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2018 Defense vs 2019 Defense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BobDigital, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    It's hard not to feel good about this defense seeing what they were last year and what their roster looks like this year. It has the potential to be the best defense in the NFL.
     
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  2. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Alot of good players but they haven't accomplished anything yet

    How will the pass rush be... Run defense should be better
     
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  3. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don’t think statically they will be ranked that high because they just aren’t designed that way, but they look better on paper. With that being said, there are a few questions:

    -Is Pennel an upgrade over Brown?
    -Does Bennett have enough in the tank for us to forget about Flowers next year?
    -Has Wise hit his ceiling?
    -Will Rivers show us anything or will he be pushed out by Winovich or even Cowart?
     
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  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why wouldn’t they be able to potentially be the best defense in the nfl?

    Last year 7
    17-18. 6
    16-18. 1
    15-18. 1
    14-18. 1
     
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  5. 50-yard-line

    50-yard-line In the Starting Line-Up

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    Brown was spotty last year. Pennell should be at least as good as that.
    Love Bennett - but this is a good question. Flowers was pretty danged good. Would love to see one more addition - Ansah/Bailey, even Shelton.
    Wise is pretty good, but he'll have to up his game this year, I think. More competition, at least initially.
    Winovich will pass Rivers, I think, unless Rivers REALLY steps up.

    The LB corps is strong and deep. Roberts got a lot better at the end of the year, I thought. Bentley should allow them to give HT more flexibility.

    Secondary is league's best.

    Unless injuries trash them, this D should be stellar.
     
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  6. ausbacker

    ausbacker TB12 PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bennett ---- Pennell ---- Guy ---- Winovich
    Van Noy - Bentley - Hightower​
    Gilmore -- McCourty -- Chung -- McCourty

    Guys in serious consideration for starting roles or first rotation include Wise (I simply wanted to put Chase in to see what it would look like), Butler, Harmon, Roberts, Jackson (potentially Williams).

    It's not so much the starters but the depth in the Secondary looks legitimate. I'd argue the Pats could probably afford to add another DT and another LB but outside of that, the D looks more than decent.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  7. VectorPrime

    VectorPrime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Gonna depend on Bentley and Dawson being contributors but it should be better.
     
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  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan TB12, BB = G.O.A.T.s PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reasons to say no:

    Bennett could be a big downgrade from Flowers
    Older players like Hightower (old body not years), Chung, McCourtey *2 could show their age
    Defense was fairly healthy last year, injuries could hit

    Reasons to say yes:

    Bennett could give us similar quality to Flowers, despite being older
    Kids (Wise, Bentley, Jackson) will have more experience
    Williams could give big matchup help
    Simon will have more experience in the D
    Winovich should help with Wise to be an upgrade over Clayborn

    Overall:

    Hoping for the best. Hopefully Bennett click, age doesn't kick in and we stay fairly injury free.
     
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  9. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is a good discussion for the bye week.

    Seriously, this primarily depends on who is injured by then.

    BTW, I expect 2-3 additions before Game 2.

     
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  10. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    All depends on how much a downgrade flowers to bennett is. Im gonna play it safe and call a push.

    Improvements (imo, obviously remains to be seen for the most part):
    Bentley back
    + j williams to secondary
    + winovich to de rotation
    Pennel over brown

    Betting this all makes up for flowers to bennett
     
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  11. 50-yard-line

    50-yard-line In the Starting Line-Up

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    I wouldn't be surprised to see Simon make a big jump this year, either, by the way. He was pretty good come playoff time. Tipped a couple of balls and was generally messing up passing lanes.
     
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  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We'll see where we are at the time of the bye. Lots of work needs to be done. The front seven has lots of new players that will take time to gel. The secondary is one of the very best in the NFL.

    Winovich is a replacement for Clayborn. So, Bennett and Winovich replace Flowers and Clayborn.

    Pennell and Cowart replace Brown and Shelton. Maybe this is an upgrade. I suspect that we will still re-sign Shelton or another free agent.

    Bentley is an upgrade over McClellan at #4 LB.

    Williams will be an upgrade over Melifonwu who was on the 53 last year.


     
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  13. pctronics0072

    pctronics0072 On the Game Day Roster

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    I think that Bennet over Flowers will be a downgrade. The other concern I have is how Chung will be able to come back from injury and his other surgery (shoulder?).

    I think JJ Williams will add great depth for the Chung role and give him a breather.

    I think winovich will be playing significant snaps/starting by the end of the season.

    However, the main positive I see is that the majority of the starting defense is returning and the continuity will allow them to do all sorts of crazy fun stuff.
     
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  14. luuked

    luuked Pro Bowl Player

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    What exactly makes you feel like that ?
     
  15. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    Worried a little about the run D, but hopefully Pennell can fix that.
     
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cowart doesn’t replace brown or Shelton. Cowart is a very undersized DT.
    The rile of early down DT to stiff the run in nickel base is critical to the concept. If Cowart sees time in that role, we are in deep trouble.
     
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  17. patman52

    patman52 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I loved Bentley last year, It was the same feeling that I/we had after watching Flowers sack Rodgers as a rookie. "hell, we got someone here" reaction. That addition in my mind makes up for any potential downgrade from flowers to Bennett.
     
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  18. patman52

    patman52 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    6-3 and 300 lbs is not "very" under sized. Wise when he plays a 3 tech is. but by no means is Cowart.
     
  19. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Would be nice if Rivers shows up but I keep thinking Jake Beckett when I see Rivers's name hope he proves me wrong.:(
     
  20. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So, I just went through the PFR 2018 Pats snap totals and noted which guys saw significant time on D last year.

    Our "starting 2018 defense" (the 11 players with the most snaps):
    EDGE: 98 Flowers, 70.2%
    DL: 93 Guy, 49.8%
    DL: 90 Brown, 43.7%
    LB: 54 Hightower, 74.2%
    LB: 53 Van Noy, 90.7%
    CB: 24 Gilmore, 97.2%
    CB: 30 McCourty 80%

    CB: 31 Jones 49.4%
    S: 32 McCourty 96.3%
    S: 23 Chung 85%

    S: 21 Harmon 61%

    Guys who missed that cut but still saw a lot of time (or a bigger role at a certain part of the season before or after injury such as Bentley, Simon):
    EDGE: 91 Wise 41.4%
    LB: 52 Roberts 41.2%
    CB: 27 Jackson 37.9%
    DL: 70 Butler 36.3%
    DL: 71 Shelton 31.1%
    EDGE: 94 Clayborn 30.5%

    EDGE: 55 Simon 17.7%
    LB: 51 Bentley 13.2%

    Guys in bold left the team this offseason. I feel fairly confident with Bennett, Pennel, and Winovich respectively replacing the roles/snaps of Flowers, Brown, and Clayborn. I don't see any of those changes being downgrades, but potentially upgrades. This leaves Shelton as the lone player to be replaced, which was 31.1% of snaps last year (of generally mediocre quality, Super Bowl notwithstanding). I'm not terribly worried about replacing him because he wasn't very good to begin with; he's also still available.

    Now for the returning players who might have their workload lightened by new acquisitions. I've made their names italic. With Bentley returning, Van Noy and Hightower could be kept fresher, and Roberts doesn't have to be on the field as much (even though I'm much higher on him than most are). Joejuan Williams should enter the outside CB/TE-covering safety rotation and potentially keep Gilmore, the McCourty bros, and Chung fresh.

    Most of this defense is intact, which is definitely a good thing, but I want to remind everyone that what we saw in the Super Bowl is not what we saw the previous 17 games and is not what we will see in September. We didn't need to simply maintain the roster by replacing the lost players; we needed to upgrade. I think we did it.
     
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