2nd Round- Best Value

[big mike]

This is not a theory - it's an observation. I haven't made that observation before.

So, tell us. Who should the Patriots take at #21 or should they look to trade up or down? Providing they can find a willing trading partner.

It depends entirely on how the first 20 picks pan out. Two years ago, many people were saying we should trade down with 21. Then Wilfork slipped to us, and we struck gold.

If guys like Manny Lawson, Bobby Carpenter, all of the RBs that could be good value there, etc. are all gone by 21 - then yes, we should trade down. But, there are a few people who would be worth picking at 21 (or trading down a few picks, depending on who's on the board). If Manny Lawson is there, many would say there's no question - we should take him. He's head and shoulders above all of the LBs who will be in the 2nd round.

If he's gone, but guys like Greenway and Carpenter are still on the board - it might be worth trading down a few picks, aiming to still get Carpenter (since Greenway will likely be more appealing to most teams), but get a pick to use to move up further in the 2nd round to try to get Addai or one of the other RBs who may be there in the early 2nd.

At this point it's all speculation, since we don't know how the first 20 picks will go. Without knowing who will still be there at 21, we can't say it does or doesn't make more sense to trade down.

 

[big mike]

I didn't mean to be rude about it. It was just my observation that every year somebody posts a similar observation that the value of the draft is somewhere in the 35-60 range and that we should try to acquire as many 2nd rounders as possible. I think it happens because every year there are 6-12 top prospects that we can't afford to trade up for and there's a group of players within a couple of positions who are closely grouped, at least by the so-called experts.

I think another factor is many people for some reason thinking that we can get guys we like in the 2nd or 3rd round who will likely never make it out of the first.

As for my opinion, I'm not saying you're wrong. The only guys I'm high on who I think could slide to 21 are Santonio Holmes and LenDale White. If they're not there, I'm all for trading down.

What about Lawson?

 

[big mike]

IF Huff drops to #15, who would trade up for this guy??????? What would you be willing to sacrifice to get him???????

Huff = spectacular athlete. Can play a nasty headhunting SS and cover like a CB! If Harison comes all the way back, we can slide Huff over to nickel and our run support suffers nothing and our coverage speed improves. Best DB in the draft, hands down.

And what about the SS's we drafted on day 1 in the last two drafts? If we trade up to 15 to take Huff, can we get those draft picks back?

Gus Scott and James Sanders are decent - give them a chance before saying we should use yet another day 1 pick on an SS. Hawkins is decent as well. Do we need 5 SSs now? It was a fluke last year that our top three SSs all got injured, and so close together.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

While the whole question was a what if, however let me say this BB likes competition. Drafting Huff would cause some competition.

Gus Scott is miscast as a SS, he should be a FS, but regardless of what position he plays, I'm not convinced he's anything special. I would not be surprised if he doesn't break camp with the team this fall.
Sanders right now is an ideal beckup SS and ST demon. Maybe he could devlop into something more, hard to tell at this point.
However what is known is that with Huff, there is no guessing or waiting, he's special now. The only question I have on him, is he smart enough to be a field general in the Pats complex secondary???

I still believe that our #1 need entering FA was a playmaker in the secondary. This guy is the best the draft has to offer.

 

[big mike]

While the whole question was a what if, however let me say this BB likes competition. Drafting Huff would cause some competition.

Gus Scott is miscast as a SS, he should be a FS, but regardless of what position he plays, I'm not convinced he's anything special.

1. The Patriots don't really play a FS/SS defense. As has been discussed before, they really just play more of a "left safety" and "right safety".
2. He's hardly had a chance to display what he can do. He didn't play much at all his rookie season since Rodney was healthy, and last year he was injured right after Rodney. But, when he HAS been in there, he's looked good.

Sanders right now is an ideal beckup SS and ST demon. Maybe he could devlop into something more, hard to tell at this point.
However what is known is that with Huff, there is no guessing or waiting, he's special now. The only question I have on him, is he smart enough to be a field general in the Pats complex secondary???

I'd say the question is - given Sanders and Scott have the potential to be decent safeties, and Rodney is still on the team, and Hawkins played decent last year at safety - why use a first round pick on another one, when there are other positions of much greater need?

I still believe that our #1 need entering FA was a playmaker in the secondary.

I just don't see how you can believe that, considering we don't have a full set of starting LBs, no real #2 WR, etc..

 

[mcbee]

What about drafting Jason Allen in the 1st. Or maybe Pat Watkins or Bullocks in the 2nd/3rd.

I could see them drafting OL Marcus McNeill in the 1st and Chris GoCong in the 3rd (OLB/MLB).

On the other hand they have a top SEC OT in Wesley Britt on practice squad. Wonder what happened to him.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

1. The Patriots don't really play a FS/SS defense. As has been discussed before, they really just play more of a "left safety" and "right safety".
2. He's hardly had a chance to display what he can do. He didn't play much at all his rookie season since Rodney was healthy, and last year he was injured right after Rodney. But, when he HAS been in there, he's looked good.


I'd say the question is - given Sanders and Scott have the potential to be decent safeties, and Rodney is still on the team, and Hawkins played decent last year at safety - why use a first round pick on another one, when there are other positions of much greater need?


I just don't see how you can believe that, considering we don't have a full set of starting LBs, no real #2 WR, etc..

In Ochmed's defense, BB trains his secondary to play both safeties, but then tries to give them assignments based on their individual skill set and body type. Geno gets the FS assignment more often because he is faster than Rodney and is a converted CB. Rodney gets the SS assignment most often because that has been his position during his career and he has the size to survive better close to the line - when Pittsburgh WRs aren't throwing illegal looking blocks from behind.

Hawkins style of play made him a better SS candidate than Geno even though he gave up 15 pounds to Eugene. I agree with Ochmed, Gus Scott would be better in the FS assignment; I think Sanders will be better in a SS assignment. Ventrone is a SS in Europe and looks good up in the box.

Huff has measurables that suggest he can play CB, but the size to play SS in the box. The question to answer when he gets into a training camp, does he have the eye-foot coordination and football instincts to play the ball in the air from the CB position? I think we're all in agreement that he would be good at either safety.

If he was BB's choice, the question would then be one of opportunity to reach him.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What about drafting Jason Allen in the 1st. Or maybe Pat Watkins or Bullocks in the 2nd/3rd.

I could see them drafting OL Marcus McNeill in the 1st and Chris GoCong in the 3rd (OLB/MLB).

On the other hand they have a top SEC OT in Wesley Britt on practice squad. Wonder what happened to him.

On paper Jason Allen looks like he has the measurables to play anywhere in the secondary - the question would be how well the knee is doing and how much rust exists once he gets back to a football field?

I agree with Mike, S isn't our thinnest position, and I agree with Ochmed that having another payer who can be a ball-hawking, cover corner would be a worthwhile investment even with LB being thin. Watkins or Bullocks don't reportedly translate into the CB assignment as well as Huff or Allen might.

Britt was on the Practice Squad through the end of the season and was re-signed to the team before the start of the new NFL year. Rosie Colvin had good things to say about him as a practice partner in Rosie's pass rush drills, hopefully the extra year to heal and develop his blocking under Dante and against guys like Rosie and Vrabel have prepared him to push Light and Kaczur in camp.

McNeil was criticized by Mike Mayock (NFL Network draft analyst) for being a "heavy legged, waste bender." I noted in the Senior Bowl that speed rushers ate him alive, he just didn't have the foot speed to beat them to the corner. He is a good run blocker, and might make the translation inside to RG, but despite his impressive straight line speed, he reportedly didn't have the lateral speed and quickness Dante and BB look for in an O-lineman. I picture him as a heavier Gorin and I want an pass protection upgrade at RT with the increase in teams who have speed rushers on either edge.

I am really impressed with Gocong's play and measurables; my ideal LB draft would be Lawson in the first round with Gocong at 3a - I would settle for Tapp in the first (preferably after a trade down to gain more horsepower in the second) and Gocong, but he reminds me so much of Bruschi - only he has an extra 15 lbs to absorb abuse. Lawson and Gocong had the best ball awareness I observed in the All-Star games.