* 2012 Draft Offensive Line *

[Off The Grid]

Offensive Guards!!

***

Reminder: I should stress the point that I'm focusing on guys that have been profiled by NFL Draft Scout and National FootBall Post. I believe that both Sites get the "All 22" Film ~ an enormous advantage in evaluation, I think ~ and, as such, have the Opportunity to offer us insight that we're not privy to.

Furthermore, they've got the time and the resources to extensively study this "All 22" Game Tape and confer with other professionals.

All my positions are ultimately my own, obviously, but I consider it wise, indeed, to confer with Professionals who have the time and the access to resources that I do not, and allow them to do the heavy lifting.

***

Dave DeCastro of Stanford ~ 6.5/312

No need to mince words, here: Dave DeCastro is a phenomenal Prospect.

Processing Speed ~ Excellent.

Diagnostic Acuity ~ Tremendous.

Launch Velocity ~ Outstanding.

Lateral Agility ~ Incredible.

His Core Strength is very good, though he can be beat on occasion.

His Range is superior, though not breathtaking.

He certainly matches up better as a Blaster than as a Mauler, and is better suited for a Zone Blocking Scheme.

But he simply has no weaknesses ~ only differing levels of strengths ~ and gets accolades for exceptional Work Ethic, Intelligence, and Leadership.

He is the best O Guard Prospect in years.

Super Beast!!

***

Cordy Glenn of Georgia ~ 6.5/350

Cordy Glenn gets mixed reviews on Core Strength. It seems that he possesses intrinsically superior Driving Power for the Passing Game and Anchoring Strength for the Running Game, but that these are both often compromised by excessive weight around the midsection. If this continues to be a problem going forward, his inability to consistently bend at the knees is simply going to be fatal at the next level.

Furthermore, I have grave concerns about his Launch Velocity and his Processing Speed, neither of which draw much praise, and both of which are vital for success in the NFL.

On the other side of the Ledger, he brings remarkable Lateral Agility for a man of his mass.

Cordy Glenn has All Pro potential...But I am deeply concerned about his weight problems, and their potentially destructive impact on his career. And I'm troubled, as well, by dubious comments about the other attributes that I consider essential. Given the whole package, I'd consider him a good risk on Day 3, but his Market Value currently sits in the 1st or 2nd Round.

OverRated!!

***

Kelechi Osemele of Iowa State ~ 6.5/345

Kelechi Osemele gets mixed reviews on his Driving Power in the Run Game, though good ones on his Anchoring Strength in the Pass Game. There seems to be a theme of playing too high and bending at the waist, which speaks to dubious Core Strength. On that, there is general consensus...and that is very troubling to me.

He also receives contrasting reports on his Lateral Agility, and even his attitude.

I get a picture, all in all, of a physically gifted Beast who hasn't shown much in the way of sustained focus or dedication. The Frame, Strength, and Agility are there for a potential All Pro future. But this is a risky Pick, based on his body of work, and thus, in my mind, does not warrant the Day 1 Market Value he currently commands.

OverRated!!

***

Luke Nix of PittsBurgh ~ 6.5/310

I've got my doubts about Luke Nix.

The reports on his Launch Velocity are divergent, which speaks to inconsistency.

He gets generally good reviews on his Lateral Agility, but there are repeatedly expressed concerns about his Fluidity on the move. "Stiff" comes up more than once, as a descriptor.

There are multiple references to issues with stiffness and with bending at the waist: clearly he needs work on his Core Strength, as well as his Fluidity.

Most worrisome, though, are indications that he needs to improve his Diagnostic Acuity.

I get a picture of a Prospect with some skill, but with a multitude of deficiencies and concerns. Given that, I'm inclined to put a Day 3 tag on him, and yet he currently rates a 2nd or 3rd Round Market Value.

OverRated!!

***

Kevin Zeitler of Wisconsin ~ 6.4/320

Kevin Zeitler doesn't have the best or most consistent Launch Velocity in the world, and that concerns me.

It's a point I harp on because when you get to the next level, that 1/8th of a second can absolutely kill you.

And slow Launch Velocity also hints at slow Processing Speed, which can be fatal.

He grades out as at least good or average in all other aspects, however.

The Core Strength is definitely there, and that should go a long way towards obviating his deficient Launch Velocity. He's particularly impressive in the Running Game. There are O Guards who're generally rated far higher than Zeitler whose Core Strength ~ or at their effective Core Strength, as they deal with their girth ~ isn't at his level. He's dedicated himself to doing the work, and has earned a far better chance at a long, productive career.

Good marks on Lateral Agility and Range, as well.

All in all, my thinking is that his lack of Launch Velocity and Processing Speed will prove occasionally disastrous against the best competition. He's not elite.

But even the elite are occasionally beat, and Zeitler's Game, taken as an whole, is one that should be consistently productive. He gets good grades for Work Ethic and Diagnostic Acuity, and is the kind of guy teammates can trust. His Market Value is the 3rd or 4th Round, and that seems about right, to me.

Solid Soldier!!

***

Senio Kelemete of Washington ~ 6.3/300

Well, Senio Kelemete is raw as hell, let there be no doubt.

He just converted to the O Line from the D Line in 2009.

He just converted from O Guard to O Tackle in 2010.

And there's no way in HELL his 6.3 ass is remaining at O Tackle in the NFL, so he'll have to switch back.

His Technique is a work in progress.

But he commands exceptional Launch Velocity.

And he commands outstanding Core Strength, and can win in the Run Game and the Pass Game.

His Lateral Agility is remarkable, and his Range is excellent.

In short, he's a 5 Tool Player, and one who grades tremendously well in Processing Speed, Diagnostic Acuity, and, particularly, in Work Ethic and Passion.

We're talking serious All Pro potential, here, and with the Work Ethic to make that happen.

But because he's still a work in progress, his current Market Value is the 3rd or 4th Round.

Sleeper Stud!!

***

Amini Silatolu of MidWestern ~ 6.3/324

Amini Silatolu ~ deeply burried in obscure MidWestern State ~ commands an exhilarating combination of Core Strength, Lateral Agility, and Ferocity.

He's raw as hell, make no mistake.

And there'll be questions about his Processing Speed, Diagnostic Acuity, and Level of Competition, of course.

I ain't making no promises.

But the potential of this kid excites me.

And the Passion is there...to make something of his considerable though raw talents.

Yet, because of his obscure resume his current Market Value is ~ understandably so ~ about the 4th or 5th Round.

Sleeper Stud!!

***

Notes

1 ~ I hope to GOD y'all enjoy reading these at LEAST 1 HUNDREDTH as much as I love producing them!!

2 ~ As you can see, there are a few guys ~ the last two, in particular ~ that I think highly of, as Developmental Depth.

3 ~ I should also note that there are a few other guys ~ Jaymes Brooks, the HIDEOUS Joe Looney, and, particularly, Chance "War Machine" WarMack, who intrigue me, but of whom I can not as yet justify writing up Reports, on such wafer-thin Data as I currently possess.

4 ~ There are also a number of potential O Tackle -> O Guard Convertibles, as previously mentioned, that warrant mention, and will, in my next Chapter.

5 ~ Above and Beyond all: I cannot overstate how SEISMIC I believe Dave DeCastro's potential impact to be, NOR how much of a Priority I would consider him to be, were I Running Things...as I aspire, some day, to do.

 

[Off The Grid]

Grid, magnificent work on the website, I was surprised how thorough it was but I shouldnt have been

Are there any other undersized tackles you know of that meet your core Center competencies?

Thank ye KINDLY, Brother Snake!!

***

Nothing off the top of my head: Brother Wilfork's find, there, being the only one so far.

Mind you: I haven't looked with that in mind, yet.

Needless to say: I would expect them to be rare.

But on the other hand, I'm only now starting to delve really deeply, now that the college season's in its stretch run and things are beginning to crystallize.

And I'll be hitting the O Tackles this very weekend, after I knock out the O Guards.

I can tell you that there are an handfull of intriguing OT > OG Convertibles that intrigue me, who I'll take a look at in that regard, if you like...

Sounds good, I was looking through a bunch of sites and the shortest guy I could find was 6'4. I'd be more than cool with some runt OT from Hillsdale college (Jared "Grizzly" Veldheer's Alma Mater) if he has the athleticism and brain power for the position. Since Connolly is performing well and also has lethal kick returning ability to boot, I doubt BB spends a relatively high pick at Center so it's off to projecting projects

As mentioned in my new post, I lean heavily on Central BroadCasting to "PreSort" the positions ~ to convert the more obvious Convertibles to their NFL position...And they have indeed done so with Brothers Kelemete and Silatolu, PreSorting them to O Guard, from their college positions of O Tackle.

And, therein, we have two guys who actually measure out at 6.3.

And Kelemete, in particular, might be right down your alley: A Mid Rounder O Tackle ~ currently ~ who brings the requisite Launch Velocity, Processing Speed, and Core Strength to potentially play the Pivot at an high level.

MIND you: That's YOUR bag.

ME, I don't want anything less than ALL PRO at the Pivot.

Kelemete strikes me as a wonderfull Project...at his current Market Value.

But I'm inclined to spend heavily on O Center, if I believe a Difference Maker is In Play.

Whether or not that's the case remains to be seen.

Ultimately, though, it's not beyond the scope of reason that Kelemete may ultimately convert to Center...and prove to be the best one in this Draft Class!!

 

[Snake Eyes]

And Kelemete, in particular, might be right down your alley: A Mid Rounder O Tackle ~ currently ~ who brings the requisite Launch Velocity, Processing Speed, and Core Strength to potentially play the Pivot at an high level.

MIND you: That's YOUR bag.

ME, I don't want anything less than ALL PRO at the Pivot.

Kelemete strikes me as a wonderfull Project...at his current Market Value.

But I'm inclined to spend heavily on O Center, if I believe a Difference Maker is In Play

You and I both would spend a lot to get an elite Center, I often dream of traveling back in time and telling BB to draft Mangold, skipping over that bum Maroney, and then grabbing Greg Jennings and MJD in the 2nd round.

As far as whether or not the guy’s an all pro, I think it’s very important to look at why: if Klemente is a newly converted D-lineman I wouldn’t expect him to perform at a very high level in such a short time, which is fine if we’re talking about late round projects, if we’re going to spend a lot in the early rounds then the guy SHOULD be an absolute STUD and he should be ready to contribute very soon.

With conversion projects like this I’m in agreement with you, it's ok for a player not being an all-pro at the position they did play so long as they have the goods for the position he will play. I think Joe Webb is a fine example here, I’d LOVE to develop him as a WR for TFB to throw to, even though he was a QB in college his athleticism is so off the charts I probably couldn’t resist taking a shot on him in the late rounds, same with Michael Jasper. Hell, the Pats took Steven Neal who had 0 experience as an O-lineman but who was a damn good wrestler in college. The costs are low, the odds of success are MUCH better than Powerball, and it’ll likely be more interesting than being a guest on Jersey Shore.

Although it’s getting a bit freaky I’d love to see the Pats scout and recruit athletes in other sports, even in other countries! I’m sure there’s plenty of talent in the world of Rugby, soccer, world’s strongest man, sumo, etc.

I don’t know if you’ve seen this but it makes me giddy when I think about how he’d be as a tight end.

The Best of Jonah Lomu MUST SEE!! (Rare Tries) Part 1 - YouTube

The NFL probably pays a LOT better than what these guys make now, so let the Patriots lead the way in being innovative and daring, leading us to glory the whole time!

Also, great find with these guys:rocker: I'm going to have to dig up some footage on them.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Offensive Guards!!

***
***

Senio Kelemete of Washington ~ 6.3/300

Well, Senio Kelemete is raw as hell, let there be no doubt.

He just converted to the O Line from the D Line in 2009.

He just converted from O Guard to O Tackle in 2010.

And there's no way in HELL his 6.3 ass is remaining at O Tackle in the NFL, so he'll have to switch back.

His Technique is a work in progress.

But he commands exceptional Launch Velocity.

And he commands outstanding Core Strength, and can win in the Run Game and the Pass Game.

His Lateral Agility is remarkable, and his Range is excellent.

In short, he's a 5 Tool Player, and one who grades tremendously well in Processing Speed, Diagnostic Acuity, and, particularly, in Work Ethic and Passion.

We're talking serious All Pro potential, here, and with the Work Ethic to make that happen.

But because he's still a work in progress, his current Market Value is the 3rd or 4th Round.

Senio Kelemete Teaches Colorado a Lesson - YouTube

So far I like what I see

 

[patfanken]

kudos OTG, but I offer the following on the issue of Drafting OLmen in next years Draft.

DON'T DO IT!

Think about our currents situation as it looks on the OL.

Tackle

Light, Volmer, Solder - Three legit starters at the top half of the league in ability. With Solder having unlimited potential

Guard -

Waters, Mankins Cannon and Connolly- Waters has been a big surprise. I knew he was once on of the best in the league. I had no idea that he still was playing at such a high level, and there is no reason to believe he can't for another year. We know about Mankins, Cannon has a huge, and Connolly isn't going to hurt you if he has to play

Center - Connelly has proven to be an upgrade in the passing game over Koppen, while Koppen was better in the run game. The bottom line is that the Pats currently have 2 very good C's on the roster. Do we need another

The issue is that going into next season the Pats will have 8 offensive linemen who none of us would have any issue seeing them start. It will be the deepest and most talented group in the BB era. I don't see how drafting an offensive lineman with one of the first 5 picks will improve the team more than using the pick on the defensive side of the ball

Before this season drafting the C of the future in this year's draft was a no brainer. However Connolly's stellar performance along with Koppen's consistent competence makes the need mute....at least for next season.....IMHO

This will be my mantra for next season's off season wish list. (get used to it, I will be repeating it often)

1. The best FA safety available - one over 210 and 6' tall
2. The best safety available with our first pick
3. The best big CB available with our 2nd pick - preferably over 6'
4. A young developmental outside pass rushing threat (either DE or OLB) with our 2nd pick to have in place with Cunningham for the 2013 season when Carter and Anderson Jump the shark

If we can to at least THAT much I would be very encouraged that we are well on the way to building a top 10 defense, not only in points allowed, but in yardage as well

Luxuries but not necessities to get in the draft of FA would be:

1. A field stretching WR, preferably over 6'2 from either FA or in the draft
2. a coverage ILB to replace Guyton
3. A DL replacement for Mike Wright

We don't need any OLmen. We don't need any more RBs. We don't need to invest heavily in TE's except to add a "blocking TE in the Smith or Yeatman mold, which can be had in FA or very late in the draft. We don't need to add a QB. I think we are OK on the DL as long as we see continued development from Brace, Pryor, Love, and Deadrick,

This is still going to be a pass happy league. Building a strong secondary is key to stemming the tide. The Pats need to get bigger and more skillful in the secondary. I have great hopes for Dowling next season. I still like McCourty very much. Arrington is a great role player, and the best of the nameless guys who are playing now can provide depth into the future.

BUT the Pats need impact players on the back end. The talent level needs to be improved. That's why adding a Vet safety who can step in and start with Chung is the most important piece, then adding a top notch prospect to provide depth and flexibility.

Think of all the TE's BB drafted before he hit on Gronk and Hernandez. You can't stop drafting DBs just because some of them didn't work out. I say keep the DBs coming and NO to the OL.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Center - Connelly has proven to be an upgrade in the passing game over Koppen, while Koppen was better in the run game. The bottom line is that the Pats currently have 2 very good C's on the roster. Do we need another.

I would argue that Connelly is not getting anything in the push department on running plays and the upgrade over Koppen in the passing game is minimal at best. Where he excels over Koppen is in anchoring.

And while I was a huge Konz fan at the beginning of the season due to his mobility and seek and destroy attitude while pulling and leading the back, I have seen zero of that this season. Plus his pass protection is not what I would call stellar this season either. He gets walked back a lot and without the ability to be a solid anchor, what good is he as a center?

It is no surprise in my book that Georgia's offense started playing better as Jones started dominating from the center position, but he is a younger version of Connelly. Quick launch, but he does not drive bigger DT's. In the SEC championship game he will have to deal with the young interior of the LSU defensive line. That should be worth watching closely.

In my mind, Decastro is the best OG prospect since Hutchinson. And Martin is the best power run blocking OT prospect I have seen in college since Joe Thomas. Those two together can collaspe any current NFL Dline. I question their ability to pass block on the next level.

But at the end of the day, our O line is not perfect, but is one of the best in the NFL and with Solder having an offseason with Dante and Nash, I think he has huge upside.

Therefore unless Martin or Decastro falls into our lap, I still think we need to our first five picks in the 12 draft to be defense, preferrably 4 in the front seven and one FS.

 

[Off The Grid]

He is the best O Guard Prospect in years.

In my mind, Decastro is the best OG prospect since Hutchinson.

It seems we see eye to eye on this.

Scary.

 

[Off The Grid]

And Kelemete, in particular, might be right down your alley: A Mid Rounder O Tackle ~ currently ~ who brings the requisite Launch Velocity, Processing Speed, and Core Strength to potentially play the Pivot at an high level.

MIND you: That's YOUR bag.

ME, I don't want anything less than ALL PRO at the Pivot.

Kelemete strikes me as a wonderfull Project...at his current Market Value.

But I'm inclined to spend heavily on O Center, if I believe a Difference Maker is In Play.

Whether or not that's the case remains to be seen.

Ultimately, though, it's not beyond the scope of reason that Kelemete may ultimately convert to Center...and prove to be the best one in this Draft Class!!

You and I both would spend a lot to get an elite Center, I often dream of traveling back in time and telling BB to draft Mangold, skipping over that bum Maroney, and then grabbing Greg Jennings and MJD in the 2nd round.

As far as whether or not the guy’s an all pro, I think it’s very important to look at why: if Klemente is a newly converted D-lineman I wouldn’t expect him to perform at a very high level in such a short time, which is fine if we’re talking about late round projects, if we’re going to spend a lot in the early rounds then the guy SHOULD be an absolute STUD and he should be ready to contribute very soon.

With conversion projects like this I’m in agreement with you, it's ok for a player not being an all-pro at the position they did play so long as they have the goods for the position he will play. I think Joe Webb is a fine example here, I’d LOVE to develop him as a WR for TFB to throw to, even though he was a QB in college his athleticism is so off the charts I probably couldn’t resist taking a shot on him in the late rounds, same with Michael Jasper. Hell, the Pats took Steven Neal who had 0 experience as an O-lineman but who was a damn good wrestler in college. The costs are low, the odds of success are MUCH better than Powerball, and it’ll likely be more interesting than being a guest on Jersey Shore.

Although it’s getting a bit freaky I’d love to see the Pats scout and recruit athletes in other sports, even in other countries! I’m sure there’s plenty of talent in the world of Rugby, soccer, world’s strongest man, sumo, etc.

The NFL probably pays a LOT better than what these guys make now, so let the Patriots lead the way in being innovative and daring, leading us to glory the whole time!

Also, great find with these guys :rocker: I'm going to have to dig up some footage on them.

Well SAID, Brother Snake!! If it were up to me ~ or you!! ~ we would leave NO stone unturned, all around the GLOBE!! :rocker:

 

[Boston Boxer]

Golic Jr will be an excellent center in the NFL for many years. Just cracked the Notre Dame starting line up this year, but he will be available in the 5th rd or later and will be an excellent value for some team.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Golic Jr will be an excellent center in the NFL for many years. Just cracked the Notre Dame starting line up this year, but he will be available in the 5th rd or later and will be an excellent value for some team.

Looks like his dad.

 

[Daigle]

I am not sure about this this "We are stacked at O-line-talk". If we can get Castro we should do it. Always pick the best player. Current need is for sure CB and S but O-line is so darn important even without considering our C need longterm. Connelly isnt longterm, he is the backup.

 

[Off The Grid]

I am not sure about this this "We are stacked at O-line-talk".

If we can get DeCastro we should do it.

Always pick the best player.

Current need is for sure CB and S but O-line is so darn important even without considering our C need longterm.

Connelly isnt longterm, he is the backup.

Could NOT agree with you MORE.

1 ~ Connolly is a great Reserve, but certainly not a Championship Level starter. Does ANYBODY want him going up against BJ Raji and Dom Caper's scheming in the Super Bowl??

2 ~ Brian Waters is terrific, but for how much longer?? Dave DeCastro is the best O Guard prospect in YEARS. And I assume that his potential Impact need NOT be explained to a fan of a team that once fielded none other than John Hannah.

3 ~ We're in the business of winning World Championships. And the last 90 years or so have shown us, time and time again, that NOTHING ~ except losing your QB ~ destroys that ambition as quickly as losing an High Caliber Grizzly with no Depth of Talent behind him.

2007: We lost because Steve Neal went down, and we had no Depth of Talent behind him.

2010: The Steelers lost to the Packers because Marquis de Pouncey went down.

1990: The Giants lost Phil Simms, but still won it all because of their O Line and their Defensive Front 7.

There are other factors, of course.

But the most reliable ~ the surest ~ path to competing LONG into to the Winter is to secure the services of a smart Field General...and to build nothing less than DOMINANCE on the O Line and the Defensive Front 7.

It All Starts In The Trenches.

Allways has.

Allways will.​

 

[Snake Eyes]

Could NOT agree with you MORE.

1 ~ Connolly is a great Reserve, but certainly not a Championship Level starter. Does ANYBODY want him going up against BJ Raji and Dom Caper's scheming in the Super Bowl??

2 ~ Brian Waters is terrific, but for how much longer?? Dave DeCastro is the best O Guard prospect in YEARS. And I assume that his potential Impact need NOT be explained to a fan of a team that once fielded none other than John Hannah.

3 ~ We're in the business of winning World Championships. And the last 90 years or so have shown us, time and time again, that NOTHING ~ except losing your QB ~ destroys that ambition as quickly as losing an High Caliber Grizzly with no Depth of Talent behind him.

2007: We lost because Steve Neal went down, and we had no Depth of Talent behind him.

2010: The Steelers lost to the Packers because Marquis de Pouncey went down.

1990: The Giants lost Phil Simms, but still won it all because of their O Line and their Defensive Front 7.

There are other factors, of course.

But the most reliable ~ the surest ~ path to competing LONG into to the Winter is to secure the services of a smart Field General...and to build nothing less than DOMINANCE on the O Line and the Defensive Front 7.

It All Starts In The Trenches.

Allways has.

Allways will.​

I love it! If we want TFB to play until his early 40s we need to protect him, that needs to be a PRIORITY, and a stud O-lineman is also kinda important for that running thing.

Although it's a bit of a wacky idea is there any reason DeCastro can't be groomed to play Center?

 

[Wilfork#75]

Could NOT agree with you MORE.

1 ~ Connolly is a great Reserve, but certainly not a Championship Level starter. Does ANYBODY want him going up against BJ Raji and Dom Caper's scheming in the Super Bowl??

2 ~ Brian Waters is terrific, but for how much longer?? Dave DeCastro is the best O Guard prospect in YEARS. And I assume that his potential Impact need NOT be explained to a fan of a team that once fielded none other than John Hannah.

3 ~ We're in the business of winning World Championships. And the last 90 years or so have shown us, time and time again, that NOTHING ~ except losing your QB ~ destroys that ambition as quickly as losing an High Caliber Grizzly with no Depth of Talent behind him.

2007: We lost because Steve Neal went down, and we had no Depth of Talent behind him.

2010: The Steelers lost to the Packers because Marquis de Pouncey went down.

1990: The Giants lost Phil Simms, but still won it all because of their O Line and their Defensive Front 7.

There are other factors, of course.

But the most reliable ~ the surest ~ path to competing LONG into to the Winter is to secure the services of a smart Field General...and to build nothing less than DOMINANCE on the O Line and the Defensive Front 7.

It All Starts In The Trenches.

Allways has.

Allways will.​

Grid, do you think DeCastro could be a conversion option as a C. I believe he played that position in high school and like you and Ochmed I think he is a special player. I know he is a little taller than you like but do you think he has the skillset to move inside? I'm hoping Cannon works out at RG, and even though DeCastro will probably be far better, I think C could be the position that could recieve the biggest upgrade.

In terms of the college season this year I think both DeCastro and Jonathan Martin have been extremely underrated and overlooked as part of Stanfords success. I know Andrew Luck gets a lot of the credit and rightfully so, but he has a GREAT O-line in front of him, especially with an elite LT and RG. I love Martin and I actually had him in my first 2012 mock draft before the 2011 draft, but I think he is a lock to go top 10, and could even challenge Matt Kalil for #1 OT depending on the scheme of the teams at the top of the draft (plus he isn't an option for the Pats anyway with Nate "Universal" Solder). I also think DeCastro will likely be out of range for the Pats because when all is said and done I think he goes maybe the late teens.

Another guy I would be interested to get your opinion on OTG is Josh Oglesby from Wisconsin. He's projected as a RT in the NFL but I'm intriuged by his potential as a mauling OG. Once again height is an issue at 6'7", but he can really get a push in the run game and when he gets his hands on you its all over. Injuries have really hurt him over the years after being the top OT recruit in the country a few years ago, but I think there might just be a little left in the tank. He needs to refine his technique instead of playing purely of talent and athletecism, but we certainly have the O-line coach for that. With injuries and inconsistency he is a late round pick with upside, but I would love to take a shot at him as either a RT or OG.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Although it’s getting a bit freaky I’d love to see the Pats scout and recruit athletes in other sports, even in other countries! I’m sure there’s plenty of talent in the world of Rugby, soccer, world’s strongest man, sumo, etc.

I don’t know if you’ve seen this but it makes me giddy when I think about how he’d be as a tight end.

The Best of Jonah Lomu MUST SEE!! (Rare Tries) Part 1 - YouTube

The NFL probably pays a LOT better than what these guys make now, so let the Patriots lead the way in being innovative and daring, leading us to glory the whole time!

Also, great find with these guys:rocker: I'm going to have to dig up some footage on them.

While I love the outside of the Box thinking Snake, I don't think they would be able to find too many guys that could make the transition. I think with American fans, growing up with the game, I think you may underappreciate how truely elite NFL athletes are. I've spent my entire life following Rugby Union, Rugby League and Australian Rules Football, and NFL players are just on another level in terms of athletecism. In todays game, between those three sports I can only think of maybe 1 guy that could transition to the NFL, and that would be purely as a kick returner. The height/weight/speed of NFL athletes is truely incredible.

Looking at Jonah Lomu, who I remeber watching as a kid, he was the absolute elite of the elite in terms of athletes in Rugby, and we havent seen anyone really like him since. And even with his level of athletecism I think he would be more of a Brandon Jacobs type RB. One of the things that really shocked me when I first started watching the NFL was the size of these guys. You give Gronk 12 months training in Rugby (either union or league) and he would be the best player in the world. The athletic gap is just that big. I can easily look at an NFL player or a college player and see how they could transition to other sports, but I can't see many that could transition to the NFL. I think a lot of that has to do with the Collegiate based sporting pathways in the US, which I think is really the best way to do it.

One last thing to look at in terms of NFL players vs other sporting codes like rugby is the type of athlete. The NFL is more of an anaerobic sport, with short bursts of high explosion. While other Sports such as the Rugby codes, Australian rules Football and Soccer are aerobically based and are more of an endurance sport and a grind. While it may not seem like a huge deal I think it could potentially be a huge hurdle for an already established professional athlete to transition into. They spend a large part of their life training their body to do a certain thing, so changing that could be an issue. I've already seen the results of that with guys changing sports out here, and the difference isn't nearly as large as the NFL.

These difficulties in trying to adapt to a sport like the NFL is one of the reason I am so excited to see Jessie Williams do so well at Alabama. Seeing an Aussie playing at an elite level in college is huge as an Australian fan. If they are to look at other sports to try and find the next NFL stars I think they have to do it at a young age and get them into the collegiate system. If they wait until they are established in other sports then I think its already too late. Maybe its because I've been watching these other sports my whole life, but sitting down and watching an NFL game or a College game is the most exciting team sport in the world to me, even just being able to appreciate how truely special these athletes are.

 

[Off The Grid]

I am not sure about this this "We are stacked at O-line-talk". If we can get Castro we should do it. Always pick the best player. Current need is for sure CB and S but O-line is so darn important even without considering our C need longterm. Connelly isnt longterm, he is the backup.

Could NOT agree with you MORE.

1 ~ Connolly is a great Reserve, but certainly not a Championship Level starter. Does ANYBODY want him going up against BJ Raji and Dom Caper's scheming in the Super Bowl??

2 ~ Brian Waters is terrific, but for how much longer?? Dave DeCastro is the best O Guard prospect in YEARS. And I assume that his potential Impact need NOT be explained to a fan of a team that once fielded none other than John Hannah.

3 ~ We're in the business of winning World Championships. And the last 90 years or so have shown us, time and time again, that NOTHING ~ except losing your QB ~ destroys that ambition as quickly as losing an High Caliber Grizzly with no Depth of Talent behind him.

2007: We lost because Steve Neal went down, and we had no Depth of Talent behind him.

2010: The Steelers lost to the Packers because Marquis de Pouncey went down.

1990: The Giants lost Phil Simms, but still won it all because of their O Line and their Defensive Front 7.

There are other factors, of course.

But the most reliable ~ the surest ~ path to competing LONG into to the Winter is to secure the services of a smart Field General...and to build nothing less than DOMINANCE on the O Line and the Defensive Front 7.

It All Starts In The Trenches.

Allways has.

Allways will.​

I love it! If we want TFB to play until his early 40s we need to protect him, that needs to be a PRIORITY, and a stud O-lineman is also kinda important for that running thing.

Although it's a bit of a wacky idea is there any reason DeCastro can't be groomed to play Center?

Grid, do you think DeCastro could be a conversion option as a C. I believe he played that position in high school and like you and Ochmed I think he is a special player. I know he is a little taller than you like but do you think he has the skillset to move inside? I'm hoping Cannon works out at RG, and even though DeCastro will probably be far better, I think C could be the position that could recieve the biggest upgrade.

In terms of the college season this year I think both DeCastro and Jonathan Martin have been extremely underrated and overlooked as part of Stanfords success. I know Andrew Luck gets a lot of the credit and rightfully so, but he has a GREAT O-line in front of him, especially with an elite LT and RG. I love Martin and I actually had him in my first 2012 mock draft before the 2011 draft, but I think he is a lock to go top 10, and could even challenge Matt Kalil for #1 OT depending on the scheme of the teams at the top of the draft (plus he isn't an option for the Pats anyway with Nate "Universal" Solder). I also think DeCastro will likely be out of range for the Pats because when all is said and done I think he goes maybe the late teens.

Another guy I would be interested to get your opinion on OTG is Josh Oglesby from Wisconsin. He's projected as a RT in the NFL but I'm intriuged by his potential as a mauling OG. Once again height is an issue at 6'7", but he can really get a push in the run game and when he gets his hands on you its all over. Injuries have really hurt him over the years after being the top OT recruit in the country a few years ago, but I think there might just be a little left in the tank. He needs to refine his technique instead of playing purely of talent and athletecism, but we certainly have the O-line coach for that. With injuries and inconsistency he is a late round pick with upside, but I would love to take a shot at him as either a RT or OG.

REMARKABLE that you both broached the DeCastro as an OG -> OC Convertible subject simultaneously!! :rocker:

Brother Mayo ~ who was LIGHT YEARS ahead of the rest of us on DeCastro!! ~ brought up that very same notion, recently, and it's one I've been torturing myself about, I must say...

To be perfectly honest, I think it is a credible notion: As you guys know, he was an highly rated Center out of High School, and while he's taller than I like for the position, so is Marquis de Pouncey, and my frothing admiration for him is well documented.

And it's certainly an attractive idea to draft him for Center so that we can take advantage of having Waters for the next couple years, and then perhaps draft another Center and slide DeCastro over...

Considering that all three top Centers this year have some question marks, I can certainly see the value in at least considering the idea: He's got the requisite Launch Velocity, Core Strength, and Processing Speed to excel.

What I'd really like to know is Coach Harbaugh's reason for bumping him to Guard in the first place.

DOES DeCastro have sufficient Fluidity to win the Leverage battle against elite competition at the NFL level, despite his height??

For my money, that's what it comes down to: Even though Center is a more vital position, I would rather have a perennial All Pro at O Guard than a good Center.

Hopefully, more light will be cast on this subject, in the months ahead.

 

[Off The Grid]

Another guy I would be interested to get your opinion on OTG is Josh Oglesby from Wisconsin. He's projected as a RT in the NFL but I'm intriuged by his potential as a mauling OG. Once again height is an issue at 6'7", but he can really get a push in the run game and when he gets his hands on you its all over. Injuries have really hurt him over the years after being the top OT recruit in the country a few years ago, but I think there might just be a little left in the tank. He needs to refine his technique instead of playing purely of talent and athletecism, but we certainly have the O-line coach for that. With injuries and inconsistency he is a late round pick with upside, but I would love to take a shot at him as either a RT or OG.

Ah, yes: poor old Oglesby!!

Can you BELIEVE he's projected as a UFA???

Indeed, I don't know what I was doing, NOT including him in my first Mock.

Consider him added.

Good EYE, Brother Wilfork.

***

As to whether or not he'd be an effective O Guard, I'd have to say I wouldn't expect it, for precisely the reason you cited: I just think his height would be too much'f an hindrance in The Battle of Leverage.

There are number of late round and UFA O Guards and O Tackle -> O Guard Convertibles that I'd love to see us take a look at in this draft, but precious few O Tackles in the late rounds or beyond that intrigue me, at a time when we really need to get one or two...So if it was up to me, we would definitely snatch Oglesby up, but keep him where he is.

That's my take. Honored that you asked, Brother Wilfork.

 

[Snake Eyes]

While I love the outside of the Box thinking Snake, I don't think they would be able to find too many guys that could make the transition. I think with American fans, growing up with the game, I think you may underappreciate how truely elite NFL athletes are. I've spent my entire life following Rugby Union, Rugby League and Australian Rules Football, and NFL players are just on another level in terms of athletecism. In todays game, between those three sports I can only think of maybe 1 guy that could transition to the NFL, and that would be purely as a kick returner. The height/weight/speed of NFL athletes is truely incredible.

Looking at Jonah Lomu, who I remeber watching as a kid, he was the absolute elite of the elite in terms of athletes in Rugby, and we havent seen anyone really like him since. And even with his level of athletecism I think he would be more of a Brandon Jacobs type RB. One of the things that really shocked me when I first started watching the NFL was the size of these guys. You give Gronk 12 months training in Rugby (either union or league) and he would be the best player in the world. The athletic gap is just that big. I can easily look at an NFL player or a college player and see how they could transition to other sports, but I can't see many that could transition to the NFL. I think a lot of that has to do with the Collegiate based sporting pathways in the US, which I think is really the best way to do it.

One last thing to look at in terms of NFL players vs other sporting codes like rugby is the type of athlete. The NFL is more of an anaerobic sport, with short bursts of high explosion. While other Sports such as the Rugby codes, Australian rules Football and Soccer are aerobically based and are more of an endurance sport and a grind. While it may not seem like a huge deal I think it could potentially be a huge hurdle for an already established professional athlete to transition into. They spend a large part of their life training their body to do a certain thing, so changing that could be an issue. I've already seen the results of that with guys changing sports out here, and the difference isn't nearly as large as the NFL.

These difficulties in trying to adapt to a sport like the NFL is one of the reason I am so excited to see Jessie Williams do so well at Alabama. Seeing an Aussie playing at an elite level in college is huge as an Australian fan. If they are to look at other sports to try and find the next NFL stars I think they have to do it at a young age and get them into the collegiate system. If they wait until they are established in other sports then I think its already too late. Maybe its because I've been watching these other sports my whole life, but sitting down and watching an NFL game or a College game is the most exciting team sport in the world to me, even just being able to appreciate how truely special these athletes are.

One isn't truly going to know unless you give it a try, otherwise it's just theory. Regarding people in other countries, we're not really going to see many specific football competencies jump out at us if they're doing a fundamentally different activity (aerobic v. anaerobic).

What I do know is that there will be a frequency that we see people at an elite level of athletic talent, it could vary depending on the stock of the particular group but it will be there. Other countries absolutely have elite athletes but they're not being channeled into football, they're going on to other sports. You won't see a European give up a professional soccer career to come here to play football but I could easily see someone who doesnt quite fit the mold of a soccer player being perfect for football. So, I really dont see how we could write off people from other countries on the basis that they're not elite athletes.

With Lomu, I don't want him as a RB, I want him as a TE, if Jacobs had any brains (he doesnt) he'd really work on improving his TE skills. The taller and heavier one is the lower their ability to shift and change directions, this is why jacobs is a downhill runner, a one trick pony if you will.

 

[Wilfork#75]

One isn't truly going to know unless you give it a try, otherwise it's just theory. Regarding people in other countries, we're not really going to see many specific football competencies jump out at us if they're doing a fundamentally different activity (aerobic v. anaerobic).

What I do know is that there will be a frequency that we see people at an elite level of athletic talent, it could vary depending on the stock of the particular group but it will be there. Other countries absolutely have elite athletes but they're not being channeled into football, they're going on to other sports. You won't see a European give up a professional soccer career to come here to play football but I could easily see someone who doesnt quite fit the mold of a soccer player being perfect for football.

With Lomu, I don't want him as a RB, I want him as a TE, if Jacobs had any brains (he doesnt) he'd really work on improving his TE skills. The taller and heavier one is the lower their ability to shift and change directions, this is why jacobs is a downhill runner, a one trick pony if you will.

There is no doubt that there are elite athletes in other sports, I just don't see many that would be elite NFL athletes. The NFL is a height/weight/speed game and I just don't see any guys with the kind of size and athletecism required in other professional sports that could translate. There just aren't many 6'5" 260lbs monster athletes in other sports. Look at Rugby, the elite athletes for that sport are no bigger than 230lbs, which really limits the positions available. None of them have the size/speed to play LB'er, none of them have the agility and speed to play RB or WR. And there definately aren't and 300+lbs guys to play on the O or D-lines. The guys above 230-240lbs don't have anywhere near the athletecism required to play in the NFL. Even Lomu, who was listed at 6'5" 260lbs (which I think is exaggerated after seeing him in person, albeit after he retired) I don't believe had the lateral agility to play TE. He was no doubt the athletic marvel of his time in rugby, but the guys he was going up against couldn't touch him athletically. You put him next to a guy like Gronk and he would look tiny. I compared him to Jacobs because thats what he was, a north-south runner who used power to go through guys. He did most of his damage before he even touched the ball because his game was won on intimidation. You stick him in the NFL against Ray Lewis and he gets lit up every time.

I think if there was a chance to look outside the box, I think its in the young Polynesian guys in places like NZ, Fiji, Somoa and Tonga. Like African American's, genetically they are just gifted. But the key would be to get to them early, get them into the collegiate system and let them grow up in the game rather then try to convert them. For me these are your best chance at getting the athletic guys with the required size. That to me is the issue, NFL players aren't just normal sized athletes, they are monsters.

 

[Off The Grid]

I think if there was a chance to look outside the box, I think its in the young Polynesian guys in places like NZ, Fiji, Somoa and Tonga.

Like African American's, genetically they are just gifted. But the key would be to get to them early, get them into the collegiate system and let them grow up in the game rather then try to convert them. For me these are your best chance at getting the athletic guys with the required size. That to me is the issue, NFL players aren't just normal sized athletes, they are monsters.

On any WebSite, one has to mine a ton of gravel for every ounce of precious gems.

One of the most gratifying processes is when two fine minds keep arguing +/- discussing an issue.

I don't know about being genetically gifted, but the notion of sending Scouts out to the remotest regions of the Planet, in search of natural Skill Sets, greatly appeals to me. The remoter, the better. And I believe the notion of doing so early enough to get them into the College System ~ where high school stalwarts routinely bulk up dramatically ~ is a very wise one, indeed.