A temporary fix for PI calls

[COLT FAN]

PI calls are not the only subjective calls. Holding calls are too ; some crews call more than any others. How about WR push offs?

If the PATS DBs didn't mug the Colts (& other teams) WRs in 03 & 04 PIs would not have become a point of emphasis. It existed in the rule books for long but when the DBs started mugging the WRs on long passes & the competetion committee made PIs the point of emphasis.

I am ok with the 15 yard penalty. The only situation where it hurts is in the 2 min offense. If a team has to score a TD in the last 15 sec from their own zone, & DB knowingly mugs the WR thus avoiding the big play and a chance to win the game. May be the following tweek is better for everyone

A. Before the 2 min warning of the either half, PI should be 15 yards penalty with automatic first down

B. Within the last 2 min of either half the penalty is the point of PI (or) 15 yards whichever is GREATER.

Similarly they have to come up with calling Holding penalties consistently.

 

[ausbacker]

PI calls are not the only subjective calls. Holding calls are too ; some crews call more than any others. How about WR push offs?

If the PATS DBs didn't mug the Colts (& other teams) WRs in 03 & 04 PIs would not have become a point of emphasis. It existed in the rule books for long but when the DBs started mugging the WRs on long passes & the competetion committee made PIs the point of emphasis.

I am ok with the 15 yard penalty. The only situation where it hurts is in the 2 min offense. If a team has to score a TD in the last 15 sec from their own zone, & DB knowingly mugs the WR thus avoiding the big play and a chance to win the game. May be the following tweek is better for everyone

A. Before the 2 min warning of the either half, PI should be 15 yards penalty with automatic first down

B. Within the last 2 min of either half the penalty is the point of PI (or) 15 yards whichever is GREATER.

Similarly they have to come up with calling Holding penalties consistently.

The rules guide from 2003/2004 aren't comparable to todays rules. The fact is, the Colts are on the receiving end of questionable pass interference calls that impact upon your team in a positive manner. I challenge you to disprove this.

I've made mention I have no problem with the penalty called if it is there. If a Patriots commits defensive PI and the call adheres to the guideline set out, then so be it. I've read the rules guide book and have come to the conclusion that suspicion should be investigated when it comes to the Goody Two Shoes Colts and defensive PI calls.

 

[SidelineSid]

I agree it should be like the college rule...

I fully agree with you. This is the most ridiculous penalty in all of football for the simple fact that there is no equivalent. The offense can do anything short of shooting the ref and at worst they might get an ejection and 15 yards. There is no balance because of this. It gives the offense an upper hand automatically because they can never be penalized as severely if they commit the same act.

Also, the offensive player has way too much leeway when these penalties are called. Look aback at the PI penalty that was called against Butler during the Colts game. Even though Butler was playing the ball and did not initiate contact with the offensive player, he was guilty of passing interference. Why? Because the offensive player jumped back into him in pursuit of the ball. If anything, the call should have gone against the offensive player. If it had, the Colts would have lost 15 yards. Instead, they were rewarded with 43! That's a 28 yard swing that the defense has no chance of taking advantage of.

The college game does many things right. This is one of them.

 

[fumbrunner]

Just talking about defensive pass interference, here is the tally:

@ARZ
3-1-IND 48 (1Q :21) K.Warner pass incomplete short right to L.Fitzgerald.
PENALTY on IND-F.Keiaho, Defensive Pass Interference, 6 yards, enforced at IND 48 - No Play.

SEA
3-4-IND 4 (4Q :26) S.Wallace pass incomplete short right to N.Burleson (T.Jennings).
PENALTY on IND-T.Jennings, Defensive Pass Interference, 3 yards, enforced at IND 4 - No Play.

@STL
3-16-IND 49 (4Q 3:52) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete deep middle to P.Garcon.
PENALTY on SL-O.Atogwe, Defensive Pass Interference, 43 yards, enforced at IND 49 - No Play.

HOU
3-3-50 (1Q 9:29) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete short left to R.Wayne.
PENALTY on HST-Du.Robinson, Defensive Pass Interference, 7 yards, enforced at 50 - No Play.
1-10-HST 35 (2Q 14:12) P.Manning pass incomplete short right to R.Wayne.
PENALTY on HST-D.Ryans, Defensive Pass Interference, 12 yards, enforced at HST 35 - No Play.

NE
1-10-IND 45 (2Q 5:21) P.Manning pass incomplete deep left to P.Garcon.
PENALTY on NE-L.Bodden, Defensive Pass Interference, 19 yards, enforced at IND 45 - No Play.
1-10-NE 44 (4Q 3:03) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete deep middle to A.Collie.
PENALTY on NE-D.Butler, Defensive Pass Interference, 31 yards, enforced at NE 44 - No Play.

@HOU
1-10-IND 38 (3Q 14:16) P.Manning pass incomplete short middle to P.Garcon.
PENALTY on HST-J.Reeves, Defensive Pass Interference, 43 yards, enforced at IND 38 - No Play.
3-8-HST 8 (3Q 12:54) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass incomplete short left to A.Collie.
PENALTY on HST-G.Quin, Defensive Pass Interference, 7 yards, enforced at HST 8 - No Play.
1-10-HST 35 (4Q 9:33) P.Manning pass incomplete deep left to R.Wayne.
PENALTY on HST-Du.Robinson, Defensive Pass Interference, 17 yards, enforced at HST 35 - No Play.

Colts = 2 penalties for 9 yards
Opponents = 8 penalties for 179 yards

Still looking for the disparity?

And of course the calls against the Pats and Houston came in the 3rd and 4th quarters, during critical times in the games. Pointing to the number of calls only is ridiculous.

 

[COLT FAN]

The rules guide from 2003/2004 aren't comparable to todays rules. The fact is, the Colts are on the receiving end of questionable pass interference calls that impact upon your team in a positive manner. I challenge you to disprove this.

I've made mention I have no problem with the penalty called if it is there. If a Patriots commits defensive PI and the call adheres to the guideline set out, then so be it. I've read the rules guide book and have come to the conclusion that suspicion should be investigated when it comes to the Goody Two Shoes Colts and defensive PI calls.

So as per you the bogus PIs only get called for the Colts & no other team ?
Every good passing team gets by with a bogus PI. Also not all PIs called for the Colts are bogus. I agreed the 50 yard PI called yesterday was ticky-tacky or bogus. In fact our Indystar (Bob Kravitz) article called that bogus call. But to say all PIs that get called with Colt WRs are bogus is sheer nonsense. Also Pats & Saints & even Cardinals have had bogus PIs called for them. As a Pats fan many pushoffs by Moss weren't called as offensive PIs. That is what is called "JORDAN RULE" Great players (& teams) do get certain calls in their favor more than the Lions or Bucs or Browns.

 

[ausbacker]

So as per you the bogus PIs only get called for the Colts & no other team ?
Every good passing team gets by with a bogus PI. Also not all PIs called for the Colts are bogus. I agreed the 50 yard PI called yesterday was ticky-tacky or bogus. In fact our Indystar (Bob Kravitz) article called that bogus call. But to say all PIs that get called with Colt WRs are bogus is sheer nonsense. Also Pats & Saints & even Cardinals have had bogus PIs called for them. As a Pats fan many pushoffs by Moss weren't called as offensive PIs. That is what is called "JORDAN RULE" Great players (& teams) do get certain calls in their favor more than the Lions or Bucs or Browns.

Nobody is saying that defensive pass interference calls are subjective to the zebra calling them, the crux of the argument is that the Colts get more favourable suspect pass interference calls at important times in games than any other team does.

The Butler call was bogus & the Reeves call was beyond ridiculous. In 3 weeks, that's 2 suspicious calls that had major impacts upon the outcome of both games that were unwarranted and did not adhere to the NFL Rules Book regarding what constitutes defensive pass interference.

It's easy to say "I agree the call was bogus" when the win is stashed away in the column. Go ask a Texans fan what they think of it and their wildcard chances.

 

[fumbrunner]

Lol, the colts getting PI calls is so common, that it happens on madden too!

YouTube - Amazing Madden comeback!

 

[COLT FAN]

Nobody is saying that defensive pass interference calls are subjective to the zebra calling them, the crux of the argument is that the Colts get more favourable suspect pass interference calls at important times in games than any other team does.

The Butler call was bogus & the Reeves call was beyond ridiculous. In 3 weeks, that's 2 suspicious calls that had major impacts upon the outcome of both games that were unwarranted and did not adhere to the NFL Rules Book regarding what constitutes defensive pass interference.

It's easy to say "I agree the call was bogus" when the win is stashed away in the column. Go ask a Texans fan what they think of it and their wildcard chances.

That PI call yesterday didn't decide the game. That was on 1st & 10. Even after that Texans were leading. What lost the game for the Texans was two picks & one fumble by their QB in the 4th Q.

Fans remember the calls that go for their main rivals more than their own teams!. That is natural

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, that's going to happen. The league will never pass an automatic review and make some games go 6 hours long. They need to make PI reviewable which will probably never happen since it is a judgment call (which in itself is crime that the most costly penalty in football is based on the judgement of the ref and not a penalty where judgement is taken out of the equation).

First of all, making all pass interference a BOOTH REVIEW will not make some games go 6 hours... That is just pure BS on your part.. The booth reviews all the plays inside of 2 minutes and it doesn't drag that out..

Secondly, the booth doesn't need to buzz down on every pass interference call to tell the Ref to review it..

Third, the refs need to be re-instructed on how the rule is stated because too many of them are botching it. Here is what the rules say:

It is pass interference by either team when any player movement beyond the line of scrimmage significantly hinders the progress of an eligible player of such player’s opportunity to catch the ball.

Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.

(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.

Here is the list of actions that do NOT constitute defensive pass interference:

(a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball, or neither player is looking for the ball. If there is any question whether contact is incidental, the ruling shall be no interference.

(b) Inadvertent tangling of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball.

(c) Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players.

(d) Laying a hand on a receiver that does not restrict the receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(e) Contact by a defender who has gained position on a receiver in an attempt to catch the ball.

In the Pats game, Butler should not have been called because of "E".

In the Houston game, #35 (Reeves) shouldn't have been called because, if there was contact, it was incidental at best.

In the Houston game, #23 shouldn't have been called because Collie pushed off, hence initiating the contact..

Again, the PI rules are in place, the Refs just aren't calling them properly.

 

[DaBruinz]

You're in luck. Facguarding hasn't been a penalty since 2005.

Actually, Faceguarding went off the books long prior to that.

 

[ausbacker]

That PI call yesterday didn't decide the game. That was on 1st & 10. Even after that Texans were leading. What lost the game for the Texans was two picks & one fumble by their QB in the 4th Q.

Fans remember the calls that go for their main rivals more than their own teams!. That is natural

A net results of 43 positive yards resulting in a touchdown drive closing the gap to Colts 14 Texans 20 might not have won the game, but it certainly influenced the outcome of the game.

 

[DaBruinz]

PI calls are not the only subjective calls. Holding calls are too ; some crews call more than any others. How about WR push offs?

If the PATS DBs didn't mug the Colts (& other teams) WRs in 03 & 04 PIs would not have become a point of emphasis. It existed in the rule books for long but when the DBs started mugging the WRs on long passes & the competetion committee made PIs the point of emphasis.

I love idiots who don't know wtf they are talking about. After the 2004 season, when they had their meeting, they had examples of the PI that weren't being called. Do you know how many of those examples were of Patriots DBs? NONE. That's right. NONE. 90% of them were of Madison and Surtain in Miami. NOT the Pats DBs. You're a mediot following sheep who can't think for himself.

I am ok with the 15 yard penalty. The only situation where it hurts is in the 2 min offense. If a team has to score a TD in the last 15 sec from their own zone, & DB knowingly mugs the WR thus avoiding the big play and a chance to win the game. May be the following tweek is better for everyone

A. Before the 2 min warning of the either half, PI should be 15 yards penalty with automatic first down

B. Within the last 2 min of either half the penalty is the point of PI (or) 15 yards whichever is GREATER.

Similarly they have to come up with calling Holding penalties consistently.

If they called holding penalties consistently, the Colts would never get outside their 10 yard line...

 

[COLT FAN]

The same day they called the Brady rule (vs Ravens), two other QBs (Jamarcus Russel & Matt schab) were mugged and those weren't called. This happens all the time.

You only list the wrong PI calls that benifitted Colts. As a Colts fan I have seen some clear PIs weren't called even when Colts WRs were clearly interfered. You will not remember those as an opposition fan. It goes both ways.

How many calls went in favor of Pats during the 3 SB years? Just think.

Simply

Officials give more calls to teams that they think are Great than the medicore teams. That is all. But to say Colts won those games because of those PIs is nonsense. Good teams overcome those adversities.

 

[ausbacker]

Officials give more calls to teams that they think are Great than the medicore teams. That is all. But to say Colts won those games because of those PIs is nonsense. Good teams overcome those adversities.

Colt Fan you are missing the point. Nobody is saying the Colts won games because of the bogus defensive interference calls, more than they have put their opposition at an unfair disadvantage because the Colts get more suspect calls that do not adhere to the written rules of defensive pass interference than anyone else on face value.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The same day they called the Brady rule (vs Ravens), two other QBs (Jamarcus Russel & Matt schab) were mugged and those weren't called. This happens all the time.

You only list the wrong PI calls that benifitted Colts. As a Colts fan I have seen some clear PIs weren't called even when Colts WRs were clearly interfered. You will not remember those as an opposition fan. It goes both ways.

How many calls went in favor of Pats during the 3 SB years? Just think.

Simply

Officials give more calls to teams that they think are Great than the medicore teams. That is all. But to say Colts won those games because of those PIs is nonsense. Good teams overcome those adversities.

The call in that Ravens game wasn't a 'Brady Rule' call. The rule that that was called on was in the rulebook since 2006, due to the Carson Palmer hit. The Brady Rule says that a defender can't lunge from the ground to hit the QB. Common mistake, though- the media doesn't seem to know the difference, so it's not surprising when most posters don't either.

 

[DaBruinz]

So as per you the bogus PIs only get called for the Colts & no other team ?
Every good passing team gets by with a bogus PI. Also not all PIs called for the Colts are bogus. I agreed the 50 yard PI called yesterday was ticky-tacky or bogus. In fact our Indystar (Bob Kravitz) article called that bogus call. But to say all PIs that get called with Colt WRs are bogus is sheer nonsense. Also Pats & Saints & even Cardinals have had bogus PIs called for them. As a Pats fan many pushoffs by Moss weren't called as offensive PIs. That is what is called "JORDAN RULE" Great players (& teams) do get certain calls in their favor more than the Lions or Bucs or Browns.

MANY MANY fans are starting to point out about the disparity of PI calls when the Colts are involved. The two PI calls they got yesterday were bogus. Yes, the one on #23 in the end zone should have been OFFENSIVE PI because Collie pushed off initially.

It's been going on since at least 2005 where the Colts have been getting the lion share of PI calls in their favor. Both in terms of when they occur and the yards they incur.

As was pointed out in a thread earlier today:

2006 AFCCG - Hobbs gets called for a Phantom PI called FACEGUARDING, yet Kelvin Hayden is able to plow through Reche Caldwell in the endzone and not get called for it.

2009 - Pats game - Darius Butler gets called for DPI after he has position on Austin Collie and Collie initiates contact as Butler goes for the interception.

2009 Texans game- The two that were mentioned.

So, please don't start with your BS excuses.

 

[DaBruinz]

A net results of 43 positive yards resulting in a touchdown drive closing the gap to Colts 14 Texans 20 might not have won the game, but it certainly influenced the outcome of the game.

It changed the whole outcome of the game. Everyone on the Texans sidelines was clearly down after the two bogus calls.

I was eating lunch with my family yesterday when the Texans were winning at half-time. I said something to the effect of "Don't worry, the refs will give Peyton the game". I got major looks of skepticism from them, but said nothing else. What happened? Exactly as I predicted. The refs stepped in and clearly made calls that shouldn't have been made and it changed the course of the game.

Instead of 2nd and 10 from the Indy 38, it was 1st and 10 from the Houston 19. As ausbacker said, it sure as hell influenced the outcome.