Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by cstjohn17, Jan 14, 2011.
Dareus is a much better fit for a 4-3 than for the Pats' 3-4
Anything is possible, but I'm not looking at Dareus as pure 3-4 or 4-3, he's just a good DL and they tend to get drafted quickly.
I'm kind of liking Jarvis Jenkins right now as a guy who we could get who fills the bill. Perfect size at 6'4", 315 (according to NFL Draft Countdown anyway) who seems to have the skillset to be just what we need. Additionally he is a Senior who played for 4 years in college which is always a plus for Belichick. I'm not sure where he's projected but he never shows up on 1st round mocks, I think we could get him with Carolina's #2 if he continues to fly under the radar a bit.
Right now the two picks I am looking at are :
1b - Stefen Wisniewski
2a - Jarvis Jenkins
I don't have names for the other picks yet.
Cameron Jordan is my guy for the 17th overall pick.
If we miss with him I'd like to see the team wait until the middle rounds to add a DE.
Bobby Esch (huddle) would certainly have both available when you want them. He has Jenkins as 70th on his value board, the #10 DT. It does seem likely that a reasonable DL and OG will be available at 1b or 2a.
That's generally about where he's being listed, I'm not sure if we could get Jenkins at 2b or Wilkerson at 2a but I'd be very happy with either one. Although Jenkins is an inch shorter than preferred his size is close enough to what we want.
I do think we need a highly taken DE unless Ty Warren is expected to make a full recovery and if they really like Brace. All we have after those two, unless G. Warren re-signs, is Deaderick and the guys like Wright (maybe) and Pryor who aren't true starting DE. I wrote that as we do have a lot of quantity at the position but we need a legit young potential starter.
13 of Scout Inc Top 32 are DL, this is a fine year to find the next Wil-War-Sey-Fork.
Why are you not high on Ballard?
Hate Wes Bunting (National Football Post) but his day 2 notes on senior bowl regarding C Jordan are very positive “downright dominant at times as a pass rusher”
Yeah, which I'm glad to hear. That means he just jumped from late-1st to early-1st, meaning one more player, hopefully one who fits the scheme better, will fall. In the Pats' scheme, pass-rush ability only matters for players who have the bulk, length, and technique to hold up to the run, and I think Jordan is lacking there.
Hmm.. I'm becoming more and more convinced that DE is the way to go at 17 - but only if it's someone who can improve our pass rush. With that in mind, the list seems pretty short -
Fairley and Dareus are probably out of reach (though IMO Dareus is overrated).
Cameron Jordan is the 1 guy who I'm sold on at the moment.
Clayborn may be worthwhile depending on how he measures out and tests at the combine.
Wilkerson, Watt, and Liuget are possibilities, but I'm not sure about either one yet.
That's about it for my DE list. Everyone else doesn't appear to be an upgrade over Brace, Ty Warren, Pryor, Love, or Deaderick (assuming he learns from his suspension.)
After watching a lot of highlight tape on the players available to us at this position.....Muhammad Wilkerson impressed me the most.
He looked very quick for a man that big, and appeared to have the best nose for the ball out of all of them so far. JJ Watts was second IMO. He doesn't seem to anchor as well, but seems more disruptive in the backfield and a little quicker passrusher.
Either of these guys would make me happy...Wilkerson would probably be there at our 2nd pick in the first round...possibly even at #33 which would allow them to grab Ryan Kerrigan or Aldon Smith at #17
Your thoughts on Wilkerson mirror mine. I am completely befuddled on where a pass rusher will come from as most of the OLBs have various holes in their games. If they get a CBA done prior to the draft then I'd rely strictly on getting a Free Agent for that spot. One LB that I want in a Patriots uniform, regardless of need, is ILB Kelvin Sheppard from LSU. I've watched this guy perform at a high level and with all of the intangibles that a coach could want. He's about 5-10lbs. lighter than we'd like but he can find that under his playbook.
I really like JJ Watt. He has a none stop motor and is a good pass rusher. He's a little light to contribute as an end in the base defence in his first year but you can't teach his athleticism. Get him to put on a bit of weight and learn the system and he could be great. In the mean time he can be a 3rd down rusher and play in sub packages the first year ala Myron Pryor and Mike Wright.
People have mentioned we won't deal with his agent. Is it really that much of an obstacle?
Maybe a better question than who is a pass rusher is "who can rush the passer"? Who shows the best aptitiude for getting pressure if BB dials up blitzes?
Likewise, on the ends, do you see any guys that could be a Jarvis Green type? He was drafted in the 5th round. If we don't get Wright and Pryor back.....
How about looking at a grouping that looks to work best together and with our existing core players?
I may be wrong on some of this but :
I see Love as a NT. And Pryor and Wright as passing down DT. G. Warren is unsigned so I'll ignore him.
That leaves Brace, Deaderick and Ty Warren. Warren is coming off of season ending hip surgery, I have no idea what the prognosis is, but for a 30 year old DL I can't say I'm supremely confident. I sure hope we can add to this group.
Discounting those who will be gone but don't fit, I am interested in :
Christian Ballard at 1b.
Cameron Heyward at 2a.
Jarvis Jenkins at 3a.
Also Wilkerson although he's more of a question mark coming from a small school.
The name that leaps out at me watching clips of Wilkerson is Ty Warren. It's very, very easy to picture him in a Patriots uniform.
Watts impresses me too, but he's harder to project. I don't think this team has ever lined up anybody similar to him...in fact, I'm having trouble coming up with comparisons for him in general. A lanky 6'6" 292 college DE whose game seems to be more agility and agression than classic speed or power...anybody come to mind?
Exactly. Right now, NFLDraftScout projects Wilkerson to Warren's exact height (6045), and two pounds lighter (305), and it looks like he'd be able to handle two-gapping. He looks to have the power to handle double-teams, and he has shown good lateral agility on a few plays that I've seen.
Watt strikes me as a good fit because he's probably a year away from starting in the base 3-4, due to concerns about technique and bulk (at 6'6'', he should be 315+, ideally), but that's okay because the Pats have TWarren and Brace as starting options, and GWarren as a backup DE. Where he could fit in right away is as an interior subpackage guy, replacing Wright, who sadly is looking pretty questionable for next year.
I think there are quite a few DEs that can get to the passer but wouldn't necessarily fit our base DE or aren't athletic to the point where moving to OLB seems likely. One off the top of my head is from FSU...Markus White is his name I think although I looked at him and wondered if he could shift to OLB. If our search...and ultimately BBs search...was not so pigeon-holed then there'd be more than a few undersized DTs that could situationally rush the passer in the Jarvis Greene mold.
Separate names with a comma.