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* 2012 Draft Defensive Tackles *


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Although one can question the talen available. Isnt DT a position where we have multiple young prospects in already? Seems more a question that someone needs to step up to the next level.

Also what about Love, he gets some praise on the board although I´not sold on him. (Looking at you Off the grid) :)

Maybe if you stopped for a second and actually thought about things, you'd have answered this yourself.

Contrary to you, this draft actually has some very good talent. And Cornerback isn't one of the spots that jumps out at people, though you seem to be one of the only ones thinking it does.

As for the Pats having "multiple" young prospects at DT, They have Love and Deaderick and Pryor. However Deaderick and Pryor are more DEs in both the 4-3 and 3-4 and neither has shown the ability to be out there on every play. On the contrary. Pryor has shown a propensity for being hurt. So who is left? Exactly. Adding someone like Winn would actually HELP this team, particularly in the 3-4. In the 4-3, Winn gives the Pats someone who can play either DT or DE depending on what is needed.

As for you being sold on Love, who cares what you think about him? Clearly the PATS think that he is good enough to start next to Wilfork in the 4-3 on a regular basis. But, something else you completely over-look is that it would be better for the Pats if they could do more rotations of these guys instead of having them get pushed around by long drives..
 
Damn, dude...Please don't harsh on Brother Daigle ~ he's a good guy. :)

Respectfully submitted. :cool:
 
Maybe if you stopped for a second and actually thought about things, you'd have answered this yourself.

Contrary to you, this draft actually has some very good talent. And Cornerback isn't one of the spots that jumps out at people, though you seem to be one of the only ones thinking it does.

As for the Pats having "multiple" young prospects at DT, They have Love and Deaderick and Pryor. However Deaderick and Pryor are more DEs in both the 4-3 and 3-4 and neither has shown the ability to be out there on every play. On the contrary. Pryor has shown a propensity for being hurt. So who is left? Exactly. Adding someone like Winn would actually HELP this team, particularly in the 3-4. In the 4-3, Winn gives the Pats someone who can play either DT or DE depending on what is needed.

As for you being sold on Love, who cares what you think about him? Clearly the PATS think that he is good enough to start next to Wilfork in the 4-3 on a regular basis. But, something else you completely over-look is that it would be better for the Pats if they could do more rotations of these guys instead of having them get pushed around by long drives..

1. I didnt say I like Love.

2. I can name more CBs mocked in the first round than you can pick DTs in the first, maybe even second combined.

3. The DTs you mention is still on the team so until they get cut, I think they are still in the race.

Sir you are out of order.
 
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...it would be better for the Pats if they could do more rotations of these guys instead of having them get pushed around by long drives..

Yes, indeed.

As part of the "43" movement, I see Brace adding to the D Tackle mix, but while we'd do all right with Love as a starter and Brace as #3, we would be LOADED with Taamu ~ or Winn, if you please ~ as our other starter, Love as the #3, and Brace as the #4!!

The Ripple Effects could be immense:

1 ~ D Tackle has more impact on the entire D than any other position.

2 ~ Deeper Quality of Depth in Rotations makes all concerned far more effective.

3 ~ Deeper Quality of Depth lessens wear + tear, further increasing everyone's effectiveness.

4 ~ A long term benefit is that less wear + tear extend careers, and their quality.
 
If the Pats do look for an interior DLman this spring, there is only ONE quality I'm looking for out of him - interior pass rush. We have plenty of young guys right now who can stuff the run, and Gerard Warren type veteran FAs are a dime a dozen.

I'm looking for a guy who can replace Mike Wright, quy who can consistently push the pocket. Just tell me which of these guys who are mentioned can fulfill this task Grid, and he will immediately become my new Binky.

Duly noted, sir. I'll put my best man on the job. :D
 
If the Pats do look for an interior DLman this spring, there is only ONE quality I'm looking for out of him - interior pass rush. We have plenty of young guys right now who can stuff the run, and Gerard Warren type veteran FAs are a dime a dozen.

I'm looking for a guy who can replace Mike Wright, quy who can consistently push the pocket. Just tell me which of these guys who are mentioned can fulfill this task Grid, and he will immediately become my new Binky.

Certainly a useful trait. Although I think I can see the logic of having slightly cheaper DLs mainly, but not only, stuffing the run and bringing pressure from the edge. Linebackers are usually cheaper right ? Not sure how the math turns out. I believe one of the argument of the 3-4 is that its "cheaper".

Playing these guys we have now might free cap space we need for other players. We are certainly not in danger of exceeding it but Welker might cost a couple of dollars for example.

All in all it comes down to if the money spent longterm is better spent at another pos. This of course will not affect any rookies since they will usually get quite low cost but still, I am thinking longterm.

Also this is more a point what I think might be the plan.
 
Also, DTs is my favourite position, make no mistake about it. Thats why I am still crying over Haynesworth not being the guy he could have been.
 
A guy I'd love us to pick up as a Late Round ~ UFA Nose Tackle:

6.1/330 Hebron Fangupo of Brigham Young.

Wes Bunting at National FootBall Post is exceptional at unearthing hidden gems like this guy.
 
A guy I'd love us to pick up as a Late Round ~ UFA Nose Tackle:

6.1/330 Hebron Fangupo of Brigham Young.

Wes Bunting at National FootBall Post is exceptional at unearthing hidden gems like this guy.

I see him listed at 6.1 310 at USC, is that the guy ?
 
Still think we are going mainly 3-4 next year, but here's two that can play both DT/DE and won't break the bank.

Kheeston Randall Texas 6-5 295
Derek Wolfe Cincinnati 6-5 302 look like Ty Warren types with more sacks

Around 3rd rd for both, as of now.
 
I see him listed at 6.1 310 at USC, is that the guy ?

He transfered before this season. Also found he's 26 right now...
 
Still think we are going mainly 3-4 next year, but here's two that can play both DT/DE and won't break the bank.

Kheeston Randall Texas 6-5 295
Derek Wolfe Cincinnati 6-5 302 look like Ty Warren types with more sacks

Around 3rd rd for both, as of now.

Very spare year for big 3-4 DE's. Having said that however, if we could get an elephant backer for our defense, we could very easily slide from the 3-4 to the 4-3 next year. I would also add Still to this list, although he could be gone by the time we draft. We might also want to add Crick to this list. He has been injured this year, but Nebraska plays read and react and he is very good at it.

Unfortunately I do not see any that could start as rookies, but some that could grow into that role include Curry of Marshall, Bequette of Arkansas and Jackson of Tenn. And all can be drafted on day three of the draft and if they run well, can play ST while they learn the position.
 
Devon still at LDE in a 4-3. I always thought of him as a DT next to Vince but perhaps he'd be best against the taller tackles of the NFL. Since our LDE is bigger than most I think he'd be a good fit.
 
DE vs. DT.

3-4 vs. 4-3

With what BB has been doing wrt the DL the past couple seasons, I've given up trying to accommodate those traditional classifications.

In my mind, among the front seven, there are:
- ILBs
- OLBs (who might also be pass-rushers OR coverage guys)
- pass-rushing DEs (who might also stand up/drop back into a pseudo-OLB role in certain situations)
- DL "Heavies", guys who are about 290+ whose roles (regardless of 3-4/4-3) might include gap-stuffing, blocker-eating, gap-shooting, interior pressure, some edge-setting/edge pressure, etc.

In the DL Heavy category, I see the Pats as being fairly thin.

- Wilfork and Love are both solid and fairly versatile as the #1/#2 combo.
- Warren, at the moment, overall seems like the best 3rd guy. I think his effectiveness has improved over 2010, partly due to his reduced workload, partly due to to experience with BB and the team. But he turns 34 just at the start of 2012 training camp.
- Deaderick, in spite of no off-season and missing five weeks of training camp and six weeks of the regular season, appears to have shown some improvement in consistency and solid play in his limited appearances so far (better than Ellis). I have no idea what his ceiling is - he could be close to it or he could still have a lot of untapped potential. However, even if he doesn't improve a huge amount from this point, he still seems worth keeping through the end of his rookie contract as a reserve/utility/situational guy.

- Brace experienced the same lack of training as Deaderick this season, but hasn't shown me as much improvement in any role, end or interior. I don't know that I'd count on him for much going forward.
- Ellis, who will turn 35 in June, hasn't shown me enough to be considered as the best desperation fallback, even for the remainder of THIS season. I'm guessing he's gone in February.
- Pryor certainly has shown reasonable aptitude as an interior pressure guy with some versatility. But his injury history - SHEESH! I can't classify him as "reliable" at this point.
- Wright doesn't return now, I don't think.

So, bottom line for me is that, among their DL Heavies, the Pats have two reliable starters and two decent reserves, one of whom is nearing the end of his career. So, I feel like the Pats are bound to acquire at least two new bodies in this category this off-season, probably at least one draftee (and late-round*/UDFA) and one or two FA - to fill potentially three to five open spots. What "types" end up in camp may depend on what BB's intentions are for 2012. OR, it may work the other way around - what BB develops for the 2012 DL may depend on what "types" he ends up acquiring.

* Starting with 2-1sts and 2-2nds, I believe, presents more than enough wheeling-and-dealing opportunities for BB to end up with a couple picks in rounds 5-7.
 
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Explanation of Colors + Numbers

1 ~ Red = OverRated ~ in my OH so humble opinion!!

2 ~ Purple = Sleeper or Steal or Super Sleeper!!

3 ~ Blue = Bargain ~ Good Value.

4 ~ The first number = Market Value ~ my best guess, based on CBS, Walter, Et Cetera...

5 ~ The second number = FIENDISH Value ~ how I grade them!!

6 ~ These will all be Cut + Pasted from yon Site, so the formats are different.

An Explanation of My Twisted ViewPoint!!

I have no intention or expectation of converting anyone to my view of things, of course. That doesn't happen, anyway: People make up their own minds in their own way...But an explanation is warranted, I think, out of respect to those of you who do me the honor of reading these Works.

***

Ahh...Defensive Tackles.

I love all of FootBall...and all FootBall players...

But D Tackles lie closest to my heart.

These are the Grizzlies ~ on occasion: The Super Grizzlies!! ~ that forge Championships...and are then forgotten...

...Except by those of us who truly Love This Game.

As with O Line Grizzlies ~ who own an equally resplendent place in my Heart ~ it's all about Core Strength and Core Power, Launch Velocity and Explosion...when I'm evaluating D Grizzlies.

***

Michael Brockers ~ 6.6/322 ~ 1st ~ 1st

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SuperBeast!! Michael Brockers is a little raw and will probably need time to develop, but he brings a disruptive fusion of Core Strength, Core Power, and Launch Velocity to this Great Game.

This is a rare Force who should become equally devastating against the Run and against the Pass.

Most impressive, though, are his already well-refined Diagnostic Acuity and Processing Speed. Watching him on Tape, it's clear that he's watched plenty Tape, himself, and is a truly dedicated Student of the Game.

Build your Defense around this guy.

A Steal, despite the lofty Price Tag!!

Devon Still ~ 6.5/303 ~ 1st ~ 2nd

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Starter!! Devon Still has "Beast" upside, and he played like a Beast as a Senior, but I sense that his High Upside is accompanied by an equally low Downside.

So in this case, a "Starter" Value is my notion of an equivalent to High Ceiling/Low Floor!!

Make no mistake: Devon Still brings considerable Strength, Power, and Athleticism to the table.

And he has been consistently productive at Penn State, peaking in this, his Senior year.

But there are some questions out there about his Passion for this Great Game.

Mind you: I'm not yet nearly good enough at this to discern with certainty that this is the case, based on Tape, alone. And I despise unfounded gossip.

But National FootBall Post's Wes Bunting has questioned it, and I place great confidence in Mister Bunting's analytical powers. He doesn't tend to express doubts unless he's been given good reason to do so.

As such, I'm assigning an High Risk Factor to young Mister Still, for the time being, and setting a 2nd Round Value. As such, I'd have to call'm OverRated!!

Fletcher Cox ~ 6.4/298 ~ 1st ~ 2nd

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Starter!! I notice that there is a tendency ~ by Scouts far more knowledgeable than me, mind you ~ to attribute consistently poor pad level to inexperience.

And to a good extent, I'm sure they're right.

But I see it, most of all, as insufficient Core Strength.

And that, of course, is ~ for me ~ the most alarming Red Flag that any Grizzly can be saddled with.

Fletcher Cox commands exceptional Athleticism. His Lateral Agility and Fluidity are both outstanding, and, indeed, his Fluidity goes a ways towards allaying my concerns about him.

And his Launch Velocity is deliciously Explosive.

But his Core Strength is an enormous hindrance to'is success, causing him to get washed out time and again.

And he also gets flagged both for Diagnostic Acuity and for Processing Speed, two attributes that are utterly vital to success at the next level.

I do believe he'll make plays and get his Sacks.

But I have grave doubts about his ability to perform consistently and well at the next level. OverRated!!

Dontari Poe ~ 6.4/346 ~ 1st ~ 2nd

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Starter!!

Potential Beast.

Potential Bust.

Dontari Poe commands ~ clearly commands ~ the most awe-inspiring fusion of Strength, Power, Size, and astonishing Athleticism of any Grizzly on either side of the ball, this year!!

The only question is: Will he harness his amazing Gifts??

That is a very big question.

He was not productive at the college level.

And yet his Market Value has skyrocketed, in the wake of that crazy Combine.

Even so: Caveat Emptor!!

This is a classic High Ceiling/Low Floor Prospect, ladies and gentlemen!! And that talent has not yet translated onto the field. All Prospects are gambles, but this one's far too expensive for my taste. OverRated!!

Jerel Worthy ~ 6.2/308 ~ 1st-2nd ~ 2nd-3rd

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Starter!! Jerel Worthy makes plays, but I have some doubts about his ability to consistently hold his own.

He commands the Explosion, the Power, and the Speed to split Gaps, attack, and make plays.

But I'm not convinced that he has the Strength or Fluidity to consistently hold his own, shed Blocks, or sustain Gaps at the next level.

He strikes me as a guy who will make plays against weaker competition and get his numbers...but who you won't be able to count on against top competition.

As such, I'm looking at a 2nd-3rd round grade for him, which, in my view, makes him a bit OverRated!!

Kendall Reyes ~ 6.4/300 ~ 1st-2nd ~ 1st-2nd

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Starter!! Kendell Reyes commands a very impressive fusion of Explosive Burst and Core Flexibility.

His Core Strength is good and improving, and he's an intelligent Scrapper who I feel very confident is going to make the most of his not inconsiderable skills.

He's already a dangerous Attacker.

And I believe he's going to become a solid Defender.

His Stock has risen considerably, but even in the 1st to 2nd Round Range, I'd say it's warranted. Fair Value!!

Brandon Thompson ~ 6.2/314 ~ 2nd ~ 2nd

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Starter!! Brandon Thompson has a pretty impressive Burst off the Snap for a Beast of his size, and that, combined with superior Processing Speed, makes him a dangerous Attacker, against the Run and the Pass.

As a Defender, though, he's got work to do, as both his Core Strength and Fluidity are concerns.

All in all, Thompson looks like a starter at the next level, and quite possibly a good one, if he improves his Core Strength. Fair Value!!

Mike Martin ~ 6.1/306 ~ 3rd ~ 3rd-4th

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Potential Starter!! Mike Martin is Scrapper Deluxe:

Marginal Core Strength and Fluidity, but enough of both to at least compete at the next level, and a very impressive fusion of Ferocity and Processing Speed:

This is a guy who will play far above his head for his entire career, while his detractors wait...and wait...and wait...for him to come back down to Earth.

Mind you: This is also the kind of guy who scraps and scrapes his way into a starting gig, and actually does all right most of the time...but ends up getting hideously exposed against top competition.

Even so: He should be an invaluable Role Player, or a solid starter, and for a long time. Fair Value!!
 
Alameda Taamu ~ 6.3/348 ~ 3rd ~ 1st

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Beast!! Alameda Taamu is a gargantuan MASS...yet he boasts very little excess weight, having vanquished previous weight problems.

That isn't fat.

That's Core Strength.

And he commands surprising Agility.

What I love most, though, is his Work Ethic.

I believe that Alameda Taamu has the potential to be the mauling, Run-Stuffing, Middle-Clogging, Lynch Pin of a Defense ~ probably as a "34" Nose Tackle ~ for at least the next decade...and that he will be. Sleeper!!

Kheeston Randall ~ 6.5/293 ~ 3rd-4th ~ 2nd-3rd

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Starter!! Kheeston Randall can look awful at times, and his game is very raw, indeed: His Dexterity is dubious, and his Mechanics need a lot of work.

But his Core Strength is tremendous, his Burst off the Snap is impressive, and he brings intriguing Fluidity and Lateral Agility to the table.

Randall is a Project, but one with outstanding upside, in my view. High Ceiling/Low Floor!! Deal!!

Marcus Forston ~ 6.1/301 ~ 3rd-4th ~ 4th-5th

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Potential Starter!! Marcus Forston brings exceptional Athleticism to the table, he's Explosive off the Snap, and he commands impressive Core Flexibility.

But I'm very concerned about his tendency to Play High, which tells me his Core Strength is far less than it needs to be to succeed at the next level.

And of course there are doubts about his Health.

Frankly, I'm inclined to suspect that the health problems are a result of insufficient Core Strength.

In any case, I have grave doubts about his ability to hold up at the next level, and suspect he's gonna be the kind of player to occasionally flash brilliance, but spend a lot of time on ice, and generally disappoint the team that rolls the dice on'm. OverRated!!

DaJohn Harris ~ 6.3/306 ~ 4th ~ 5th-6th

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Role Player!! DaJohn Harris commands a nice Burst off the Snap, but dubious Fluidity and unimpressive Lateral Agility.

His Core Strength is improving, though it still needs further development...And there are questions about his Work Ethic. The fact that he was listed second on the Depth Chart during Camp as a Senior, and then showed much improved Core Strength, troubles me.

He may very well prove me wrong, but right now I see'm as more of a rotational guy. OverRated!!

Brett Roy ~ 6.3/275 ~ 4th-5th ~ UFA

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Fringe Reserve!! Brett Roy is hampered by a crippling lack of Core Strength, dubious Fluidity, and poor Lateral Agility.

He could possibly get some action as an Under Tackle, but Defensive End or possibly Flanker seems wiser.

He's smart and his Work Ethic is great, but I have to call him a Fringe Reserve at this point. OverRated!!

Hebron Fangupo ~ 6.1/323 ~ 4th-5th ~ 4th-5th

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Potential Starter!! Hebron Fangupo is extremely raw at this point, and his Core Strength needs work.

But he does bring superior Core Flexibility and a tremendous Work Ethic to the table, which suggests that he's got what it takes to develop into a pretty formidable Force, given some time.

He doesn't command much Fluidity, so he's probably going to be better taking up Blocks against the Run than slipping Blocks and penetrating against the Pass.

All in all, a pretty intriguing combination of Raw Material and Work Ethic. Fair Value!!

Akiem Hicks ~ 6.5/318 ~ 5th ~ 2nd-3rd

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Starter!! More Like: Potential Beast with a Low Floor!!

Akiem Hicks commands my Trifecta: Impressive Core Strength, Explosive Burst, and superior Fluidity.

The Long Arms are a pretty sweet bonus, too.

Raw?? Oh, HELL, yeah.

He needs a lot of work.

But so are Michael Brockers and Dontari Poe, who are ~ quite aptly ~ looking at 1st Round Market Value.

Hicks has a dubious resume and needs to answer some questions, otherwise I'd put a 1st Rounder stamp on'm.

Even as it is, he represents one hell of a sweet roll of the dice on Day 3!! Super Sleeper!!
 
Josh Chapman ~ 6.1/316 ~ 6th ~ 2nd-3rd

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Starter!! Josh Chapman commands neither Fluidity nor Lateral Agility to any great degree, but this guy brings outstanding Core Strength, Long Arms, and astonishing Tenacity to the table!!

He played half his Senior seasons with a torn ACL.

That is unheard of.

That injury, the resulting surgery, and the fact that his long term health is going to be in question when the Draft comes has caved his Stock in, of course.

But I see that as an overwhelming Opportunity.

This kid has the heart of a LION...And when I consider his Heart, his Passion, and his Tenacity, combined with his brutal Core Strength, it's crystal clear to me that he's one of the best bets you can make, this year.

He will not dazzle you, by any means, but this is the kind of guy who will consume Blocks at the very heart of the Battle, and do so, I believe, for a very long time.

Josh Chapman looks like a starting caliber Nose Tackle at the next level, and a damned good one. Steal!!

Derek Wolfe ~ 6.5/295 ~ 6th-7th ~ 6th-7th

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Reserve!! Derek Wolfe doesn't command much in the way of Core Strength, Power, or Athleticism, but he does bring an impressive Work Ethic to the table, and could carve out a spot as a Reserve. Fair Value!!

Mike Daniels ~ 6.0/291 ~ 7th ~ 4th-5th

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Super Role Player!! Mike Daniels is about the size of a Gnat, and has no business manning the interior of a Defensive Line at the Professional level.

But it says here that this guy is, nevertheless, gonna carve out a long, remarkable career for'mself.

Mike Daniels simply lacks the size to hold up in the Run Game at the next level, let's be clear about that.

But he brings a truly astounding fusion of (relative) Core Strength, explosive Burst off the Snap, astonishing Fluidity, frightening Lateral Agility, and relentless Tenacity to the table!!

As a Passing Down Sub Rushing Under Tackle, he could and should be a FORCE.

Obviously, I love this kid, and while his role must of course be limited at the next level ~ though I get the sneaky suspicion he'll end up getting a lot more snaps than even his most ardent fans would expect!! ~ his potential Excellence at his Work, in my view, warrants a substantially earlier pick than might be expected under most circumstances!! Steal!!

Jaye Howard ~ 6.3/301 ~ 7th ~ 4th

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Potential Starter!! Jaye Howard exhibits outstanding Core Power on the Attack, but needs to work on his Core Strength in Defense. His Burst is impressively explosive, and his Dexterity is also remarkable.

He could be a real Force in Pass Defense, but needs a lot of work on his Core Strength to become effective in Run Defense. At worst, a tremendous Sub Pack weapon. At best, a very good Starter. Sleeper!!

Dominique Hamilton ~ 6.5/312 ~ UFA ~ 3rd-4th

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Potential Starter!! Dominique Hamilton projects unremarkable Core Strength, playing at Tackle as he does with Mizzou, but he displays an impressive Coil and Core Flexibility, and I have a strong feeling that he'd look far more effective ~ considering his height, which is a great disadvantage in the interior ~ if he moved out to Defensive End at the next level.

And he commands an impressive level of Athleticism.

Hamilton gets excellent reviews for his Work Ethic as well, and I believe that all he needs is the Opportunity at the next level, and he will very likely develop into a stalwart starting Defensive End!! Sleeper!!

Charles Deas ~ 6.3/315 ~ UFA ~ 6th-7th

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Reserve!! Charles Deas isn't outstanding in any particular aspect of the job, but he's got the perfect size to play Defensive Tackle, he's got an impressive Burst off the Snap, and he also commands sufficient Core Strength, Core Power, and Athleticism.

He's raw as hell, but he's got the Skill Set to start at the next level, if he's got what it takes to put all the work in.

Definitely worth a Later Rounder. Deal!!

Chigbo Anunoby ~ 6.4/328 ~ UFA ~ 3rd-4th

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Potential Starter!! Chigbo Anunoby commands utterly brutal Core Strength, surprisingly decent Fluidity, and absolutely startling Processing Speed for a Prospect coming from a small school.

Anunoby is merely one of the many gems unearthed by Wes Bunting of National FootBall Post.

He is very raw, of course, and is much better against the Run than the Pass, but there's no question that he commands remarkable upside. Sleeper!!

Damon Harrison ~ 6.2/348 ~ UFA ~ 3rd-4th

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Potential Starter!! Damon Harrison commands very little Athleticism, and is extremely raw in many aspects.

But he does bring excellent Core Strength and Core Power to the table, and both the Frame and the Core Flexibility to develop considerably more.

And he boasts impressive Processing Speed, as well, quite remarkable coming from such a remote location.

Another of National FootBall Post's Wes Bunting's many impressive finds!!

He'd likely be best limited to Running Downs at the next level, but Damon Harrison shows the potential to become a remarkable Run Defender. Sleeper!!
 
What a joke this so called "evaluation" is.

Build your team around a player (Brockers) who had no production in college, gets no penetration on his rushes, had a poor combine, and basically is just riding the LSU name to get drafted. Great advice. This guy is the most overrated of all DLs in this draft.


While the guy with the best production (Wolfe), who helped his team lead the nation in TFLs per game, and come second in sacks per game, is good for the 6-7th round. LMAO at this BS "Derek Wolfe doesn't command much in the way of Core Strength, Power, or Athleticism".
Kendall Reyes who had half of Wolfe's production last season playing same conference same position is 1st round value, while Wolfe is 6-7 round. Yeah right.
 
Not with the Wolfe crap again...:bricks:
 
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