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2022 PTP Draft Board / Pats Draft Talk


Just for reference, Araiza averaged about 8 yards more than Jake Bailey, who was drafted in the fifth round. It is a good sized reason why the San Diego State defense was so good in points allowed. That extra first down yardage every time he punted was huge, considering how poor their offense was.
 
Just for reference, Araiza averaged about 8 yards more than Jake Bailey, who was drafted in the fifth round. It is a good sized reason why the San Diego State defense was so good in points allowed. That extra first down yardage every time he punted was huge, considering how poor their offense was.
I don't grade punters but I have no problem taking him or another ST stud in the 4th. None at all. If I think you're a competent backup QB I have no problem taking you in the 3rd. If you can help prepare the offense, help prepare the starter, come in and win 2 out of 3/4 I'll take you in the 3rd with a smile. Those guys help you win games and win playoff games or get to the playoffs. The draft is 4 rounds long. Give me all the guys who can make a roster even if their ceiling is fixed.
 
I could care less about him being 24. That’s draft chatter nonsense, and you know players often slim down during the draft process to improve their athletic numbers. Mathis was listed at 320 in two draft publications I purchased. He can play at 320, 315 or 310 and be an effective 3 down player who actually fits the Patriots defense of 2022.

“Everyone” might not be looking at Davis and Jones to be another Wilfork or Traylor. Belichick signed Godcheaux last off season. He’s still on the roster and scheduled to make $7.5 million, Do you think Belichick didn’t know what he was getting and has in Godcheaux? Maybe, Bill wants Godcheaux types rather than Traylor types? Have you considered that?

The Pats were pretty good against the run in short yardage and goal line last season which was a big improvement from 2020. Their problem is not defending the run out of their base defense or a heavy alignment. Their problem is they can’t adequately play the run in their nickel alignments which they must play a majority of the time even on early downs to defend against the pass.
Where does a NT fit in their 2-4-5 nickel?

Belichick and the defensive coaches have this covered. It’s why they changed to a primarily zone coverage team on 1st and 2nd down last season and will continue to do so this season. Playing zone allows them to bring an 8th defender closer to the LOS giving them the numbers advantage to defend the run without exposing them to a greater risk of long pass plays because one of the corners or both will fall back to a deep zone depending on whether they’re running a cover 2 or 3. It was a great idea by Belichick and it made last season interesting and resulted in a playoff berth.

Barmore, Judon, Godcheaux and, say, Trey Flowers will generate enough pass rush to make it effective. It worked last season until Barmore and Judon (probably) were injured and teams started to unmercifully exploit Hightower’s and Van Noy’s lack of speed resulting in some big plays. Now, you replace them with faster guys like McMillan, Mac Wilson and Josh Uche. Ronnie Perkins or Anfernee Jennings provides some quality depth behind Judon, and Ekuale, Cowart or a draftee can backup Barmore. The Patriots defense will be better in 2022 and a legit top 5 defense if…….

The missing piece is a corner good enough to man up against an opponent’s 2nd option allowing a double team on the 1st option when they want to or have to play man coverage.

That’s how I prefer the Patriots use their 1st rounder rather than draft an upgrade to the role Carl Davis played last season. That role can be filled later in the draft, or they could resign Davis or Danny Shelton or Eddie Goldman.

If they draft Davis or Jones high, they better be able to line up over a guard, threaten the pocket, and play 60% of the snaps. Or, you’ve wasted a lot of draft value.

It is both baffling and amusing the level of this boards DT hype this offseason and esp Draft.
 
I wonder how many trade ups he's made.
An article before the 2019 draft said 24, and I count 3, 4, and 1 in the three drafts since then. So I think 32.
 


Maybe Billy should've "wasted" a little time building consensus on some of those trades... Especially the trade-UP for SloJuan Willies and the utter catastrophe of 2020.
 
Just for reference, Araiza averaged about 8 yards more than Jake Bailey, who was drafted in the fifth round. It is a good sized reason why the San Diego State defense was so good in points allowed. That extra first down yardage every time he punted was huge, considering how poor their offense was.
His hang time isn't there, though. He could be great, but he's got a lot of work to do when you read past the hype trains.

There's talk of someone grabbing him in the 3rd (Rams). Shrug.
 
More from McGinn

On Saturday, an executive with a team owning a top-10 selection said, “This isn’t going to be a normal draft. Everybody’s panicking.”

The bottom-feeding teams atop the draft are uneasy because most personnel people read the draft in much the same way. In effect, there is no elite, can’t-miss player to pick first.

In the last month, I’ve polled 17 personnel men asking them for their choice as the best player in the draft. Given the blue-chip void, one would think the increasingly valuable wide receiver position might swoop in and lead off the draft for the first time since Keyshawn Johnson went to the Jets in 1996.

Five players from three different positions garnered votes as the draft’s supreme player. Tellingly, wide receiver was a position that got shut out.

“There’s an abundance of guys but I don’t see a Ja’Marr Chase, somebody like that,” another AFC scout said. “There’s no Calvin Johnson’s, no Julio Jones’, nobody like that.”

“You’d certainly like bigger than (Chris) Olave, Jameson Williams, Garrett Wilson, (Jahan) Dotson,” another AFC exec said. “They’re smaller guys. You get a bigger guy with (Drake) London, but you give up the speed. You hope the separation quickness is good enough, which I think it is. (Treylon) Burks is not a real polished receiver but he can do a lot of different things with the ball. If you’re going to be a smaller guy these guys at least have the speed and the separation quickness you need at a really high level.”

The aforementioned six players finished as the leading vote-getters in a poll of 16 personnel people. Each was asked to rank the receivers on a 1-2-3-4-5 basis. A first-place vote was worth 5 points, a second counted 4 and so on.

Scouts were every bit as uncertain about the order of wide receivers as they were concerning the top of the draft.

Wilson, of Ohio State, led with a point total of 57 that included four first-place votes. Williams, of Alabama by way of Ohio State, was next with 56 (five firsts). Right behind were Olave, another Buckeye, with 47 (three firsts) and Southern California’s London with 46 (three firsts).

“You could start talking about any of them (from) like 15 down,” said an AFC scout. “There really aren’t a lot of legitimate No. 1 wideouts (in the league). Not a lot of Davante Adams. But Williams, Olave and Wilson are legitimate win-with starters. I don’t see Olave or Wilson in a league with Davante Adams or a Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones or Ja’Marr Chase.”

Rounding out the vote were Burks, of Arkansas, with 18 points (one first), Penn State’s Dotson with eight, Western Michigan’s Skyy Moore with four and two players, Alabama’s John Metchie and Baylor’s Tyquan Thornton, each with two.

“There’s no transcendent player,” another AFC scout said. “None of these guys tested crazy.”

Burks, who at 224 is 11 pounds heavier than London, is considered a risky pick. When scouts were asked which of the top wideouts had the best chance to bust, the vote was 7 ½ for Burks, three for London and Williams, two for Olave and one-half for Dotson.

Wilson (5-11 ½, 184), Williams (6-1 ½, 180), Olave (6-0 ½, 185), Dotson (5-10 ½, 181), Moore (5-9 ½, 191) and Metchie (5-11, 189) are on the slight if not frail side. In addition, both Williams and Metchie underwent reconstructive knee surgery late in the season.
Probably the two best wide receivers in 2021 were Cooper Kupp (6-1 ½, 203, 4.60) and Adams (6-1, 214, 4.55). Two of the hottest younger players are Justin Jefferson (6-1, 202, 4.47) and Chase (6-0 ½, 201, 4.34).

“I don’t think people realize how big the good NFL receivers are,” an AFC scout said. “We have a data base right in front of us. There just aren’t a ton of successful receivers that are under 185 pounds. You have to be a really good player to play at that size.”

An NFC exec countered by using the examples of Stefon Diggs (6-0, 193, 4.43) and Odell Beckham (5-11, 196, 4.40).

“Everybody says you need a big, gigantic guy in the league,” he said. “There’s plenty of good players that are not huge guys.”

The AFC man wasn’t convinced.

“Speed guys have a place if they get to the right team and right system,” he continued. “They can be effective. But it’s a physical game. Look at the corners people are drafting. The corners are bigger and faster. When those guys get their hands on them the speed doesn’t show the same way it does in college.”

Among the top 25 in career receiving yards are five players with dimensions not far from the majority this year. The group includes Hall of Famers Isaac Bruce (5-11 ½, 173, 4.53), Marvin Harrison (6-0, 180, 4.29) and Andre Reed (6-1 ½, 185, 4.55), and Reggie Wayne (5-11 ½, 194, 4.55) and Jimmy Smith (6-0 ½, 200, 4.51).

From the Johnson-Jones branch are Hall of Famers Michael Irvin (6-1 ½, 200, 4.55), Randy Moss (6-3 ½, 200, 4.42), Terrell Owens (6-3, 211, 4.55) and Jerry Rice (6-2, 195, 4.58).

Of this class of wideouts, an AFC exec said, “They’re very slight and they’re fast. What we’re looking for are three guys that can play all three spots and pinball around.”

At least the failure rate at the position has slowed. Of the 11 wideouts selected in Round 1 the past two years, just one can be relegated to the bust heap. In the 10 drafts before that (2010-’19), by conservative judgment 35% (12 of 34) of the first-rounders deserve the dreaded ‘B’ for their chests.
 
I could care less about him being 24. That’s draft chatter nonsense, and you know players often slim down during the draft process to improve their athletic numbers. Mathis was listed at 320 in two draft publications I purchased. He can play at 320, 315 or 310 and be an effective 3 down player who actually fits the Patriots defense of 2022.

“Everyone” might not be looking at Davis and Jones to be another Wilfork or Traylor. Belichick signed Godcheaux last off season. He’s still on the roster and scheduled to make $7.5 million, Do you think Belichick didn’t know what he was getting and has in Godcheaux? Maybe, Bill wants Godcheaux types rather than Traylor types? Have you considered that?

The Pats were pretty good against the run in short yardage and goal line last season which was a big improvement from 2020. Their problem is not defending the run out of their base defense or a heavy alignment. Their problem is they can’t adequately play the run in their nickel alignments which they must play a majority of the time even on early downs to defend against the pass.
Where does a NT fit in their 2-4-5 nickel?

Belichick and the defensive coaches have this covered. It’s why they changed to a primarily zone coverage team on 1st and 2nd down last season and will continue to do so this season. Playing zone allows them to bring an 8th defender closer to the LOS giving them the numbers advantage to defend the run without exposing them to a greater risk of long pass plays because one of the corners or both will fall back to a deep zone depending on whether they’re running a cover 2 or 3. It was a great idea by Belichick and it made last season interesting and resulted in a playoff berth.

Barmore, Judon, Godcheaux and, say, Trey Flowers will generate enough pass rush to make it effective. It worked last season until Barmore and Judon (probably) were injured and teams started to unmercifully exploit Hightower’s and Van Noy’s lack of speed resulting in some big plays. Now, you replace them with faster guys like McMillan, Mac Wilson and Josh Uche. Ronnie Perkins or Anfernee Jennings provides some quality depth behind Judon, and Ekuale, Cowart or a draftee can backup Barmore. The Patriots defense will be better in 2022 and a legit top 5 defense if…….

The missing piece is a corner good enough to man up against an opponent’s 2nd option allowing a double team on the 1st option when they want to or have to play man coverage.

That’s how I prefer the Patriots use their 1st rounder rather than draft an upgrade to the role Carl Davis played last season. That role can be filled later in the draft, or they could resign Davis or Danny Shelton or Eddie Goldman.

If they draft Davis or Jones high, they better be able to line up over a guard, threaten the pocket, and play 60% of the snaps. Or, you’ve wasted a lot of draft value.

The NT fits in where they always have. Lining up over the Center. Try educating yourself on a 4-3 OVER instead of ranting and throwing out a lot of meaningless mumbo jumbo that shows you haven't been paying attention to what the Pats have been doing for the last 4 years in terms of their defense. In the Pats 4-3 OVER, they use 2 DTs. The NT and the UT. The NT lines up over the Center. The UT lines up across from one of the guards. Whether the UT lines up on the inside, outside or directly over the Guard an on which side of the line varies based on the alignment they see

Barmore and Godchaux play the same position. The UT. Neither is suited as the NT. This was shown time an again last year as the Pats run defense was gashed over and over again. Cowart and Guy also play that position.

What you prefer doesn't mean jack squat considering you don't understand the Pats defense.

Mathis fits as the UT. The same position as Barmore. He doesn't fit as the NT. Again, it's a matter of actually understanding what the Patriots have been doing on defense.

While you have your mouth firmly on the idea of taking a corner regardless of who is available, the rest of us are paying attention and actually trying to learn. Something you've shown that you have no interest in.
 
All my mocks put 150 to him if he’s there. A 5th, maybe even a 4th, that saves millions is worth the pick.
Yes. lets waste a draft pick when we already have an All-Pro punter.
 
Maybe Billy should've "wasted" a little time building consensus on some of those trades... Especially the trade-UP for SloJuan Willies and the utter catastrophe of 2020.
How about the trade up last year to grab Barmore? I think that one turned out pretty good, don't you?
 
It is both baffling and amusing the level of this boards DT hype this offseason and esp Draft.
It's not a matter of "hype". It's a matter of recognizing that games are won in the trenches. That the Patriots RUN DEFENSE has been horrid for 3 straight years. And that there are players who would fit in next to Barmore to strengthen that run defense, allowing for the likes of Judon, Uche, the other edge players and LBs to make plays in the passing game.
 
Yes. lets waste a draft pick when we already have an All-Pro punter.
For 4 million?

I’d certainly prefer a renegotiation/extension with Bailey. But I don’t consider ANY contributing player a “waste” after round 3.

Bailey, the guy you’re now talking up, was taken at 163. I have Ariaza (if they can’t work things out with Bailey) at 150, so please, enough with the “ugh”s and the silly snark, okay?
 
Maybe Billy should've "wasted" a little time building consensus on some of those trades... Especially the trade-UP for SloJuan Willies and the utter catastrophe of 2020.
Williams hasn't been an "utter catastrophe". FFS. Give it a rest already. N
 

Can't wait to see how high he goes in the Draft. I have to assume BB is high on him I wouldn't be surprised if he was picked in the 4th round.
 
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