screens/draws...

Obviously I'm not the only one who noticed that the offense has run those plays much less over the last few years.

What do you guys think the reason for that is? Is it because of the lack of a true replacement for Faulk (a guy who could take a draw 9 yards on 3rd and 9 with regularity)? Is it due to the design of the offense? Or is it saving those plays for when we really need them instead of running them too often and clogging up the middle of the field for our short passing game?

It seems like most of the screens/draws/other misdirection plays have been replaced with WR/TE screens or a rare designed dumpoff, usually to a RB leaking to the outside.

 

[ausbacker]

All that after missing two Games because of injury...AH may be much better than regarded. I have a feeling he's going to be a Beast in the Playoffs.

His lateral movement is almost impossible to defend with linebackers. He sidesteps them like a Mayweather-Pacquiao contract.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

His lateral movement is almost impossible to defend with linebackers. He sidesteps them like a Mayweather-Pacquiao contract.

That's why I think Hernandez is one of a kind and doesn't really resemble other TEs just based on how quick he is. I think he'll be huge for us come playoffs.