2022 PTP Draft Board / Pats Draft Talk

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yea I'm all for trading down to 28-32 or 33-38.

I'd guess my CB grades shakes out Stingley, Booth, McDuffie, Elam, Sauce so if we get one of Booth / McDuffie I'll be ecstatic.

Figure Jones will be IDL4 or 5.

I know this isn't very realistic but I'm all for going DL back to back.

Imagine adding Jordan Davis and one of Leal/Wyatt/Mathis with Barmore.

Yes J Davis with Wyatt/Leal/Mathis would be glorious because I hate our run defense. It might be better long term to go CB, it is a passing league, but I am so frustrated with our DL, I would love DL twice.

 

[Patsgofor4]

WR

X - Feature
Garrett Wilson - gets a ton separation in general esp off the top of his routes. Plus body control & sudden stop/start ability. Can easily get in/out of his breaks. Can adjust with the best of 'em. YAC threat on screens/off motion - effective out slot. Plus at running slants, crossing & go routes. Plenty of film beating press, man / off. Plus release / footwork & good hand usage. Hit or miss blocker with lots of room to get better. Very nuanced r/r. He looks like a solid WR1 A/B high-end WR2 that will make some QB very happy.

https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1493955951312912385?t=OXck1aoeXnsTy2CYCW4Nfg&s=19

Jahan Dotson - Slippery, quick & sudden. Plus r/r with vision of a RB. Efficient clean steps getting in/out of breaks. Needs to get stronger & become a better hand fighter in-route. Like Wilson he's crafty & can really work tempo into his routes. Uses w/e he can find for an advantage & uses it. Point guard footwork, quickness that stresses an opponents leverage & reactions. Good enough blocker. 22 yo rookie. Weapon in space that could be a low-end 1B or legit WR2

https://twitter.com/eric_crocker/status/1457104885443350531?t=2MWRbCXLhPBK244pzPCJVA&s=19

Jameson Williams - left OSU behind multiple WR's. Wasn't interested in blocking or learning their system. It's amazing what a year in Bama will do for you. Electric game changing speed with an extra gear at the top. Short area quickness that can move laterally & make you miss. Not sure he's made to be on a physical, run first team like ours but his speed is exactly what we need outside. His speed is just different, has top tier acceleration too. He was a game changer last year.


Other names to know ...
Chris Olave runs professional routes & looks the part in so many ways there. Everything looks the same. Body & head discipline are always tight & in sync. There's a bunch of different variations & outliers everywhere but if you want to be a good-great WR you have to be great at running certain routes (slant, in & out, hitch, crossing/over. You could throw "go" routes in there if you want. Olave isn't explosive or intimidating but just gets it done & is probably the best r/r in his class.


John Metchie - for obvious reasons. Plus tracking, release & yac ability. Tape is good, kind of hit or miss against physical corners. Elam & other tough corners, secondaries gave him fits at times. You can use him a little inside & outside. Worked great out of trips & bunches. Torn ACL. Tough player that should put on some muscle coming off his injury to help handle himself better.


Romeo Doubs - isn't the most versatile but could be the deep threat we need. Eats up a cushion. Can run by you. Tough physical runner that does serious work down field. Will occasionally make a "wow" play. Release & tracking ability have improved each year. Takes advantage of cushions & DB's dropping too far in zone respecting his speed. Nothing really wasted coming in/out of his breaks.

More names ...
Alec Pierce, Michael Woods


Weapon X with slot skills
Treylon Burks - I called him "AK Browncalf" last summer bc he reminds me of AJ Brown & DK. Also gives you "good" Josh Gordon vibes. A bigger Deebo? Burks is country strong with Hakeem Nicks size hands (xxxxxl). No nonsense attitude & elite H/W/S at 6'3/230 while running a 4.4. Burks can work anywhere, actually did a done of damage behind the los but also did plenty outside the #'s. Ask Bama fans if you don't believe me. They have athletes everywhere & couldn't catch him. Has to get better against press to make it full time outside but he can beat it. Plus blocker but could improve. He'll shake off arm & weak tackles. You need a plan for him but he's a weapon & a half.




Other names to know ...
David Bell - is a potential power slot / x. Tough with good understanding of what it takes to win snap to snap. Solid overall release with good variety leading into hia stem. Can adjust or work through contact. He works to get open its not bc of natural gifts. Very good r/r you can use in a variety of ways - motion, bunches, inside/outside, scheme touches or just within offense. Very tough prospect that gives & takes contact. Very good working MOF. Made some circus rec all over. Plus body control.


Slot - Z Gadget
Kyle Phillips is already a fan favorite here I believe. Trusted target with reliable hands. Plucks the ball away from his body. Shifty, elusive & looks like Renfrow's little brother stop & starting. If it's near him he'll catch it. Does most of his work in the shallow MOF. Might be a nice quick option r/r there. YAC. Smart player that knows his role. Can return punts.


Calvin Austin III - small but one of the fastest people walking around. Burner speed. Twitchy with real burst. Water bug in the open field with real suddenness & acceleration. Knows how to win at the top of his route. Little big of a project but went from walk on to potential mid round NFL pick. Has what it takes to contribute right away as a gadget player & work up from there.


Wan'dale Robinson - simply put the pats have had trouble beating man coverage for like 3 years now. We need an easy button that win against man. Get some yac & move the chains. Occasionally take a deep shot from the slot. All of these guys can do that. Robinson has really good hands that don't make tough, tight rec's & isn't afraid of contact. Small & isn't a burner but he's very elusive & always makes the first guy miss. Tough for his size.




Christian Watson - he's another favorite of mine. I got to know his brother, Tre, a little bit, a few years ago before his process so I'm pulling for him. Let me say with respect to Tre, Christian, is a much better prospect lol even though they played different positions. Christian has outstanding play speed & elusiveness for 6'4. Powerful track strides with real acceleration that intimidate defenders. Route tree is limited but that's not a huge deal as long as the prospect has shown the ability even in a small sample. Teams are installing their offense not NDSU etc. Really good on screens, post, curl/comeback. Lots of potential with deep overs. Track & field background with other events. Well respected by players, opposing players & coaches. Hard worker with some real gifts. I think he would be a great fit as a "Z" here.

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1494783416323166210?t=weAeXo1hz92doUT-WOuP_w&s=19

Other names to know ...
Khalil Shakir, Skyy Moore, Britain Covey

Thanks for this!

I was surprised that you didn’t list Olave on your spreadsheet, because you do seem to like him as a player, based upon your write-up. Is that because he is almost certainly going to be drafted in the first round but you wouldn’t want the Patriots to use 21 on him?

Also, can we assume that you are not high on Drake London, at least for the Patriots system?

 

[patfanken]

There shouldn't even BE a conversation on drafting a receiver in ANY of the first 3 rounds. The NCAA puts out 15-20 good WR prospects every single year while there are 5-8 IDL good prospects, When it's a numbers game you should always go with the "unicorn", and NOT the buffalo herd.

I think a discussion on a CB or IDLman is legitimate. But if we get to a situation where Davis or Wyatt is there at 21 and there are a couple of really good CB prospect too, I'd have to go with the IDLman. I want to trade down (I think there is a LOT of value potentially in the 2nd round of this draft) but I'd be hard pressed not to pull the trigger on Davis or Wyatt if they dropped to 21

In my ideal draft Davis is gone before 21 (not getting past the Chargers) we move down somewhere in the 30's and pick up another 2 and 3. And with the 2 seconds we wind up with Travis Jones and one of the top 6-8 CB's. Then add a speed LB and a WR or OLman in the 3rd and we are off to a great start in this draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

There shouldn't even BE a conversation on drafting a receiver in ANY of the first 3 rounds. The NCAA puts out 15-20 good WR prospects every single year while there are 5-8 IDL good prospects, When it's a numbers game you should always go with the "unicorn", and NOT the buffalo herd.

I think a discussion on a CB or IDLman is legitimate. But if we get to a situation where Davis or Wyatt is there at 21 and there are a couple of really good CB prospect too, I'd have to go with the IDLman. I want to trade down (I think there is a LOT of value potentially in the 2nd round of this draft) but I'd be hard pressed not to pull the trigger on Davis or Wyatt if they dropped to 21

In my ideal draft Davis is gone before 21 (not getting past the Chargers) we move down somewhere in the 30's and pick up another 2 and 3. And with the 2 seconds we wind up with Travis Jones and one of the top 6-8 CB's. Then add a speed LB and a WR or OLman in the 3rd and we are off to a great start in this draft.

I would, most certainly look at a WR like Phillips in the 3rd round. Otherwise, I agree with you. Pats need a LOT of help on Defense.

They need:
IDL
LB - guys who can play sideline-to-sideline as well as drop into coverage
CB - Guy who can play Outside but also in the slot.

 

[ashley]

I would, most certainly look at a WR like Phillips in the 3rd round. Otherwise, I agree with you. Pats need a LOT of help on Defense.

They need:
IDL
LB - guys who can play sideline-to-sideline as well as drop into coverage
CB - Guy who can play Outside but also in the slot.

I think depending on the JC's situation and if we resign him will depend on our first pick. If Jc is not back with us, I feel pretty confident that we will target a CB, someone like Booth...if JC does come back, we can still take a cb or go with a possible interior line man(Jordan Davis) or speedy lb (Lloyd)

 

[patfanken]

I would, most certainly look at a WR like Phillips in the 3rd round. Otherwise, I agree with you. Pats need a LOT of help on Defense.

They need:
IDL
LB - guys who can play sideline-to-sideline as well as drop into coverage
CB - Guy who can play Outside but also in the slot.

Well I wouldn't have a fit if they grabbed a WR in the 3rd especially if they pick up an extra one in a trade down. If a guy like Lloyd is there I'd be OK with picking him up since he looks like he might be an instant impact player. However don't sleep on McGrone as the kind of side line to sideline ILB. And of course I believe Uche could POSSIBLY be another prospect, but we've already discussed this before

another guy we didn't hear from last year who COULD have a big role on the DL next year is Bryan Cowart. Another of my binkies that haven't worked out. Had a very quick first step and enough power to move OLmen back. I'm not sure what was the problem last season, but if he comes back fully healthy he DOES have athletic potential to be a big part of the DL.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well I wouldn't have a fit if they grabbed a WR in the 3rd especially if they pick up an extra one in a trade down. If a guy like Lloyd is there I'd be OK with picking him up since he looks like he might be an instant impact player. However don't sleep on McGrone as the kind of side line to sideline ILB. And of course I believe Uche could POSSIBLY be another prospect, but we've already discussed this before

another guy we didn't hear from last year who COULD have a big role on the DL next year is Bryan Cowart. Another of my binkies that haven't worked out. Had a very quick first step and enough power to move OLmen back. I'm not sure what was the problem last season, but if he comes back fully healthy he DOES have athletic potential to be a big part of the DL.

The problem with Cowart is that he's not a NT. He's a better fit as the UT. The Patriots need someone who can consistently be the NT and draw doubles. If the NT draws doubles, then the likelihood of Barmore being doubled is lower. If bother are doubled, then there is no way that doesn't free up an Edge guy to make a play on passing downs.

 

[Scotty]

I remember Cowart getting some decent comments when he was on the field. Hopefully he will resume that during camp etc and can stay healthy

 

[borisman]

Anyone else catch this article by Conor Roche? Marvin Harrison had the TD record…..@ OSU?….BGC could’ve written a better article and brief prospect reviews.

19 prospects Patriots fans can keep an eye on during the NFL Draft Scouting Combine

The Patriots have will likely have to address needs at wide receiver, linebacker, and cornerback this offseason. Read more on Boston.com.

www.boston.com

This link is on the PatsFans website. At least they know whom to follow at the combine.

 

[SteveKiner]

Or just live with certain weaknesses with guys like that. I think you can do both or again just accept certain flaws bc everyone has them.

Dean vs Lloyd is a very interesting one. I need some testing #'s to complete my grades but can't not see them LB 1 & 2.

Lloyd is more versatile. Can play multiple spots, I think he could do a lot for us in that regard, on & off the los. Obviously his pass rushing skills. He's physical and has closing speed.
Dean is more explosive out the gate, more acceleration. Lighter on his feet very quick and nimble. Better range & lateral flow. Physical and handles contact a a little better in some regards in run support when fitting a run. His size limits him whereas Lloyds length allows him to keep his outside shoulder clean on the los. Lloyd is tighter in terms of change of direction / short area quicks.

Both need to improve run recognition. Very interesting debate. I just think there's enough guys that fit the classic mold for better or worse. Guys like Chenal, Muma, Luketa, Sanborn, Beavers or maybe compromise with Clark, Walker or Tindall?

Yea I'm all for trading down to 28-32 or 33-38.

I love all three. Again I need some testing #'s but I'd guess my CB grades shakes out Stingley, Booth, McDuffie, Elam, Sauce so if we get one of Booth / McDuffie I'll be ecstatic.

Figure Jones will be IDL4 or 5.

I know this isn't very realistic but I'm all for going DL back to back.

Imagine adding Jordan Davis and one of Leal/Wyatt/Mathis with Barmore.

I would love DL back to back. Davis / Wyatt is a w*t dream

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I would love DL back to back. Davis / Wyatt is a w*t dream

Why the love for Wyatt?

His film from 2019 and 2020 is “jag” worthy at best.

Unless he gets a step on an offensive lineman, he is toast because of his total of power.

 

[SteveKiner]

Or just live with certain weaknesses with guys like that. I think you can do both or again just accept certain flaws bc everyone has them.

Dean vs Lloyd is a very interesting one. I need some testing #'s to complete my grades but can't not see them LB 1 & 2.

Lloyd is more versatile. Can play multiple spots, I think he could do a lot for us in that regard, on & off the los. Obviously his pass rushing skills. He's physical and has closing speed.
Dean is more explosive out the gate, more acceleration. Lighter on his feet very quick and nimble. Better range & lateral flow. Physical and handles contact a a little better in some regards in run support when fitting a run. His size limits him whereas Lloyds length allows him to keep his outside shoulder clean on the los. Lloyd is tighter in terms of change of direction / short area quicks.

Both need to improve run recognition. Very interesting debate. I just think there's enough guys that fit the classic mold for better or worse. Guys like Chenal, Muma, Luketa, Sanborn, Beavers or maybe compromise with Clark, Walker or Tindall?

Yea I'm all for trading down to 28-32 or 33-38.

I love all three. Again I need some testing #'s but I'd guess my CB grades shakes out Stingley, Booth, McDuffie, Elam, Sauce so if we get one of Booth / McDuffie I'll be ecstatic.

Figure Jones will be IDL4 or 5.

I know this isn't very realistic but I'm all for going DL back to back.

Imagine adding Jordan Davis and one of Leal/Wyatt/Mathis with Barmore

Why the love for Wyatt?

His film from 2019 and 2020 is “jag” worthy at best.

Unless he gets a step on an offensive lineman, he is toast because of his total of power.

Sorry for the delay in responding. Busy day at work today.
I watched some of the Senior Bowl week stuff and thought Wyatt had a great week. My favorite SEC team is UGA and I spent a little time watching him. I thought he was okay in 2020(even being a covid year)and honestly don't remember him from 2019. I thought he had a great year this year. Very quick. Teamed nicely with Davis as kind of a Thunder/Lightning duo. I thought Wyatt actually looked better than Davis in some of the games down the stretch. He does not have the strength of Davis(who does?) but I thought he he was able to anchor well on the inside and played everywhere from 0-7 technique. I was very impressed with his initial quickness getting into the blocker/ shooting the gap. I think he needs work on his hands, but so do most college DL's. One of the people I discuss college football with and critique games actually thinks Wyatt will be a better pro than Davis. I know kind of apples and oranges, but I could see Wyatt developing into a very good 3 down interior pass rusher. very quick twitch. needs to develop some more pass rush moves. He is a large person 315 or so but moves like someone much smaller. Great motor. I hate to use this comparison especially since the comp was a bust, but he reminds me of a Dominique Easley with 50 more pounds. I attribute Easley's bust status due to his injuries. Wyatt has the same quick shoot the gap style without the bad knees and 50 more pounds to help anchor. I think you meant to say "he is toast because of his total LACK of power, but I rarely saw him getting pushed around and thought he dominated everyone he went against versus Alabama. I think Bryce Young is still seeing Wyatt in his nightmares and the Alabama OL was good. I also thought Wyatt really showed what he could do against the top talent the week of the Senior Bowl. According to what I saw and some of the scouts like Jeremiah said, Wyatt was unblockable at times. I didn't see him getting pushed around much at all. Bottom Line, I would love to see the Pats double dip with UGA DL's but the chance of that happening are probably less than me winning powerball. Yes, I was very excited when the Pats drafted Easley bad knee and all so take that as a sign of my scouting capabilities.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Busy day at work today.
I watched some of the Senior Bowl week stuff and thought Wyatt had a great week. My favorite SEC team is UGA and I spent a little time watching him. I thought he was okay in 2020(even being a covid year)and honestly don't remember him from 2019. I thought he had a great year this year. Very quick. Teamed nicely with Davis as kind of a Thunder/Lightning duo. I thought Wyatt actually looked better than Davis in some of the games down the stretch. He does not have the strength of Davis(who does?) but I thought he he was able to anchor well on the inside and played everywhere from 0-7 technique. I was very impressed with his initial quickness getting into the blocker/ shooting the gap. I think he needs work on his hands, but so do most college DL's. One of the people I discuss college football with and critique games actually thinks Wyatt will be a better pro than Davis. I know kind of apples and oranges, but I could see Wyatt developing into a very good 3 down interior pass rusher. very quick twitch. needs to develop some more pass rush moves. He is a large person 315 or so but moves like someone much smaller. Great motor. I hate to use this comparison especially since the comp was a bust, but he reminds me of a Dominique Easley with 50 more pounds. I attribute Easley's bust status due to his injuries. Wyatt has the same quick shoot the gap style without the bad knees and 50 more pounds to help anchor. I think you meant to say "he is toast because of his total LACK of power, but I rarely saw him getting pushed around and thought he dominated everyone he went against versus Alabama. I think Bryce Young is still seeing Wyatt in his nightmares and the Alabama OL was good. I also thought Wyatt really showed what he could do against the top talent the week of the Senior Bowl. According to what I saw and some of the scouts like Jeremiah said, Wyatt was unblockable at times. I didn't see him getting pushed around much at all. Bottom Line, I would love to see the Pats double dip with UGA DL's but the chance of that happening are probably less than me winning powerball. Yes, I was very excited when the Pats drafted Easley bad knee and all so take that as a sign of my scouting capabilities.

I would love it if bb drafted Davis.

The second defensive linemen from Georgia I really want bb to draft is Carter in the 2023 draft.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

There shouldn't even BE a conversation on drafting a receiver in ANY of the first 3 rounds. The NCAA puts out 15-20 good WR prospects every single year while there are 5-8 IDL good prospects, When it's a numbers game you should always go with the "unicorn", and NOT the buffalo herd.

What's up Ken, hope all is well old man! Killing them at the tables? Any hot tips for March Madness?

Not sure we disagree but there's a limited number of prospects actually worth a first round pick. At the end of the day you want proper value for your picks and round one is the hardest round to get equal value imo. Again considering there's only 8-15 guys worth a first or that earn that type of grade. So I'm down with trading back but if we're at 21 and there's a WR worth it I might be incline for reasons I'll get to later. Anyway
I understand "planet theory" and subscribe if worth it. That said I'm not taking a 2nd RD talent > 1st RD talent especially if the value and need meet. In this case, Burks or Williams - skill sets we don't currently have on the team.

I could get behind Davis bc he's a potential game changer on 1st & 2nd down. Could potentially allow for some creativity and a nice cushion on 3rd but again I have to go with who's graded the highest on the board coupled with "need" and at some point we're going to need to add to this group. It's good to really good but adding a top flight WR is different today than 10-25 years ago. Where only a select number of guys could really take over a game. Today there's athletes everywhere you look. Most are more advanced in terms of r/r and reading coverage. Able to take advantage of soft defenses and rules that favor the offense. There's more advantage now in having top tier WR's on your squad.

We need guys that can win downfield, create on their own and dictate coverage. All three can do that and more. And more importantly help maximize Mac on a cheap contract. That's the most important thing right now.

Also if you follow your thoughts or argument above to its conclusion you'll almost never hit on those types taking WR's from the 4th-7th round. If you really want production you have to invest in the first few rounds. Most of best and really good are gone, as we've seen. You'll have you're outliers but if you want a good-great WR you really have invest top 100 capital.

I think a discussion on a CB or IDLman is legitimate. But if we get to a situation where Davis or Wyatt is there at 21 and there are a couple of really good CB prospect too, I'd have to go with the IDLman. I want to trade down (I think there is a LOT of value potentially in the 2nd round of this draft) but I'd be hard pressed not to pull the trigger on Davis or Wyatt if they dropped to 21

Davis is so intriguing bc he's potentially a one man gang on the los. And there's a reason Bill stuck by Wilfork until just about the very end. Having one guy like that. That can control, reset, collapse and consistently 2 gap, take on doubles is valuable but more so when you're running a 34 okie like Bill has been.

In my ideal draft Davis is gone before 21 (not getting past the Chargers) we move down somewhere in the 30's and pick up another 2 and 3. And with the 2 seconds we wind up with Travis Jones and one of the top 6-8 CB's. Then add a speed LB and a WR or OLman in the 3rd and we are off to a great start in this draft.

I'm a big Jones fan though. Local kid so I'm sure we'll have a solid grasp on him.

I really wouldn't double dipping on the DL unless we bring back Flowers or Jones. Probably more likely Flowers. Than it'll make sense to take a shot later in rounds 3-5 where we usually take those types. Again those I wouldn't mind taking Jermaine Johnson at 21 and possibly trading up for Davis if he falls past us or maybe Jones in the 2nd. Best CB/WR/LB available after that.

Check out Jermaine Johnson and Travon Walker. Those two could be pretty good. Walker has quick, almost sped up movements - twitchy. Can rush the arc from the 3/4i/5/6/ tech. Flexible and strong as ****. He'll be walking around at 285-290 very soon. Lot to learn as a pass rusher but he's a big time building block up front. Super strong heavy hands that good improve on technique - counters, general hand fighting.

Johnson is a classic PTP end. 6'4/265 34+ arms and really knows how to use his length and gain leverage! His ability to play from his hips up is impressive. He really knows how to generate power and force from his lower half. Really good run defender that could improve his hands and work on keeping off his chest quicker. More refined than Walker in a lot of ways. Not as much upside but a little more NFL ready imo but again I think both could be great.

For CB check out Booth, Elam, McDuffie, McCreary and Gordon. I think all are big time PTP and our types.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Why the love for Wyatt?

His film from 2019 and 2020 is “jag” worthy at best.

Unless he gets a step on an offensive lineman, he is toast because of his total of power.

You could say the same about a lot of prospects. Jordan Davis had a 3rd-4th round grade this time last year from the NFL draft board. Hence him coming back.
Stingley is being drafted top 10-15 off his freshman tape. Has had mental lapses in several games like Bama and almost
looked checked out against lesser comp like Utah. Love his upside but his tape is inconsistent as hell.

We see this with a lot of prospects. That's why you watch at least 2-4 games from each or 5-7 all together to really get a feel. See the good and the bad.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I would love DL back to back. Davis / Wyatt is a w*t dream

Not sure we spend highly on 3 DL'm (Barmore) in two drafts but I'm all for it!

I think if we want a classic Pats/Bill look we hope Davis falls past us, trade back and get him or get him at 21. Than target Mathis in the 2nd or even 3rd depending in things shape out. Mathis could be our Warren. Davis our Wilfork and hopefully Barmore is our Sey. Keep Guy and God and we have one hell of a rotation. Again a lot of investments early on for DL but we could dream.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Johnson/Walker
Jones
Tindall
With our first 3 picks and our front 7 got the pieces we lacked last year

 

[SteveKiner]

I would love it if bb drafted Davis.

The second defensive linemen from Georgia I really want bb to draft is Carter in the 2023 draft.

I totally agree with this, but I think the only way the Pats sniff Jalen Carter is if he gets hurt (or the Pats really suck)If he plays as projected, he will be a top 5 pick in 2023. He is a beast.