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2017 Training Camp - Day 11 (8/8/17) [2nd Joint Practice with the Jaguars]


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New ride:

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Just a minor upgrade.
 
Is that what you saw in college? Or something you saw last year?

In college. But he did win a few jump balls last year, too.
 
Cover-2 is able to be exploited down the seam. That's where Gronk (even if he's double covered), Edelman, and Amendola will do most of their work. If defenses go into Cover-1, they had better be able to man up with Cooks/Hogan/Mitchell one on one or they're getting torched up top. I only see a few defenses that would be able to contain the Patriots offense from a personnel standpoint (able to generate a rush with four rushers, athletic linebackers, two very good corners, etc.).

I have been reading about cover -2's, how they are used and exploited. Interesting stuff.

1. Fewer teams are using traditional cover 2 because they are , as you have pointed out, susceptible on the outside and middle seams. But moreso today because teams are running complex routes which includes receivers adjusting their routes post snap.

2. However, teams are still using cover -2 for pre snap purposes but use more to confuse either the QB or the receiver post snap. Meaning their goal, as we saw in the SB, is to shift into a variant coverage out of the cover -2 hoping either the QB or the receiver will read it incorrectly leading to an incompletion or a turnover.

And I think the latter is the key to slowing down the Patriots. Disguising coverages, regardless of base, and confusing either the Pats receivers or QB into mistakes.


Here are a few of the links just in case anyone else is curious.

Throwing Against Cover 2 - Inside The Pylon

How Cover 2 Became an Endangered Species
 
leftovers..


O

-- Lewis looked good throughout, but he did cough up a fumble. He was hit in the backfield for a loss, and his forward progress appeared to be stopped -- or close to it -- when the ball came out. Bill Belichick took a piece of paper out of his pocket and tossed it on the ground, likely mimicking a referee throwing a bean bag to mark the spot of a fumble.

-- With the starting offense, Brandon Bolden was stuffed on the lone goal-line rush. With the backups, Rex Burkhead scored on one of two runs. He survived a wicked hit in the backfield to score on a second effort.

-- One interesting play for the Patriots offense came deep in the red zone on a fourth down situation. Surprisingly, Gronkowski was on the sideline and instead it was Dwayne Allen that was Brady’s target. Brady looked down the seam and Allen barely turned around before securing a nice back-shoulder throw for the touchdown. Brady immediately ran to his new tight end to congratulate him.

-- LaAdrian Waddle handled Dante Fowler Jr. in 1-on-1s.

-- K.J. Maye had an impressive day. His best catch occurred in the final period after falling down.


D

-- Patriots pass rush was effective in pretty much every team period. The Jags had the ball five times and the Patriots applied a good amount of pressure on Blake Bortles every time. Harvey Langi appeared to shake free for one of the would-be sacks.
-- Harvey Langi and Lawrence Guy combined for a sack.
-- Howe: Langi is raw but his potential is evident. He’s been playing outside linebacker in the 3-4 and has some reps when he is dominant and others when he follows the wrong guy or gets blown out of his gap. Hey, he’s an undrafted rookie who didn’t have a primary position in college, so this was expected. But if he achieves his full potential in a couple years, he could be a home run.

-- The Patriots have thrown a ton of defensive looks at the Jaguars over the two days. Their front seven is going to be creative with their blitz packages, and it clearly gave Bortles a lot of trouble. They have some picket fence looks where everyone is showing a blitz and changing it up after the snap. Plenty of variations.

-- With McClellin out, rookie Derek Rivers saw his most extensive work of the summer thus far. He was part of the subpackages and filled a variety of positions. He moved from the outside to the inside of various plays, mostly serving as a rusher, although he did drop into coverage on a couple of occasions as well. He didn’t appear to make many plays but his presence was notable nonetheless.
-- Rivers and Wise teamed for a sack of Blake Bortles.

-- After a solid first few practices, Van Noy has seen more time with the second-stringers as of late.
-- Kyle Van Noy had a tough time in coverage, losing Ivory on a swing out of the backfield that resulted in an easy touchdown for the Jags. He has some issues at other times as well, but he also did his share of damage to Ivory. Van Noy applied strong pressure on a pass and basically steamrolled the back after putting him on roller skates for several strides, drawing a hold penalty in the process.
-- Kyle Van Noy pressured Bortles in 11-on-11s and barreled through running back Chris Ivory to get into the backfield. Ivory was flagged for a hold as both players tumbled to the turf.

-- Elandon Roberts had a sack in goal line 11-on-11s. Roberts sacked Bortles with the help of a switch with Langi. Nice awareness by Langi to spring his teammate.

-- David Harris had a punishing run stuff in the goal-line period. Malcom Brown had another stuff, and Adam Butler and Deatrich Wise combined for a third. The Jaguars only scored on one of four goal-line runs, and it was from Leonard Fournette.
___

-- Kony Ealy went to the medical tent at one point. It’s unclear what happened, and it didn’t appear that he participated in any team drills afterward.
 
Lots and lots of nickel. They'll likely sacrifice rushing yards and sell out against the pass. At least at first. That's why I think Gillislee will rush for 1,000 yards in 2017.

Yep. That pretty much mimics what I've been reading.

Nickel or Dime or Arizona's 7 DB cover 1 package needs a solid front 3 or 4 that is able to create pressure for four quarters.

They'll have to be creative as well. Steelers say they're going to switch to man but I think that really means they are going to add complexity to their zone schemes. Hybrid zone/man type of thing and not play the same schemes every single week.
 
-- LaAdrian Waddle handled Dante Fowler Jr. in 1-on-1s.

...

-- Patriots pass rush was effective in pretty much every team period.

Hmm, so the desperately tackle-challenged Jacksonville OL was being overrun, while Waddle was impressing in drills against their D? OK Coughlin, make us an offer. ;)
 
I have been reading about cover -2's, how they are used and exploited. Interesting stuff.

1. Fewer teams are using traditional cover 2 because they are , as you have pointed out, susceptible on the outside and middle seams. But moreso today because teams are running complex routes which includes receivers adjusting their routes post snap.

2. However, teams are still using cover -2 for pre snap purposes but use more to confuse either the QB or the receiver post snap. Meaning their goal, as we saw in the SB, is to shift into a variant coverage out of the cover -2 hoping either the QB or the receiver will read it incorrectly leading to an incompletion or a turnover.

And I think the latter is the key to slowing down the Patriots. Disguising coverages, regardless of base, and confusing either the Pats receivers or QB into mistakes.


Here are a few of the links just in case anyone else is curious.

Throwing Against Cover 2 - Inside The Pylon

How Cover 2 Became an Endangered Species

Great stuff Tony.

I guess we are lucky that identifying the defense through pre/post snap reads and motions is Brady's biggest strength. Sometimes they get him (like the Falcons did in the SB) but more often than not he "sees it" and knows what to do.

Honestly, the only way you can slow down this year's Pats offense is a) you have an outstanding front 7 that can consistently put pressure on Brady even when only rushing 4 and b) you can reroute receivers and somewhat flood the middle. But even then there is a good chance that Brady can grind out first downs with dump offs.

It will be a fun season..
 
Great stuff Tony.

I guess we are lucky that identifying the defense through pre/post snap reads and motions is Brady's biggest strength. Sometimes they get him (like the Falcons did in the SB) but more often than not he "sees it" and knows what to do.

Honestly, the only way you can slow down this year's Pats offense is a) you have an outstanding front 7 that can consistently put pressure on Brady even when only rushing 4 and b) you can reroute receivers and somewhat flood the middle. But even then there is a good chance that Brady can grind out first downs with dump offs.

It will be a fun season..

Thanks Luuked.

Sometimes I think Brady's ability to read defenses is either understated or completely overlooked. Which is unfortunate because it's probably the most crucial factor that separates him from the rest..
 
nice answer by Lucien here

"I try not to think about it," Lucien said after Tuesday's joint practice with the Jaguars. "It's kind of consciously always on your mind. I just take it as an opportunity. I get to watch Julian and Brandin every day. I get to learn so much from them. I try not to think about the whole competition thing because that will bring out bad in practice. I try to stay with the positives and it's been working for me so far."
___

from: Devin Lucien on loaded New England Patriots WRs group: 'I try not to think about it'
 
Hmm, so the desperately tackle-challenged Jacksonville OL was being overrun, while Waddle was impressing in drills against their D? OK Coughlin, make us an offer. ;)
Interesting but confusing read as from listening to those covering practice, both Waddle n particularly Fleming have been struggling. Even last night I heard somewhere that should Solder go down there'd b problems
 
Oh, you mean Ealy DOESN'T HATE BB like all the radio idiots say???




i truly wish my long distance sense of Kony's character is wrong . or that this team can have a changing influence for him . and he makes it here . at least for this year . would be huge

EDIT: come to think of it . the health issues he mentions here from minicamp that obviously continue in TC (yesterday went to the medical tent . staying on the sideline at various practices before) are not encouraging either..
 
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nice answer by Lucien here

"I try not to think about it," Lucien said after Tuesday's joint practice with the Jaguars. "It's kind of consciously always on your mind. I just take it as an opportunity. I get to watch Julian and Brandin every day. I get to learn so much from them. I try not to think about the whole competition thing because that will bring out bad in practice. I try to stay with the positives and it's been working for me so far."
___

from: Devin Lucien on loaded New England Patriots WRs group: 'I try not to think about it'

Make some plays in the Preseason Games Devin Lucien and I guarantee BB will make a spot for you Receivers have knack of getting banged up on this Team good dept is very important.
 
Love the talk of other teams suggesting man to man against the Patriots. Still a mismatch if this team is healthy. Gronkowski? Good luck. Cooks, Edelman? Sure thing. Running backs are going to be open for wideopen 10 yard+ dumpoffs. It's not even fair.
 
This Pats Offense reminds me of those 49ers Offenses with Montana they can beat you in so many ways and loaded with YAC guys too. When Defenses have to account for White and Lewis that is just going to be unfair. I would love to see them matched up against Denver and those CB's all in good Health of course.
 
lets add walkthrough attendance here . Burkhead, Lengel new absentees
lots of work for Jacoby Hollister tomorrow

pity not to see Rex, Garcia, JO, D Jones tomorrow

interestingly Mitchell not listed so he might have a snap or two




 
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