A few questions about the defense

[SHOWTIME15]

After watching the game, I wanted to ask you guys a few questions.

1. Anyone else a little worried about the secondary? McNabb was able to complete a lot of throws last night that should not have happened. Maybe I am worried for nothing.

2. What are the advantages of playing a 4-3? And is it set that we are playing the 4-3 this year instead of the 3-4 base?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe BB likes to use this time for one on one type matchups so I don't know if any scheme related stuff is appliciable.

I was glad to see the only 2 FG's. It seemed like redzone efficiency was a point of emphasis on "situational football.

 

[BradyManny]

After watching the game, I wanted to ask you guys a few questions.

1. Anyone else a little worried about the secondary? McNabb was able to complete a lot of throws last night that should not have happened. Maybe I am worried for nothing.

I thought the secondary played great - the pass rush looked good - the one potential weakness seemed to be the LBs in pass coverage, especially Mayo, Guyton, etc. We knew that'd be a work in progress. But Mayo was keeping it in front of him and limiting the damage, so that's good. I was very pleased w the D overall.

 

[unoriginal]

What are the advantages of playing a 4-3? And is it set that we are playing the 4-3 this year instead of the 3-4 base?

4-3 is more of a pass-rushing formation than is the 3-4. You saw some of its vulnerability last night when the Eagles picked up chunks of yards with the screen game. Moving one of the linebackers down to the line means there's one less person who can chase those down in the flats.

 

[JD10367]

Detroit went 4-0 in the preseason last year, then 0-16. 'Nuf said. The gameplans for preseason are beyond vanilla, the coaches are mixing and matching players, half the regs don't dress and the other half play sparingly, by the third quarter guys are on the field who'll never see it for real... I'll worry about the D when Buffalo scores 42 in the first game.

I have one concern about preseason: that no one get injured.

 

[miDeuce]

I kinda wonder if they ran the 4-3 to get a better look at the plethora (yes, plethora) of defensive lineman. And just to give everyone something to think about. I still feel like they open in the 3-4 vs. Buffalo.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

After watching the game, I wanted to ask you guys a few questions.

1. Anyone else a little worried about the secondary? McNabb was able to complete a lot of throws last night that should not have happened. Maybe I am worried for nothing.

2. What are the advantages of playing a 4-3? And is it set that we are playing the 4-3 this year instead of the 3-4 base?

1. No.

2. We will see a bit of everything you can imagine from our defense as the year rolls along.

Give the 4-3 time. It will get progressively better...eventually dominant for the Playoffs and SB. We're trying to find the best matches right now for the season

 

[DocE]

The DT's (at least one of them) are better pass rushers than your typical 3-4 Nose. One of the DT's will usually be man on man with a guard.

The LB's take on fewer blocks because of the 4th man on the line. In most 4-3 D's the WLB is a tackle machine who often runs free. This is the main reason I don't like the 4-3 for the Pats as I think Mayo can play 4-3 MLB and Thomas can play SLB, but there is not a great weakside option.

The 3-4 allows for more versatility as you can never be sure where the 4th rusher will come from. The ends in the 3-4 are larger and often have to 2 gap which DE's in a 4-3 rarely do.

As for the other question, I am a little concerned about the pass coverage, but not necessarily about the DB's. We seem a little slow to me and the only DB who's speed may be below average for their position is Sanders. I think we need to tackle better in general and cover the shorter routes better across the board in the back 7.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

The DT's (at least one of them) are better pass rushers than your typical 3-4 Nose. One of the DT's will usually be man on man with a guard.

The LB's take on fewer blocks because of the 4th man on the line. In most 4-3 D's the WLB is a tackle machine who often runs free. This is the main reason I don't like the 4-3 for the Pats as I think Mayo can play 4-3 MLB and Thomas can play SLB, but there is not a great weakside option.

The 3-4 allows for more versatility as you can never be sure where the 4th rusher will come from. The ends in the 3-4 are larger and often have to 2 gap which DE's in a 4-3 rarely do.

As for the other question, I am a little concerned about the pass coverage, but not necessarily about the DB's. We seem a little slow to me and the only DB who's speed may be below average for their position is Sanders. I think we need to tackle better in general and cover the shorter routes better across the board in the back 7.

Tru dat.

I'm shocked the PatsFans.com Forum has minimal thread posting on the defensive changes and how they'll affect some of the vets (LB's and Line)

 

[unoriginal]

Tru dat.

I'm shocked the PatsFans.com Forum has minimal thread posting on the defensive changes and how they'll affect some of the vets (LB's and Line)

We don't know yet if its a real base they'll use much in the regular season, or if it's just a change-up they're practicing, or if it's as someone suggested it was required in camp due to new bodies / vet injuries.

Chris Gasper has a pretty good blog entry on the topic:

A 4-3 under alignment looks very similar to a 3-4, with five men on the line of scrimmage. The most noticeable difference is that a weakside (away from the tight end) edge player such as Banta-Cain is down in a three-point stance as a defensive end, lined up off the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle, as opposed to standing up at outside linebacker. The strongside linebacker also is on the line, off the outside shoulder of the tight end.

Patriots are cooking up schemes - The Boston Globe

I.e. TBC or Burgess are playing the Simeon Rice / Regan Upshaw 9 tech in a Tampa Bay style defensive front, just to clear up confusion.

If the Pats are running this a lot it's because they like the pass rushing abilities of their backside 3 and 9 techs: in Preseason week 1, this was mostly Myron Pryor and TBC, two small guys in the base 3-4 but guys who have quick steps and can penetrate.

 

[maverick4]

After watching the game, I wanted to ask you guys a few questions.

1. Anyone else a little worried about the secondary? McNabb was able to complete a lot of throws last night that should not have happened. Maybe I am worried for nothing.

2. What are the advantages of playing a 4-3? And is it set that we are playing the 4-3 this year instead of the 3-4 base?

It appears we have the personnel now to play some more 4-3 compared to recent years.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

After watching the game, I wanted to ask you guys a few questions.

1. Anyone else a little worried about the secondary? McNabb was able to complete a lot of throws last night that should not have happened. Maybe I am worried for nothing.
...

i have to be careful what i say because we didn't get the game down here. But, McNabb is a premier QB and the Pats weren't game planning against him, but just calling plays on D based on a combination of the situation and putting guys in different situations to observe them. So, I'm not sure that we should be all that worried, at least at this point.

 

[RayClay]

We don't know yet if its a real base they'll use much in the regular season, or if it's just a change-up they're practicing, or if it's as someone suggested it was required in camp due to new bodies / vet injuries.

Chris Gasper has a pretty good blog entry on the topic:


Patriots are cooking up schemes - The Boston Globe

I.e. TBC or Burgess are playing the Simeon Rice / Regan Upshaw 9 tech in a Tampa Bay style defensive front, just to clear up confusion.

If the Pats are running this a lot it's because they like the pass rushing abilities of their backside 3 and 9 techs: in Preseason week 1, this was mostly Myron Pryor and TBC, two small guys in the base 3-4 but guys who have quick steps and can penetrate.

Surprising to me that Pryor was available, maybe a height, weight tweener? I can see they are really amassing more DL talent (Pryor is athletic as hell, it seems).

I'm wondering, with 5 men on the line, where is the intermediate pass coverage? Are they counting on Mayo's athleticism and the safeties?

 

[unoriginal]

Surprising to me that Pryor was available, maybe a height, weight tweener? I can see they are really amassing more DL talent (Pryor is athletic as hell, it seems).

I'm wondering, with 5 men on the line, where is the intermediate pass coverage? Are they counting on Mayo's athleticism and the safeties?

Pryor, like Brace, was a slider because he was perceived as having benefited from playing next to superior linemen. Additionally he was on a line and team that wasn't all that good. Also he is short, 6' 0". Weight-wise he is fine.

If it's man, typically the Sam (Adalius Thomas) has the tight end he's lined up over, the Mike (Mayo) has the first back strongside, the Free (Meriweather) has the first back weakside, and the Will (Guyton) and Stud (Sanders) are the freelancers, assuming no blitz. If they want a 2 Deep look the Will takes the Free's responsibility.

For zone it's obviously not too difficult to get to a Cover 2 or Cover 3 weak roll look, with the Sam in the strong flat.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

Pryor, like Brace, was a slider because he was perceived as having benefited from playing next to superior linemen. Additionally he was on a line and team that wasn't all that good. Also he is short, 6' 0". Weight-wise he is fine.

If it's man, typically the Sam (Adalius Thomas) has the tight end he's lined up over, the Mike (Mayo) has the first back strongside, the Free (Meriweather) has the first back weakside, and the Will (Guyton) and Stud (Sanders) are the freelancers, assuming no blitz. If they want a 2 Deep look the Will takes the Free's responsibility.

For zone it's obviously not too difficult to get to a Cover 2 or Cover 3 weak roll look, with the Sam in the strong flat.

Thanks for the posts Unoriginal.
It's good to get some knowledge (esp. Defense) on this bosrd.

Hopefully our defense develops into something multi-dimensional that will always keep the offense guessing.

the link posted in the prev posts is good.

I like this...

"Proof of Belichick’s coaching acumen, he isn’t trying to force his players to fit his preferred scheme, but rather tailoring his scheme to fit the players."

 

[DaBruinz]

After watching the game, I wanted to ask you guys a few questions.

1. Anyone else a little worried about the secondary? McNabb was able to complete a lot of throws last night that should not have happened. Maybe I am worried for nothing.

2. What are the advantages of playing a 4-3? And is it set that we are playing the 4-3 this year instead of the 3-4 base?

1. Not worried about the secondary, yet.

2) If one were to believe Randy Cross, then yes, the 4-3 is what the Pats are going to Run for a base this year. Cross supposedly got it directly from the horses mouth (BB) that Pees has been given the go ahead to run the 4-3 almost exclusively.