* 2012 Draft Offensive Line *

[Off The Grid]

2nd in a Series

Good Evening, Ladies and Gents...

I humbly and quietly offer this Thread ~ the 2nd of many, as I'll be circumnavigating the entire Roster ~ to my Fellow Patriots Fans ~ KoolAid Soaked Homers + Bile Soaked Haters, alike!! ~ as a Gathering Place ~ a common reference ~ for Offensve Line Prospects.

***

I should stress the point that I'm focusing on guys that have been profiled by NFL Draft Scout and National FootBall Post. I believe that both Sites get the "All 22" Film ~ an enormous advantage in evaluation, I think ~ and, as such, have the Opportunity to offer us insight that we're not privy to.

Furthermore, they've got the time and the resources to extensively study this "All 22" Game Tape and confer with other professionals.

All my positions are ultimately my own, obviously, but I consider it wise, indeed, to confer with Professionals who have the time and the access to resources that I do not, and allow them to do the heavy lifting.

***

Peter Konz of Wisconsin ~ 6.5/315

The picture that I'm getting on Peter Konz is that he has superior Launch Velocity, exceptional Lateral Agility, and excellent Flanking Speed ~ Range ~ on Sweeps. Clearly, he commands outstanding athleticism, which is especially intriguing when considering that he's a 6.5/315 BEAST.

One consistent concern, however, despite solid grades on Anchoring Strength in the Pass Game, is his Driving Power against top level Defensive Tackles in the Run Game. He does not get very good grades, there. I can't help but wonder if that is a function of Leverage, and if he's actually an inch too tall for the optimum height to play Center at an elite level in the NFL.

Indeed, I'd go so far as to speculate that he could be a guy who'd make a good Center...but an All Pro O Guard.

In either case, though: an excellent prospect.

Stud!!

***

Ben Jones of Georgia ~ 6.3/316

I consider Launch Velocity ~ how quickly a guy busts out of the blocks ~ to be an extremely vital attribute in a Center, and Ben Jones gets absolutely universal praise in that regard. It speaks not only to the obvious ~ the impending battle with the enemy Defensive Tackle ~ but also, I believe, to the prospect's Processing Speed ~ Reading and Reacting Rapidity ~ which is vital at all positions, but, along the O Line, most important to the Center.

He doesn't seem to have the exceptional Core Strength to deliver a particularly powerfull Drive in the Power Running Game, but brings superior Lateral Agility ~ and Processing Speed ~ to the Zone Running Game, though his Flanking Speed ~ Range ~ is limited, downfield.

In the Passing Game, he gets generally good grades for his Anchoring Strength.

His Technique seems to have flaws ~ Lunging and Hand Placement.

Even so, this a tough, tenacious, nasty, durable, battle-hardened Leader who grades out well in Processing Speed, Launch Velocity, and general, all around Viciousness.

He's got the perfect Frame for the job, and he's a Gym Rat who I believe, with the right coaching and conditioning, could become something special.

Stud!!

***

Mike Brewster of Ohio State ~ 6.4/304

While Mike Brewster draws rave reviews neither for his Anchoring Strength in the Pass Game nor his Driving Power in the Run Game, he nevertheless draws praise in both aspects of the game for his ability to consistently sustain Leverage.

Considering that he's probably about an inch taller than the optimum height for a Center, that speaks quite loudly to a powerfull, developed Core, one that can be expected to sustain him for many years at a superior level of play.

He doesn't get particularly remarkable grades for Lateral Agility, less so for Range: In short, the farther away he gets from home, the less effective he is. However, he is by no means a slug.

Furthermore, he gets accolades for his Processing Speed and his Diagnostic Acuity ~ reading, recognizing, and rapidly reacting ~ which are attributes utterly vital to the success of prospective Center, though they be often overlooked.

All in all, he looks to be a very good Center, health granted, for a good long time.

Stud!!

***

Dave Molk of Michigan ~ 6.2/288

Dave Molk reminds me of FSU's Rod Hudson, from last year's Draft ~ a smaller Center ~ no way in HELL Hudson would've held up at O Guard, as I predicted before the Draft!! ~ but one with such exceptional Launch Velocity, Lateral Agility, and Range that he demanded a second look.

But there's no way in HELL that I believe he stands up in a Power Scheme, despite National FootBall Post's venerable Wes Bunting's recent comments.

Furthermore, Mister Bunting flags him for limited Fluidity and Arm Length, the latter of which could be fatal, when combined with his already diminutive stature, and both of which, compounded, render him a potential Liability when trying to Anchor in the Passing Game.

All in all, there's something to work with, here, exclusively in a Zone Scheme, but I'd have to call him a Project.

Project!!

***

Bill Vlachos of Alabama ~ 6.1/294

Bill Vlachos gets consistently good grades for Launch Velocity, Processing Speed, and Diagnostic Acuity, which certainly gets my attention.

However, he combines his relatively small stature with what I consider to be a fatal lack of Core Strength.

This leaves him short on Anchoring Strength and Driving Power, which, for my money, absolutely precludes his ever becoming a legitimate starter at the Pro level.

Even so, he commands enough positive traits ~ including sufficient Lateral Agility ~ to have a fighting chance at carving out a roster spot as a Reserve.

Reserve!!

***

Phil Blake of Baylor ~ 6.2/320

Let's see...

Baylor is producing an 26 year old Offensive Lineman who ~ despite his age ~ is still learning the job, but shows glimpses of impressive upside...

Can you say "Deja Vu"??

Phil Blake grades fair to middling in most attributes ~ mixed reviews on Core Strength, Anchoring Strength, Driving Power, Lateral Agility, and Launch Velocity.

He doesn't get particularly kind words words when it comes to Range.

Mixed reviews on Work Ethic and Attitude.

Praise on his ShotGun Snapping.

Unlike Danny Watkins, Phil Blake may be The Most Average Offensive Lineman in the Draft.

Reserve!!


***

Notes

1 ~ The more I see of Ben Jones on Tape ~ and the more my perception of the critical importance of Leverage evolves ~ the more intrigued I am by this fellow.

2 ~ Both Mike Brewster and Peter Konz intrigue, but the more I consider their height, the less inclined I am to draft either of them for Center, particularly Konz.

 

[NePatriots]

Our main knock on Konz is his durability. Dislocated his ankle this week - might not declare for the draft.

 

[Off The Grid]

Our main knock on Konz is his durability. Dislocated his ankle this week - might not declare for the draft.

Yeah, I'd be STUNNED of Konz declared, this year.

The Badger Grizzlies have a RICH recent history of playing out the string.

But he's on the radar, so of course we have to assess'm.

 

[Snake Eyes]

2nd in a Series


1 ~ The more I see of Ben Jones on Tape ~ and the more my perception of the critical importance of Leverage evolves ~ the more intrigued I am by this fellow.

2 ~ Both Mike Brewster and Peter Konz intrigue, but the more I consider their height, the less inclined I am to draft either of them for Center, particularly Konz.

One thing taller people suffer from is habit of trying to generate power by 1) leaning over and 2) pushing off of their back foot, this actually works very well for the most part but as soon as you start going up against guys with some skill who can really pull from the front foot and also push to empty spots on the opponent as opposed to where they have a good link to their base of support, it all goes to hell.

Fortunately this is something that can be corrected with good technique/strength training.

One comforting thought I found was in this video by Doug Flutie on throwing mechanics, he talks about how TFB was able to diagnose and break down the mechanics Flutie used when throwing, and that Flutie himself didnt realize the specifics of what he was doing.

This tells me that TFB himself has a very good eye for body movement and technique, which is another potential layer of coaching/teaching available to our O-linemen.

Sportskool

 

[Daigle]

Great stuff. Its Ben Jones then that we want. Have to go watch some tape on him.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Great stuff. Its Ben Jones then that we want. Have to go watch some tape on him.

Would have loved to see him against Bama's defensive front(Josh Chapman) in the SEC Championship game. All Georgia has to do is beat Kentucky I believe. LSU has a quicker set of dt's, but they usually don't line up on the nose. Will get a good feel for his feet and to see how he gets to 2nd level. Just won't be challenged nose to nose. Senior Bowl will be a good place to watch him too.

Good matchup for Brewster this week. Goes against PSU dt's. Devon Still and they have a pretty good junior Jordan Hill. Some active lb's to get after too. PSU will occasionally line the dt's over the C. Doubt if they do with Brewster though.

 

[Daigle]

With the NFL becoming moore passoriented, one cant stop wondering if the focus on C:s will shift towards more passprotection guys also at C ?

 

[Off The Grid]

With the NFL becoming moore pass oriented, one cant stop wondering if the focus on C:s will shift towards more pass protection guys also at C ?

Very good point.

I tend to think you're right, though I would personally spend a TON of Draft Capital to get a guy who was highly adept at both.

For my money, the Center is the 3rd most important position on the entire 53 man roster.

I rarely advocate Trading Up, but I would've done whatever was required to obtain the services of The Marquise De Pouncey, 2 years ago.

 

[Wilfork#75]

OTG, I posted this in another thread but I was wondering what your thoughts were on possibly converting Barrett Jones to C. He's been great this year at Alabama primarily as a LT, but has also seen some time at OG and C. He's got good size, although he may be a little tall for your likeing. The reason I think he may be an ideal candidate is because he is intelligent, experience and is really quick out of his stance which is extremely important for a C. Playing LT in the SEC under Saban, you know he is well coached and well tested and I think he could be an ideal day 2 pick if he declares. If he does declare this year I think his potential is right up there with Konz and Brewster, possibly even higher.

Barrett Jones

(I know you don't like to pimp your site but I don't mind )

 

[Snake Eyes]

OTG, I posted this in another thread but I was wondering what your thoughts were on possibly converting Barrett Jones to C. He's been great this year at Alabama primarily as a LT, but has also seen some time at OG and C. He's got good size, although he may be a little tall for your likeing. The reason I think he may be an ideal candidate is because he is intelligent, experience and is really quick out of his stance which is extremely important for a C. Playing LT in the SEC under Saban, you know he is well coached and well tested and I think he could be an ideal day 2 pick if he declares. If he does declare this year I think his potential is right up there with Konz and Brewster, possibly even higher.

Barrett Jones

(I know you don't like to pimp your site but I don't mind )

While I cannot speak for Grid I absolutely LOVE the idea of a conversion project like that, as it's a magnificent opportunity to get some fantastic value in the draft.

The plain truth is that Jones will probably not be thought of very highly at LT because of his height, it's just the way it is. This drops his stock, but if he has the goods for Center we might be able to pick up some fantastic raw material for cheap and use precious draft capital elsewhere. It all depends where we can pick him up, depending on how needy a team is for O-line talent they might decide to pull the trigger on him anyway.

I saw one mock that had him going in the mid-1st round, which is too gourmet for my taste, projects should have an appropriate price for a project. I think "undersized" LTs are the perfect O-line projects, which other LTs could potentially have the goods to be an elite Center but who wouldn't be rated highly as a NFL LT prospect?

 

[Daigle]

Very good point.

I tend to think you're right, though I would personally spend a TON of Draft Capital to get a guy who was highly adept at both.

For my money, the Center is the 3rd most important position on the entire 53 man roster.

I rarely advocate Trading Up, but I would've done whatever was required to obtain the services of The Marquise De Pouncey, 2 years ago.

I concur. The running game still is required to open up a defense for pass. Although my point was, since its difficult to find guys doing both well, more that we might see a change in the amount of guys drafted being being passprotectors than runblockers. Not sure about the numbers know but we could see a change in the coming drafts maybe ?

 

[Daigle]

While I cannot speak for Grid I absolutely LOVE the idea of a conversion project like that, as it's a magnificent opportunity to get some fantastic value in the draft.

The plain truth is that Jones will probably not be thought of very highly at LT because of his height, it's just the way it is. This drops his stock, but if he has the goods for Center we might be able to pick up some fantastic raw material for cheap and use precious draft capital elsewhere. It all depends where we can pick him up, depending on how needy a team is for O-line talent they might decide to pull the trigger on him anyway.

I saw one mock that had him going in the mid-1st round, which is too gourmet for my taste, projects should have an appropriate price for a project. I think "undersized" LTs are the perfect O-line projects, which other LTs could potentially have the goods to be an elite Center but who wouldn't be rated highly as a NFL LT prospect?

Like this idea. Seems resonable and like you say, some good value. Btw, how tall is this guy really ?

 

[Off The Grid]

OTG, I posted this in another thread but I was wondering what your thoughts were on possibly converting Barrett Jones to C. He's been great this year at Alabama primarily as a LT, but has also seen some time at OG and C. He's got good size, although he may be a little tall for your likeing. The reason I think he may be an ideal candidate is because he is intelligent, experience and is really quick out of his stance which is extremely important for a C. Playing LT in the SEC under Saban, you know he is well coached and well tested and I think he could be an ideal day 2 pick if he declares. If he does declare this year I think his potential is right up there with Konz and Brewster, possibly even higher.

Barrett Jones

(I know you don't like to pimp your site but I don't mind )

While I cannot speak for Grid I absolutely LOVE the idea of a conversion project like that, as it's a magnificent opportunity to get some fantastic value in the draft.

The plain truth is that Jones will probably not be thought of very highly at LT because of his height, it's just the way it is. This drops his stock, but if he has the goods for Center we might be able to pick up some fantastic raw material for cheap and use precious draft capital elsewhere. It all depends where we can pick him up, depending on how needy a team is for O-line talent they might decide to pull the trigger on him anyway.

I saw one mock that had him going in the mid-1st round, which is too gourmet for my taste, projects should have an appropriate price for a project. I think "undersized" LTs are the perfect O-line projects, which other LTs could potentially have the goods to be an elite Center but who wouldn't be rated highly as a NFL LT prospect?

Thanks for Pimping the Site, Brother Wilfork!!

Great EYE on Barret Jones!! :rocker:

I've been trying to dredge up more on this kid, but from what little I have, I LOVE him.

Yes, indeed, 6.4 IS an inch higher than my Optimum for a Center, but while I would make allowances for a FREAK like the Jeff "The Runt" Saturday ~ 6.2 ~ I would ALIKE make allowance for a Freak at the OTHER end of the Spectrum: No less than The Marquis, Himself, is 6.5.

And 6.4 is fine, in any case, if he's got Core Strength. Let's see...

~ Terrific Launch Velocity
~ Exceptional Processing Speed
~ Outstanding Diagnostic Acuity

Those are 3 CRITICAL attributes when looking at Centers, Brother Wilfork!!

You are ON To something, here!!

***

But I Need More Input, Stephanie.

Mocking and Great Blue diverge on their opinions of his Arm Length, an attribute I consider critical.

I don't know if they've got access to "22" Tape, as NFP does, and as I presume Draft Scout does.

If he declares, both Sites should write him up, and we should get quality Tape on him, as well.

***

"Too Gourmet" Hah!! LOVE it!!

He's well thought of as an O Guard, Brother Snake, so I wouldn't expect him to get beyond the 2nd Round, should he declare...

I'll have more, later: I'm aiming to write up about 6 or 7 O Guards, tonight, and launch them in the morning. Right now, I soon need to Sleep to Dream...

 

[sbpatfan]

I like your site OTG, good work.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Thanks for Pimping the Site, Brother Wilfork!!

Great EYE on Barret Jones!! :rocker:

I've been trying to dredge up more on this kid, but from what little I have, I LOVE him.

Yes, indeed, 6.4 IS an inch higher than my Optimum for a Center, but while I would make allowances for a FREAK like the Jeff "The Runt" Saturday ~ 6.2 ~ I would ALIKE make allowance for a Freak at the OTHER end of the Spectrum: No less than The Marquis, Himself, is 6.5.

And 6.4 is fine, in any case, if he's got Core Strength. Let's see...

~ Terrific Launch Velocity
~ Exceptional Processing Speed
~ Outstanding Diagnostic Acuity

Those are 3 CRITICAL attributes when looking at Centers, Brother Wilfork!!

You are ON To something, here!!

***

But I Need More Input, Stephanie.

Mocking and Great Blue diverge on their opinions of his Arm Length, an attribute I consider critical.

I don't know if they've got access to "22" Tape, as NFP does, and as I presume Draft Scout does.

If he declares, both Sites should write him up, and we should get quality Tape on him, as well.

***

"Too Gourmet" Hah!! LOVE it!!

He's well thought of as an O Guard, Brother Snake, so I wouldn't expect him to get beyond the 2nd Round, should he declare...

I'll have more, later: I'm aiming to write up about 6 or 7 O Guards, tonight, and launch them in the morning. Right now, I soon need to Sleep to Dream...

Grid, magnificent work on the website, I was surprised how thorough it was but I shouldnt have been

Are there any other undersized tackles you know of that meet your core Center competencies?

 

[Off The Grid]

I like your site OTG, good work.

Awesome Possum!! Thanks, Bro.

 

[Off The Grid]

I concur. The running game still is required to open up a defense for pass. Although my point was, since its difficult to find guys doing both well, more that we might see a change in the amount of guys drafted being being passprotectors than runblockers. Not sure about the numbers know but we could see a change in the coming drafts maybe ?

Absolutely. I think your premise is right on, Sir.

 

[Off The Grid]

One thing taller people suffer from is habit of trying to generate power by 1) leaning over and 2) pushing off of their back foot, this actually works very well for the most part but as soon as you start going up against guys with some skill who can really pull from the front foot and also push to empty spots on the opponent as opposed to where they have a good link to their base of support, it all goes to hell.

Fortunately this is something that can be corrected with good technique/strength training.

One comforting thought I found was in this video by Doug Flutie on throwing mechanics, he talks about how TFB was able to diagnose and break down the mechanics Flutie used when throwing, and that Flutie himself didnt realize the specifics of what he was doing.

This tells me that TFB himself has a very good eye for body movement and technique, which is another potential layer of coaching/teaching available to our O-linemen.

Sportskool

That's some eye-opening stuff, Brother Snake!! Great Find!! :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

OTG, I posted this in another thread but I was wondering what your thoughts were on possibly converting Barrett Jones to C. He's been great this year at Alabama primarily as a LT, but has also seen some time at OG and C. He's got good size, although he may be a little tall for your likeing. The reason I think he may be an ideal candidate is because he is intelligent, experience and is really quick out of his stance which is extremely important for a C. Playing LT in the SEC under Saban, you know he is well coached and well tested and I think he could be an ideal day 2 pick if he declares. If he does declare this year I think his potential is right up there with Konz and Brewster, possibly even higher.

Barrett Jones

(I know you don't like to pimp your site but I don't mind )

While I cannot speak for Grid I absolutely LOVE the idea of a conversion project like that, as it's a magnificent opportunity to get some fantastic value in the draft.

The plain truth is that Jones will probably not be thought of very highly at LT because of his height, it's just the way it is. This drops his stock, but if he has the goods for Center we might be able to pick up some fantastic raw material for cheap and use precious draft capital elsewhere. It all depends where we can pick him up, depending on how needy a team is for O-line talent they might decide to pull the trigger on him anyway.

I saw one mock that had him going in the mid-1st round, which is too gourmet for my taste, projects should have an appropriate price for a project. I think "undersized" LTs are the perfect O-line projects, which other LTs could potentially have the goods to be an elite Center but who wouldn't be rated highly as a NFL LT prospect?

Thanks for Pimping the Site, Brother Wilfork!!

Great EYE on Barret Jones!! :rocker:

I've been trying to dredge up more on this kid, but from what little I have, I LOVE him.

Yes, indeed, 6.4 IS an inch higher than my Optimum for a Center, but while I would make allowances for a FREAK like the Jeff "The Runt" Saturday ~ 6.2 ~ I would ALIKE make allowance for a Freak at the OTHER end of the Spectrum: No less than The Marquis, Himself, is 6.5.

And 6.4 is fine, in any case, if he's got Core Strength. Let's see...

~ Terrific Launch Velocity
~ Exceptional Processing Speed
~ Outstanding Diagnostic Acuity

Those are 3 CRITICAL attributes when looking at Centers, Brother Wilfork!!

You are ON To something, here!!

***

But I Need More Input, Stephanie.

Mocking and Great Blue diverge on their opinions of his Arm Length, an attribute I consider critical.

I don't know if they've got access to "22" Tape, as NFP does, and as I presume Draft Scout does.

If he declares, both Sites should write him up, and we should get quality Tape on him, as well.

***

"Too Gourmet" Hah!! LOVE it!!

He's well thought of as an O Guard, Brother Snake, so I wouldn't expect him to get beyond the 2nd Round, should he declare...

I'll have more, later: I'm aiming to write up about 6 or 7 O Guards, tonight, and launch them in the morning. Right now, I soon need to Sleep to Dream...

Grid, magnificent work on the website, I was surprised how thorough it was but I shouldnt have been

Are there any other undersized tackles you know of that meet your core Center competencies?

Thank ye KINDLY, Brother Snake!!

***

Nothing off the top of my head: Brother Wilfork's find, there, being the only one so far.

Mind you: I haven't looked with that in mind, yet.

Needless to say: I would expect them to be rare.

But on the other hand, I'm only now starting to delve really deeply, now that the college season's in its stretch run and things are beginning to crystallize.

And I'll be hitting the O Tackles this very weekend, after I knock out the O Guards.

I can tell you that there are an handfull of intriguing OT > OG Convertibles that intrigue me, who I'll take a look at in that regard, if you like...

 

[Snake Eyes]

Thank ye KINDLY, Brother Snake!!

***

Nothing off the top of my head: Brother Wilfork's find, there, being the only one so far.

Mind you: I haven't looked with that in mind, yet.

Needless to say: I would expect them to be rare.

But on the other hand, I'm only now starting to delve really deeply, now that the college season's in its stretch run and things are beginning to crystallize.

And I'll be hitting the O Tackles this very weekend, after I knock out the O Guards.

I can tell you that there are an handfull of intriguing OT > OG Convertibles that intrigue me, who I'll take a look at in that regard, if you like...

Sounds good, I was looking through a bunch of sites and the shortest guy I could find was 6'4. I'd be more than cool with some runt OT from Hillsdale college (Jared "Grizzly" Veldheer's Alma Mater) if he has the athleticism and brain power for the position. Since Connolly is performing well and also has lethal kick returning ability to boot, I doubt BB spends a relatively high pick at Center so it's off to projecting projects