2022 PTP Draft Board / Pats Draft Talk

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

L step to create space laterally & vertically. Nice job at using his length while reducing the surface area to win. Like Barmore he's great in a slant system. Love his aggression & fight.




Look at the way he moves down the line.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Thanks @BaconGrundleCandy . What do you see in Leal that Jermaine Johnson does not have. Johnson seems more in control and patient to me - really impressed with Johnson. Of course, Leal is heavier, and possibly more stout.

 

[upstater1]

If we're here talking about Wyatt, Gordon and Johnson compared to the guys touted to go in the top 25, then this draft is really really deep.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Fantastic thread start to finish. I've been way out of the loop this year compared with my usual efforts, so this is treat to read through. Thanks for all your efforts, @BaconGrundleCandy!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Thanks @BaconGrundleCandy . What do you see in Leal that Jermaine Johnson does not have. Johnson seems more in control and patient to me - really impressed with Johnson. Of course, Leal is heavier, and possibly more stout.

It's Leal's upside, versatility & skill-set that's intriguing & possibly very valuable.

In terms of an overall prospect, generally speaking bc they play different positions. Leal is a little more of a project, on the inside of course. I think Johnson is a more NFL ready as a run defender even though he has his inconsistencies I think they're more coaching & technique(s) fixable whereas Leal definitely has to add weight to sustain play in the trenches.
I always get nervous hearing "undersized" bc simply put, the NFL is all about size. For example you just don't see 180lb WR's killing it. Or smaller CB's with short arms. I think it's safe to say JJ will have an easier time finding a home in terms of alignment / technique whereas Leal needs the right spot, right environment to really hit his peak.

That peak coupled with his skill set is what really gets me going. It's always nice to have a pass rushing 34 end that can hold up in the run game.

I'd be very tempted to just remake the DL this draft/FA. Maybe get lucky with an edge like Johnson, Walker or Karlaftis & BPA IDL in the 2nd round?

I'm also curious about what we think of Chandler Jones bc him & Judon would cause nightmares together. Two really crafty rushers with big motors.

OLB Jones
5T Wyatt/Mathis/Leal
0 Davis, Jones
5T Barmore
OLB Judon

I actually think you can put Davis in the 3T on certain pressure downs. He played a fair amount of that at UG & we ask things more along his skill set from that technique.

Don't know if that lineup above isn't typical NEP but man would it be disruptive!

 

[*ChungFu*]

I think Johnson and a big DT added to this line would greatly improve the defense.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

It's Leal's upside, versatility & skill-set that's intriguing & possibly very valuable.

In terms of an overall prospect, generally speaking bc they play different positions. Leal is a little more of a project, on the inside of course. I think Johnson is a more NFL ready as a run defender even though he has his inconsistencies I think they're more coaching & technique(s) fixable whereas Leal definitely has to add weight to sustain play in the trenches.
I always get nervous hearing "undersized" bc simply put, the NFL is all about size. For example you just don't see 180lb WR's killing it. Or smaller CB's with short arms. I think it's safe to say JJ will have an easier time finding a home in terms of alignment / technique whereas Leal needs the right spot, right environment to really hit his peak.

That peak coupled with his skill set is what really gets me going. It's always nice to have a pass rushing 34 end that can hold up in the run game.

I'd be very tempted to just remake the DL this draft/FA. Maybe get lucky with an edge like Johnson, Walker or Karlaftis & BPA IDL in the 2nd round?

I'm also curious about what we think of Chandler Jones bc him & Judon would cause nightmares together. Two really crafty rushers with big motors.



I actually think you can put Davis in the 3T on certain pressure downs. He played a fair amount of that at UG & we ask things more along his skill set from that technique.

Don't know if that lineup above isn't typical NEP but man would it be disruptive!

I would love that lineup but also jermaine Johnson for the OLB/Edge position. This team lacks a true 3 down edge defender who can play the run and win pass rush reps. Those running plays against Ekwonu who might be the best run blocking tackle in the league are impressive.
If you could land him with the first pick it would be a good value/need and complement next to judon. I don't really see a true edge defender here for next season besides KvN who did it this season but he could get other alignments depending on the ILB moves.

OLB Johnson/Judon
3 DT: Wyatt-Fatukasi/Jones-Barmore

This would require heavy investments in the d-Line which i don't think will happen but it would be a dream.

More realistic imo is God at either Wyatt or Fatukasi's role due to the cap and other needs who are glaring at OT/CB imo.
I could imagine we could improve a bit like this:
OLB: Johnson/Judon
DT: God-Davis/McCall-Barmore

This wouldn't really be an improvement but i think BB will go in different directions. I guess CB, DE are high priorities for the draft. We can find some run stoppers via FA or later on

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think Johnson and a big DT added to this line would greatly improve the defense.

I really like Johnson, he is quick off the snap and has bend around the edge. Plus he is decent against the run.

He would be a nice complement to judon.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

@BaconGrundleCandy , if you could only choose 2 of the players you listed for the pats to walk away with this draft..who would they be and why?

As always, you are the GOAT!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@BaconGrundleCandy , if you could only choose 2 of the players you listed for the pats to walk away with this draft..who would they be and why?

As always, you are the GOAT!

Man this is a tough one. Sorry for late response but I wanted to give it some thought and was really busy the past two days. And lazy and tired lol.

Treylon Burks - I can't ignore the obvious here. I dubbed him "AK Browncalf" after AJ Brown and DK Metcalf last year. And recently he's been called a bigger Deebo (I should have seen that) who I thought was perfect for us. Also seen someone mention Josh Gordon.

Why?
Burks is an animal. You have your point guards or short stops like Dotson, Olave and Robinson. Burks is a centerfielder and stretch PF/4. He's 6'3/225 with enormous hands and almost hit 23mph this year. Which would have been among the fastest in the NFL last year. Maybe the fastest?! He's big & really fast but also has good movements for 225. Pretty elusive for his size. Good balance/contact balance with plus play strength. You can use him anywhere. He can win outside vs press and beat you deep. Can work the MOF and be deployed from the slot. Arkansas used him in motion, detached like a TE, out of the backfield.
I've said that we need an easy button and he's it. Not only does he make his QB better with his hands, catch radius and yac but he should be a dream for any OC bc of his versatility.

We've had trouble beating man/press for a few years. Need a solid deep threat to complement the rest of targets. And have no one with his versatility or play strength. He might never be an elite r/r but it's everything else that stands out and is just different.

For the second prospect I had pick between Travon, Walker, Jermaine Johnson and McDuffie. I'll go with McDuffie. Idk if I like him more than the others but I love all three and feel really good that all will be impact pros.

McDuffie allows you to do so much back there. Like Burks he brings a ton of versatility in what he can do and in turn allows you to be very scheme flexible. Comes from Washington so he's versed in everything zone, cloud coverage with spatial awareness and speed to bait QB's. He's great in man and zone and brings a lot of competitive toughness. Twitched up with light feet. Very annoying in your face throughout the rep in man. Big time player in run support and in open space.

He's got that dog attitude with a lot athleticism. Like Burks just feel real comfortable about him.





(go after Robinson in the 3rd)

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You could say this every year. It's just lower this year, like from 1-60.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You could say this every year. It's just lower this year, like from 1-60.

Usually the top 10 to 15 players stand out. Since the # of standouts is less this year, does that mean this year's draft is deep, or sucks? Remember the 2013 draft? That was a deep draft too - they all sucked from 1 to 60.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Usually the top 10 to 15 players stand out. Since the # of standouts is less this year, does that mean this year's draft is deep, or sucks? Remember the 2013 draft? That was a deep draft too - they all sucked from 1 to 60.

Yea I've seen this year compared to 2013 a few times and it makes sense. It's pretty deep overall but I wouldn't want any 6th or 7th round picks this year. Some positions aren't top heavy or deep (QB, TE) so I could see a run on DL, CB, WR, LB leaving scraps after round 4-5.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yea I've seen this year compared to 2013 a few times and it makes sense. It's pretty deep overall but I wouldn't want any 6th or 7th round picks this year. Some positions aren't top heavy or deep (QB, TE) so I could see a run on DL, CB, WR, LB leaving scraps after round 4-5.

Thanks. Good to know. Seems to line up. I like how you try to grade to a standard, not player to player, because that creates some equivalence from year to year.

 

[venecol]

List of Patriots 1st round picks from mock drafts by experts around the league. I'm surprised so many believe Pats are picking a WR. Llyod gets the most picks.

(5) DEVIN LLOYD, LB, UTAH
(2) NAKOBE DEAN, ILB, GEORGIA
(2) JAMESON WILLIAMS, WR, ALABAMA
CHRIS OLAVE, WR, OHIO STATE
GEORGE PICKENS, WR, GEORGIA
TREYLON BURKS, WR, ARKANSAS
JAHAN DOTSON, WR, PENN STATE
TRENT MCDUFFIE, CB, WASHINGTON
KYLER GORDON, CB, WASHINGTON
LEO CHENAL, LB, WISCONSIN
TRAVON WALKER, EDGE, GEORGIA
CAMERON THOMAS, DE, SAN DIEGO ST
JORDAN DAVIS, DL, GEORGIA
BOYE MAFE, DL, MINNESOTA
SEAN RHYAN, OT, UCLA

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

List of Patriots 1st round picks from mock drafts by experts around the league. I'm surprised so many believe Pats are picking a WR. Llyod gets the most picks.

(5) DEVIN LLOYD, LB, UTAH
(2) NAKOBE DEAN, ILB, GEORGIA

We haven't drafted a LB this size that early in the Bill era. So I'm leaning no on both even though I like them.

(2) JAMESON WILLIAMS, WR, ALABAMA
CHRIS OLAVE, WR, OHIO STATE

Williams is legit. Don't like the value with Olave in the 1st but love the fit here. With Bourne, Meyers & Agholor he seems a bit redundant though?

GEORGE PICKENS, WR, GEORGIA

Pickens is a headcase and will never be a NEP. I'm surprised someone would mock him here but everyone is a draftnik this time of year. Plus he's closer to a 3rd round pick than a first. Value doesn't match.

TREYLON BURKS, WR, ARKANSAS

very much an option

JAHAN DOTSON, WR, PENN STATE

love the prospect but hes a 2nd rounder imo.

TRENT MCDUFFIE, CB, WASHINGTON

very much an option

KYLER GORDON, CB, WASHINGTON

he's going to go earlier than most think. He'll kill the combine and be one of the "winners" there and has good tape.

LEO CHENAL, LB, WISCONSIN

not in the first. Value isn't there imo. Solid 2nd round prospect but I can't RD1.

TRAVON WALKER, EDGE, GEORGIA

Very much an option

CAMERON THOMAS, DE, SAN DIEGO ST

2nd-3rd round

JORDAN DAVIS, DL, GEORGIA

very much in play and I could get my head around it. He changes the game on 1st & 2nd down. One man gang.

BOYE MAFE, DL, MINNESOTA

2nd-3rd round

SEAN RHYAN, OT, UCLA

One round too early.


That leaves Davis, McDuffie, Burks, Walker, Williams, Gordon.

What would folks rather?
Burks RD1
Travis Jones RD2

McDuffie RD1
Travis Jones RD2

Walker/Johnson
Dotson/Jones RD2

Davis RD1
McCreary RD2

Got this idea from @TheRazorsEdge
Let's say all these guy are available at 21 ...
McDuffie, Burks, Johnson, Davis, Walker, Williams, Booth, Elam, Wyatt, Brisker & Hill (two guys that are definite options imo) and 5 are left at the end of RD1 or early RD2. Would you want to trade up to get two? Like the options above?

 

[venecol]

We haven't drafted a LB this size that early in the Bill era. So I'm leaning no on both even though I like them.

Maybe it's time to change philosophy for a guy like Lloyd.

Let's say all these guy are available at 21 ...
McDuffie, Burks, Johnson, Davis, Walker, Williams, Booth, Elam, Wyatt, Brisker & Hill (two guys that are definite options imo) and 5 are left at the end of RD1 or early RD2. Would you want to trade up to get two? Like the options above?

That's a good question. Not sure I would trade up, maybe down. But if we can get 2 of these guys in the 1st 2 rounds, it would go a long way to filling in positions of need.

McDuffie/Booth/Travis Jones

Wouldn't take a WR in 1st round though. I'm all in on investing in order DL/CB/LB/OL/WR.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Maybe it's time to change philosophy for a guy like Lloyd.

Or just live with certain weaknesses with guys like that. I think you can do both or again just accept certain flaws bc everyone has them.

Dean vs Lloyd is a very interesting one. I need some testing #'s to complete my grades but can't not see them LB 1 & 2.

Lloyd is more versatile. Can play multiple spots, I think he could do a lot for us in that regard, on & off the los. Obviously his pass rushing skills. He's physical and has closing speed.
Dean is more explosive out the gate, more acceleration. Lighter on his feet very quick and nimble. Better range & lateral flow. Physical and handles contact a a little better in some regards in run support when fitting a run. His size limits him whereas Lloyds length allows him to keep his outside shoulder clean on the los. Lloyd is tighter in terms of change of direction / short area quicks.

Both need to improve run recognition. Very interesting debate. I just think there's enough guys that fit the classic mold for better or worse. Guys like Chenal, Muma, Luketa, Sanborn, Beavers or maybe compromise with Clark, Walker or Tindall?

That's a good question. Not sure I would trade up, maybe down. But if we can get 2 of these guys in the 1st 2 rounds, it would go a long way to filling in positions of need.

Yea I'm all for trading down to 28-32 or 33-38.

McDuffie/Booth/Travis Jones

I love all three. Again I need some testing #'s but I'd guess my CB grades shakes out Stingley, Booth, McDuffie, Elam, Sauce so if we get one of Booth / McDuffie I'll be ecstatic.

Figure Jones will be IDL4 or 5.

Wouldn't take a WR in 1st round though. I'm all in on investing in order DL/CB/LB/OL/WR.

I know this isn't very realistic but I'm all for going DL back to back.

Imagine adding Jordan Davis and one of Leal/Wyatt/Mathis with Barmore.