2019 NE CAP SPACE

[mgteich]

Yes and I'm not sure they really improve their overall position by doing do.

I agree that cutting Hightower does not improve the team.

The question is the effect of the other measures that would be need instead of this one. Alternatively, the question is Hightower worth more than what $8.75M will get us. I don't know.

Apparently, we got 5 players for under $10M (Simon, Dorsett, Pennell, Brooks and Harris). Would we pass on all of these and keep Hightower instead? The cost is about the same.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't think it is injury related because ppl wanted to pay OBJ that played 59 games last 5 years. HT played 58 ... 33 x 32 last 3 years ... It is all about bring a new toy.

I think we are getting more and more mixed up. Hightower was the example but we are talking about Gilly's money. So your saying you are afraid to push Gilmore's money into the future because it will prevent us from getting new toys then?
There's no argument there moving money into the future will eat future cap which could be a new toy. Hopefully there's enough room to cover it because we want the new toys now too.

First, I would note that we have almost ZERO cap money at the moment. The current $9.9M may or may not be enough to cover outstanding announced contracts to Simon, Dorsett, Pennell, Brooks and Harris.
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The options as always are restructures, extensions and cuts. Since some of the costs don;t occur until the season starts, some of these restructures can happen in August. I believe last year we used Gilmore's contract for this purpose.

POSSIBLE RESTRUCTURES
Bennett
Mason
Cannon
Gilmore

CUT, RESTRUCTURE, EXTEND OR RETIRE
Hightower (one or the other WILL happen)
Gronkowski

POSSIBLE EXTENSIONS
Brady
McCourty
Van Noy

How confident are you we can get there without Gronk or Hightower getting cut/retiring?

I hope I'm not coming off as grilling you just spit balling. I don't want to lose anyone and obviously I still want cash for WR/TE/LT/ & DT. I think most of this can be filled through the draft but some require vets that can be more expected to have immediate impact. There clearly is more spending to do with little $.

 

[mgteich]

I just posted a thread and poll on that very subject. You might add "traded" since Detroit might consider trading a late pick for Hightower.

.

How confident are you we can get there without Gronk or Hightower getting cut/retiring?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree that cutting Hightower does not improve the team.

The question is the effect of the other measures that would be need instead of this one. Alternatively, the question is Hightower worth more than what $8.75M will get us. I don't know.

Apparently, we got 5 players for under $10M (Simon, Dorsett, Pennell, Brooks and Harris). Would we pass on all of these and keep Hightower instead? The cost is about the same.

Yea. High in the playoffs is worth it.

High during Weeks 1-13ish were not.

 

[Family]

The question is the effect of the other measures that would be need instead of this one. Alternatively, the question is Hightower worth more than what $8.75M will get us. I don't know.

Hightower only costs us $6 million in cap vs cutting him.

Are you saying they will be cut him because of the added cash they have to pay?

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

not even close to enough

It MORE than enough.

They have: $9,899,221 NOW ( Does not yet account for the Dorsett, Harris, Brooks, Pennel, and Simon signings) and $96,035,764 next year

Let say:

Brees signed for 25M per. Lets give Brady 28M per and add another 2 years to his current deal.

We can extend him giving him the following deal: 26.5M SB = $21,746,667 / $29,816,667 / $31,816,667 = 28M per (that is a top 3 contract for a 42 year old QB that takes bellow market deals)

Lets move on Extend DMac>

They can extend him giving him the following deal: 4M SB = $11,435,000/ $10,000,000 = 10.7M per avg (that is pretty much the same contract Joyner got on FA and he is 4 years younger, a lit bit more to be honest)

Lets give Gostkowski a better deal than Gano (I don't count Gould as the better deal because it is a one year deal)

We can extend him giving him the following deal 4 years: 9M SB (Gano got 6M) = $3,750,000 / $4,050,000 / $4,350,000 / $5,050,000 = 4.3M per (top 1 contract for a Kicker, better than the Pro bowler that Hawks signed)

Lets give Allen a top 5 P deal:

We can extend him giving him the following deal 4 years: 6M SB = $2,305,000 / $2,600,000 / $3,000,000 / $3,300,000

We have $9,187,298 after all this moves ...

Draft picks will cost less than $2,500,000 if we keep ALL. That will not happen, but we are pretending ....

I think the APY will be lower but lets assume the following deals

$6,687,298

Dorsett APY = 3.3M
Simon APY = 3.1M + 3.7M + Incentives
Harris = 1.8M
Brooks = 1.6M + 2.8M
Pennel = 3M + 4.5M

They have now 86 players signed for 2019 and $1,439,229 left. That cap will increase when they cut players.

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In 2020 they have $39,119,097 (- $2,500,000 to sign all picks more or less (that they won't keep) so $36,619,097.

56 players under contract.

And the following FAs:

Rob Gronkowski - Retired
Julian Edelman - Beasley got 3 years 7.1M per = Give him 7.5M per.
Kyle Van Noy - Give him 10M per (Top 5 contract for a OLB) 4 years = 7.5M/9M/11.25M/12.25M
Jonathan Jones - 4M per 3 years 3.2M /3.8M/5M
Joe Thuney - Give him 10M per (Top 5 contract) 5 years = 5.5M/8.25M/11.25M/12.25M /12.75M
Elandon Roberts - 4M per 3 years 3.2M /3.8M/5M

$13,219,097 Cap space left and 61 players signed ...

Why we need more space? Why it is ''not even close'' ? Do you have any info to support your claim?

 

[mgteich]

I'm not saying that we cut him.

But yes, Hightower is due a lot money this year, and the $6M cap savings is considerable for someone with his injury history.

That being said, I think that it more likely than not that Hightower stays.

Hightower only costs us $6 million in cap vs cutting him.

Are you saying they will be cut him because of the added cash they have to pay?

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

I think we are getting more and more mixed up. Hightower was the example but we are talking about Gilly's money. So your saying you are afraid to push Gilmore's money into the future because it will prevent us from getting new toys then?
There's no argument there moving money into the future will eat future cap which could be a new toy. Hopefully there's enough room to cover it because we want the new toys now too.

How confident are you we can get there without Gronk or Hightower getting cut/retiring?

I hope I'm not coming off as grilling you just spit balling. I don't want to lose anyone and obviously I still want cash for WR/TE/LT/ & DT. I think most of this can be filled through the draft but some require vets that can be more expected to have immediate impact. There clearly is more spending to do with little $.

No i am not against it.

I am against of judging a player based on his Cap Number.

If you push Gilmore SB he will have a massive number but he is totally worth it.

I don't like this witch hunt to save pennies for guys that helped us a lot.

 

[50-yard-line]

When talking about Hightower, it should be noted that if the Patriots plan to cut him, they threw away $2m YESTERDAY, when that much of his salary became guaranteed.

 

[Family]

The issue I see this year is the two players who normally make the most sense to extend, Gronk & McCourty will either cost too much in this new market, and/or they won't extend.

This doesn't mean the Pats are in cap hell or can not sign anyone left, but this is the bump that forces plan B.

 

[mgteich]

The $2M would be paid by Detroit if we trade Hightower for a 2020 6th.

I'm not suggesting this, but I don't think that the $2M is relevant if Hightower is traded.

When talking about Hightower, it should be noted that if the Patriots plan to cut him, they threw away $2m YESTERDAY, when that much of his salary became guaranteed.

 

[50-yard-line]

The $2M would be paid by Detroit if we trade Hightower for a 2020 6th.

I'm not suggesting this, but I don't think that the $2M is relevant if Hightower is traded.

I don't know, speculation is fun, but it seems to me that this is just that - we don't even know the current cap space. And while the Pats don't like pushing money ahead, they have a lot of room next year. There's no way they were going hard on Humphries, for example, if they were in a desperate situation.

 

[Sciz]

The $2M would be paid by Detroit if we trade Hightower for a 2020 6th.

I'm not suggesting this, but I don't think that the $2M is relevant if Hightower is traded.

It’s relevant in that it would be a $2 million bet on Hightower’s ability to pass a physical with the Lions.

 

[signbabybrady]

No i am not against it.

I am against of judging a player based on his Cap Number.

If you push Gilmore SB he will have a massive number but he is totally worth it.

I don't like this witch hunt to save pennies for guys that helped us a lot.

Ok we're pretty much on the same page then.

 

[p8ryts]

I don't get this urge to cut Hightower. He is a playmaker. He's not that expensive. Yes, Flowers and Brown are gone. We have suitable replacements already, they will get Allen and Gostowski signed when cap machinations take place. TE may or may not require further attention. We still have the draft and training camp/September candidates that will come available. The team is still well positioned and many of the moves you are proposing may be more appropriate next year.

 

[mgteich]

I don't get this urge to cut Hightower. He is a playmaker. He's not that expensive. Yes, Flowers and Brown are gone. We have suitable replacements already, they will get Allen and Gostowski signed when cap machinations take place. TE may or may not require further attention. We still have the draft and training camp/September candidates that will come available. The team is still well positioned and many of the moves you are proposing may be more appropriate next year.

cap machinations?

Next year, we have more than $85M in cap space.

 

[BTTA]

I don't get this urge to cut Hightower. He is a playmaker. He's not that expensive. Yes, Flowers and Brown are gone. We have suitable replacements already, they will get Allen and Gostowski signed when cap machinations take place. TE may or may not require further attention. We still have the draft and training camp/September candidates that will come available. The team is still well positioned and many of the moves you are proposing may be more appropriate next year.

It is a simple equation. Is he still the playmaker that he was? Close? Will he be by the time the playoffs start in 10 months?
Cutting him after June 1 saves nearly $9M in cap. That's a lot when the team is already near the point where it needs the cooperation of players currently under contract to make the cap work for this coming year. From what I've read, the salary structure for the 2019 team is different than it has been in the past, with nearly twice the number of highly paid vets, and more middle class vets than is typical (rather than players on rookie deals).

I love what he's done for the Pats over the years. But that sentiment is irrelevant. The team is making a calculation on whether he's worth the money this coming year. We are all just guessing at how that calculation is being made, and what the outcomes might be. They might not take more than 2 minutes on it, and just pay him, and figure out the cap other ways. Who knows?

 

[Sciz]

Cutting him after June 1 saves nearly $9M in cap.

The savings are now $2 million less than 24 hours ago since that much of his salary became guaranteed. If they were going to cut him, the way to do it would have been to release him prior to the vesting yesterday but with the June 1 designation, as the Chiefs did with Eric Berry last week.

 

[TennisBallHead]

Maybe if they could actually hit on some drafts they wouldn't be in trouble with the cap

 

[SBLIII]

Maybe if they could actually hit on some drafts they wouldn't be in trouble with the cap

They did hit on a good number of picks.

And they will have lots of chances in the next 2 years with 11 picks in the top 3 rounds in 2019 and 2020.