2016 Patriots Tougher Than 2007 Patriots?

[mosslost]

I just don't agree re 2007. They didn't win. Yes, the last game counts more. And, truthfully, starting with the (almost as lucky as the Tyree catch) win vs Baltimore, there were plenty of close calls : NYG in game 16, an uninspiring win against a limping SD team in the AFCCG...

In 2003 & 2004, NE was steaming forward from Thanksgiving onward. The 2007 was plowing before Halloween.

The 2007 was excellent. But the D was getting older. I know they held a very flawed NYG O to very few points, but still...

Using the Tyree catch as "the reason" skims over all the offensive problems that plagued NE that game until Moss late. I wish they'd have won. Obviously. But they didn't. Give me 03-04.

03 almost lost the Super Bowl, 07 almost won. It sucks to be the loser in those situations, and the difference is huge. However, the difference between who is better is not determined by the one game win. This is just an inconvenient truth for many on here I have noticed. The 2007 team is better than all but possibly one other Patriot Lombardi winner. It is the only NFL team to be 16- 0. And it is tied as one of only three NFL teams to go 18-1. Metrics analysis ranks it number 1 NFL team all time. No way the 9-7, 2011 Giants were the best team in the NFL just because Welker dropped a pass. This is an inconvenient truth which is unique to football really due to single game elimination. Champ DOES NOT necessarily equal best, in the NFL.

 

[farn]

03 almost lost the Super Bowl, 07 almost won. It sucks to be the loser in those situations, and the difference is huge. However, the difference between who is better is not determined by the one game win. This is just an inconvenient truth for many on here I have noticed. The 2007 team is better than all but possibly one other Patriot Lombardi winner. It is the only NFL team to be 16- 0. And it is tied as one of only three NFL teams to go 18-1. Metrics analysis ranks it number 1 NFL team all time. No way the 9-7, 2011 Giants were the best team in the NFL just because Welker dropped a pass. This is an inconvenient truth which is unique to football really due to single game elimination. Champ DOES NOT necessarily equal best, in the NFL.

I disagree. 03 "almost lost" - but they didn't. They won.

The metrics mean nothing. Winning is everything. The only thing. Championships are the only stat worth keeping. Everything else is pretend. I only want SB championships.

 

[farn]

I almost got the job. I almost won the lottery. I almost passed that test. I almost married that woman. I almost ate that pizza.

 

[mosslost]

I disagree. 03 "almost lost" - but they didn't. They won.

The metrics mean nothing. Winning is everything. The only thing. Championships are the only stat worth keeping. Everything else is pretend. I only want SB championships.

That is simply not correct.

 

[mosslost]

I disagree. 03 "almost lost" - but they didn't. They won.

The metrics mean nothing. Winning is everything. The only thing. Championships are the only stat worth keeping. Everything else is pretend. I only want SB championships.

>>>Everything else is pretend.

..... huh?

 

[farn]

>>>Everything else is pretend.

..... huh?

Today it's all about excuses & what ifs. Everyone gets credit. They lost the SB. For me, that automatically makes 16-0 irrelevant. It's not that great an accomplishment if you can't finish the job.

And, the 2014 had heat on it as well : but they on the big game. They are better.

 

[mosslost]

I disagree. 03 "almost lost" - but they didn't. They won.

The metrics mean nothing. Winning is everything. The only thing. Championships are the only stat worth keeping. Everything else is pretend. I only want SB championships.

So, you actually think,... the 9-7 2011 Giants, were the best team in the NFL that year?

Today it's all about excuses & what ifs. Everyone gets credit. They lost the SB. For me, that automatically makes 16-0 irrelevant. It's not that great an accomplishment if you can't finish the job.

And, the 2014 had heat on it as well : but they on the big game. They are better.

You are just wrong if that is how you view it. Period.

 

[mosslost]

Today it's all about excuses & what ifs. Everyone gets credit. They lost the SB. For me, that automatically makes 16-0 irrelevant. It's not that great an accomplishment if you can't finish the job.

And, the 2014 had heat on it as well : but they on the big game. They are better.

>>For me, that automatically makes 16-0 irrelevant

ridiculous comment. It has been done once.. 51 SB trophies have been given out.. several to not the best the team in that season. (quite a few actually)

 

[mosslost]

Today it's all about excuses & what ifs. Everyone gets credit. They lost the SB. For me, that automatically makes 16-0 irrelevant. It's not that great an accomplishment if you can't finish the job.

And, the 2014 had heat on it as well : but they on the big game. They are better.

2007 would have rolled the 2014 squad. And if they hand the ball off, they lose. ANd my point is made either way.

 

[farn]

You say that I am wrong. I'm ok w that. But you are subjectively deciding that other things matter more than winning the SB.

At the end of the year, the way that D was playing, the NYG beat solid teams to get to the last game & when all was said and done, their team was better than NE and every other team in the league. The DL was ridic strong & they were the winners.

Do we really care that NE was blowing out teams in late summer 2007 when the weather was nice & the pressure was low ? You may. I don't.

I'm just saying the SB win is all I care about. To me : the 14 & 16 teams were tougher & better. There WERE tough players on that 07 team. But let's reflect. Green letting Eli go on the key play was weak. Samuel's non-INT was as well. The OL getting manhandled was weak. Brady scoring so few points - a weak performance.

 

[farn]

>>For me, that automatically makes 16-0 irrelevant

ridiculous comment. It has been done once.. 51 SB trophies have been given out.. several to not the best the team in that season. (quite a few actually)

There are no doubt quite a few things that "only happened once" in the NFL. If they didn't lead to a SB they are irrelevant as well.

 

[mosslost]

There are no doubt quite a few things that "only happened once" in the NFL. If they didn't lead to a SB they are irrelevant as well.

simply wrong and football people know this

 

[farn]

Your arguments :
IF 2007 played 2014
IF Tyree drops the ball
IF Seattle runs

Mine :
Butler caught the INT, Samuel didn't
2014 & 2016 did win the SB
The 07 OL did struggle

 

[farn]

Anyhoo : I do like you, Mosslost. And as much as we disagree here, we at least agree on one fundamental point that cannot be denied - Ray Lewis killed a guy. And that is the olive branch I extend to you and all your millenial friends.

 

[ausbacker]

Also, our '07 O-Line was VERY banged up. Can't protect Brady, there goes the offense. Simple.

Stephen Neal going down early didn't help the cause, especially when one considers the A-Gap havoc the Giants wreaked. I also think McDaniels is a much better playcaller now. He was far too stubborn in his approach to that game.

 

[jmt57]

In a single elimination tournament there are inevitably going to be times when the best team doesn't win.

Winning a championship makes you the best that day. Usually that year's best team is also the champion, but that is not always the case. The process determines a winner but it is not a 100% foolproof way of determining who is best.

 

[supafly]

Luck plays a huge part, as well. Sometimes you get it (2016), and sometimes you don't (2007). Obviously, there are other factors in play, but we certainly needed some serious luck on our side in this past SB. That goes for most SB winning teams.

 

[RodRustsGhost]

I would say the 2016 team was better balanced in general and so could better handle injuries as they came up and also could more easily adjust their entire style of game when they ran into a wall in another style.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I don't really care if we were 16-0 or 18-0. It was an amazing and historic team, but they lost. Maybe Tom Brady led his team to a touchdown late in the 4th, but so did Eli. Were the 2016 Patriots better than the 2007 Patriots? Maybe. Maybe not. Were they more mentally tough? Yes. Heck, Tom Brady was somewhat ****y back then during the 07 season.

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

Give me Edelman and Amendola in a clutch situation over Moss and Welker in any post-season game....