2018 Training Camp Thread - Day 14* (8/14/18)

[Deus Irae]

Don't get me wrong - it is disturbing to lose Mitchell and Matthews and have Britt, Burkhead, Michel, and now possibly Allen, Dorsett out of practice - but this has nothing to do with offseason fundamental strategy. Every team would be seriously affected with this kind of attrition of rec. corps.

"This kind of attrition" is nothing special, given the group.

Mitchell - Well known injury problem, missed all last year
Edelman - recovering from ACL surgery
Britt - Long injury history
Matthews - coming off a season with a broken thumb, a fractured sternum and knee and ankle injuries that got him IR'd.
Michel - knee injury that was known about before he was drafted
Burkhead - Injury history

And, of course it has to do with offseason fundamental strategy. They chose injury players. They got injuries.

And, if they'd kept Amendola, it would have been keeping another injury prone player, but it would have been keeping an injury prone player who's showed the ability to return from injury and still perform.

 

[RobertWeathers]

IDK why the team doesn't just sign Dez Bryant. It would be a 1 year thing but clearly he would be good here.

Dez would happily take 6M for 1 year to play with Brady and set himself up for that last contract. No reason not to at this point.

How do you know he will be good here?

How do you know he would take $6m?

 

[Kontradiction]

How do you know he will be good here?

How do you know he would take $6m?

I think it's pretty clear that a lot of people didn't watch Dez last season. He's lost a step and he was never the brightest bulb in the box to begin with.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think it's pretty clear that a lot of people didn't watch Dez last season. He's lost a step and he was never the brightest bulb in the box to begin with.

Yep. He's slow now. Highly doubtful he can make a difference here.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yep. He's slow now. Highly doubtful he can make a difference here.

It would be Ocho 2.0. A player past his prime that can’t be trusted to be in the right spot causing Brady to lose faith in him quickly. This team badly needs another WR, but Dez ain’t it.

 

[luuked]

It would be Ocho 2.0. A player past his prime that can’t be trusted to be in the right spot causing Brady to lose faith in him quickly. This team badly needs another WR, but Dez ain’t it.

I have been looking at FA charts for 2019 and 2020 and there really are no interesting targets that you could realistically trade for. A classic underperformer like Kevin White would not solve anything immediately. Interesting players like Devante Parker are unfortunately with a team that would never trade him at reasonable value to us. And the ones that would be difference makers like Amari Cooper are unlikely to even be available despite a horrific season last year.

No idea..

 

[patriot1136]

It would be Ocho 2.0. A player past his prime that can’t be trusted to be in the right spot causing Brady to lose faith in him quickly. This team badly needs another WR, but Dez ain’t it.

Do we know of anyone else out there veteran-wise that is available? I'm guessing more will be after cuts.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It would be Ocho 2.0. A player past his prime that can’t be trusted to be in the right spot causing Brady to lose faith in him quickly. This team badly needs another WR, but Dez ain’t it.

If they want a big body on the outside I wonder when Brandon Coleman will be healthy? Saints just cut him because he wasn't healthy. Tall kid. Did well as a WR3 in NO the past couple of years. He did well vs us last year.

Hes from Rutgers so he'd fit right in.

 

[Kontradiction]

Do we know of anyone else out there veteran-wise that is available? I'm guessing more will be after cuts.

They'd have to comb through the scrap heap after cuts. And I expect they will. Dorsett has had a good camp but he's been a bust on the field, to date. On top of that, Britt has never been healthy, Edelman is coming off of an ACL and has a four game suspension to serve, Patterson is a WR3 at best, Lucien is camp fodder, and the combo of McCarron/Berrios are an unproven practice squad-er and an undersized rookie.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They'd have to comb through the scrap heap after cuts. And I expect they will. Dorsett has had a good camp but he's been a bust on the field, to date. On top of that, Britt has never been healthy, Edelman is coming off of an ACL and has a four game suspension to serve, Patterson is a WR3 at best, Lucien is camp fodder, and the combo of McCarron/Berrios are an unproven practice squad-er and an undersized rookie.

I'm not optimistic for Decker being successful here either.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not optimistic for Decker being successful here either.

Forgot to include him. I think he'll be here in the end but he's clearly past his prime. This is a WR corps that shouldn't scare anyone. Teams in the first four weeks will either stick their CB1 on Hogan and shade a safety to his side while doubling Gronk or will stick their CB1 on Gronk and double him and trust their CB2 to take out Hogan. I expect the Jags in Week 2 to do a lot of the latter with Ramsey on Gronk, Bouye on Hogan, and then choking off everything they can underneath. Hopefully Michel and Burkhead are healthy because the Patriots will need to be able to run the ball on them (which might be tough sledding in and of itself with the Taven Bryan now joining the fray).

 

[Sicilian]

They'd have to comb through the scrap heap after cuts. And I expect they will. Dorsett has had a good camp but he's been a bust on the field, to date. On top of that, Britt has never been healthy, Edelman is coming off of an ACL and has a four game suspension to serve, Patterson is a WR3 at best, Lucien is camp fodder, and the combo of McCarron/Berrios are an unproven practice squad-er and an undersized rookie.

I have no doubt they'll look, but I'm not holding my breath on a cast off coming in here and learning the system enough to make a difference at this late stage. Going forward, my focus (I know, that makes it sound like I'm part of the team, which is pathetic, blah blah) is on the other factors that can compensate for the lack of WR production after Edelman and Hogan:

1) Greater contributions in the passing game from the TE2

2) More involvement in the passing game from the RBs (may be a tall order, given how involved they typically have been already)

3) More focus on the actual running game to balance things out

4) Improved defense, taking some pressure off the offense

Not that I believe all of those things are likely, I just find them to be more realistic hopes than finding a diamond in the rough who succeeds in this offense without a training camp.

Or hopefully one of Britt, Dorsett, Patterson, or a rook steps up. But I agree with you on the concerns regarding each of them.

 

[Kontradiction]

I have no doubt they'll look, but I'm not holding my breath on a cast off coming in here and learning the system enough to make a difference at this late stage. Going forward, my focus (I know, that makes it sound like I'm part of the team, which is pathetic, blah blah) is on the other factors that can compensate for the lack of WR production after Edelman and Hogan:

1) Greater contributions in the passing game from the TE2

2) More involvement in the passing game from the RBs (may be a tall order, given how involved they typically have been already)

3) More focus on the actual running game to balance things out

4) Improved defense, taking some pressure off the offense

Not that I believe all of those things are likely, I just find them to be more realistic hopes than finding a diamond in the rough who succeeds in this offense without a training camp.

Or hopefully one of Britt, Dorsett, Patterson, or a rook steps up. But I agree with you on the concerns regarding each of them.

I think if you're getting positive contributions from Shelton, Bentley, and Rivers, the defense is destined to improve. They're all new additions at areas which were clear weaknesses from the team last year. They'll need it in the first four weeks because the offense may sputter a bit through the air before Edelman gets back (assuming no moves are made for another quality WR).

 

[maineman209]

Do we know of anyone else out there veteran-wise that is available? I'm guessing more will be after cuts.

FWIW, since July 29th, the Pats have given tryouts to Dontrelle Inman (supposedly), DECKER, Cobi Hamilton and Brent Bersin. It's not as if they aren't keeping tabs on potential WRs.

 

[Sicilian]

I think if you're getting positive contributions from Shelton, Bentley, and Rivers, the defense is destined to improve. They're all new additions at areas which were clear weaknesses from the team last year. They'll need it in the first four weeks because the offense may sputter a bit through the air before Edelman gets back (assuming no moves are made for another quality WR).

Yeah, I agree. I would also add a second year jump from Wise and a rotational contribution from Clayborn as reasons to feel good about an improvement. Plus we have a lot of CB competition, but that's all trying to make up for the departure of a CB2, so I have a hard time assuming we're better there. It's possible, but need to see how things shake out first.

 

[Kontradiction]

FWIW, since July 29th, the Pats have given tryouts to Dontrelle Inman (supposedly), DECKER, Cobi Hamilton and Brent Bersin. It's not as if they aren't keeping tabs on potential WRs.

Yep. And for good reason.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, I agree. I would also add a second year jump from Wise and a rotational contribution from Clayborn as reasons to feel good about an improvement. Plus we have a lot of CB competition, but that's all trying to make up for the departure of a CB2, so I have a hard time assuming we're better there. It's possible, but need to see how things shake out first.

CB2 is a question mark right now. My guess is that either Jon Jones (my preference) or Rowe ends up with the job to start the season.

 

[Sicilian]

CB2 is a question mark right now. My guess is that either Jon Jones (my preference) or Rowe ends up with the job to start the season.

Is Jon Jones an outside guy? I always assumed he was more of a slot corner, but I don't really know. Either way, I guess CB2 is kind of nebulous. You might need your "second best" corner to be covering the slot. It would be nice if he stepped up in general, giving us two reliable guys to use regularly, and then a platoon of Rowe/McCourty depending on scheme/matchup.

 

[maineman209]

Is Jon Jones an outside guy? I always assumed he was more of a slot corner, but I don't really know. Either way, I guess CB2 is kind of nebulous. You might need your "second best" corner to be covering the slot. It would be nice if he stepped up in general, giving us two reliable guys to use regularly, and then a platoon of Rowe/McCourty depending on scheme/matchup.

IIRC, JJ did some work on the right boundary last season, when Rowe and Gilmore were out at the same time. Bademosi also played the right boundary a bit.

I don't know whether or not it was when JJ was playing boundary or slot, but he had two PBUs on corner routes in the EZ last season, using trail technique and timing his leap for the deflection perfectly. BB, in his post-game presser, singled out JJ's technique for praise on one of those breakups, saying, "That's exactly how we teach it."

I think JJ may be one of those guys who's going to be solid no matter where he lines up.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not optimistic for Decker being successful here either.

Depends upon how you define success and how the other receivers shake out.
If decker is wr4 and can be WR3 while Edelman out, that’s a level of success that make results in 25 catches all season.[/QUOTE]