* 2012 Draft Defensive Corner Backs *

[cstjohn17]

I could see a scenario where Kirkpatrick and Jenkins are available at 27. Would you pull the trigger?

 

[mgteich]

Of course, also for Gilmore.

I could see a scenario where Kirkpatrick and Jenkins are available at 27. Would you pull the trigger?

 

[Off The Grid]

OTG, our short lists are similar. I don't like Trumaine, though, as much as you will dislike to hear that statement.

Four players vastly overlooked in this process: Ron Brooks, Coty Sensebaugh, Donnie Fletcher, and Casey Hayward.

I've written extensively about Brooks in the past. I will let that analysis stand on its own.

I've rewatched a lot of Clemson lately, and #15 kept standing out precisely because he's never in the play. He might be the best press-man corner in the country. I have no clue how he is so poorly rated. He put up exceptional agility and speed numbers at the combine, but still no one seems to project him as either a high pick or an NFL starter. Yet when I watch him, he is almost impossible to beat deep. He's cat-quick and can run with anyone down the field. In all the games I watched, he locked down some pretty solid opponents. The quarterbacks almost never even looked his way.

Caveat: his run defense sucks. He can't get off a block to save his life, and he's more of a drag down tackler than anything else. That said, he is fast, physical, and in-your-face. He reminds me a lot of Webb, actually. Undersized but aggressive, and really excellent in man to man. Could bring an important element to our defense.

Fletcher is a big corner, but with great straight-line speed. He has played exclusively in a zone system for four years at BC, and he has some real talent. Now, the BC requires corners to play way off the WR, which I hate, but Fletcher still managed to be fairly consistent and disruptive from the CB position. Because of his size, speed, ball skills, and keen understanding of zone coverages, I think he's an ideal safety conversion. With his size, he could also learn press-man, although he's lacking ideal quickness to stay with smaller, quicker receivers.

Oh, and: why isn't Casey Hayward considered a first/second rounder? No one in the nation has better anticipation or ball skills. We're talking six passes broken up in a single game against Jarius Wright, Joe Adams, and Greg Childs. He can be beaten downfield (not the fleetest of foot, although not slow), but he tracks the ball in the air better than most corners at the pro level, knows how to recover, and never panics. Will be one of the best defensive backs from this class. I think he'll play 10+ years, barring injury, and will be well decorated in his career.

I think I'd go with Sensabaugh and Fletcher, personally. I used to prefer Gilmore, Brooks, Minnifield, Hayward, and Fleming, but the more I look at the overall class lately, the more I think we can find value at corner and receiver late in the draft. This is not the case with defensive ends and tackles, and so my earlier round projections have looked different in the past few days.

I don't like Trumaine, though, as much as you will dislike to hear that statement.

:ban?:

That was said with Love, Brother Reamer.

MIND you: I am no FANATIC about Trumaine...I just like the kid a LOT.

And seriously: What an incredibly rich, insightful, and deeply developed Post.

***

1 ~ Let me reiterate something important: Although my turn of phrase oft lends an air of intellectual Authority to my Obloviations, allow me to assure you and all others: It is NOT warranted!! MIND you: I have come a LONG way in 18 to 24 months, as my exploding OBSESSION with The Draft has spawned a CONSUMING appetite for Information, and I have busted my @$$ to drive towards Expertise...

But I have no desire to delude: There are MANY aspects of Scouting that I have not yet mastered, so anything I say should be taken with a GALLON of salt...

I WILL say, in my favor, that it's clear to me ~ even at this relatively early juncture ~ that the vast majority of those Sites and "Experts", including the likes of Mel Kiper and many famous faces ~ are 100% EXCREMENT...And that I will never indulge is such Fecal Philosophy. Raw or not, my noise is Authentic.

But I've got a LONG ways to go before claiming the status of "Expert"...And even if I attain that level, at any point, it won't be for me to say so, one way or another.

Wow, I got FAR off the Path, on that one...

2 ~ What I was driving at is this: I'm a LONG ways away from ENTRENCHING myself in my original opinions. For one thing, I have much to learn. For another, there are so many hours in a day, and I have been EGREGIOUSLY drawn away by the responsibilities I've taken on at FFF to cut and paste every substantial Scouting Report on every substantial Prospect that I could find, up until setting that COMPLETELY aside, a week or two ago...

As such, I have not been able to carve out enough time for studying tape ~ read: Obsession Level!! ~ as I would've preferred...So it's quite possible that this or that has slipped below my Radar...

3 ~ Coty SensaBaugh is a VERY good example of this, and let me tell you: I am already HALF WAY to to jacking him WAY up my list, based on your RAGING Scouting Report on'm!!

4 ~ I diverge with you, regarding Donnie Fletcher, as I'm not feeling the Fluidity, or ~ far more importantly ~ the Verticity...but I'm intrigued with your suggestion of'm as a Safety Convertible.

5 ~ I've actually got a very high opinion of Casey Hayward ~ perhaps my Fiend Value didn't properly reflect that!! ~ but I think that he's so Zone Specific that he wouldn't be a great match, here...Tampa 2, is what I'm thinking, for'm..

6 ~ Wow. OK, I'll say this: The further you get away from the Ball, the more open I am to suggestions, because I don't sense that my developing "expertise" is anywhere near as up to par as I wish it to be...And so I am VERY intrigued by your comments on Ron Brooks!! As you know, he slipped in, VERY late, and Under The Radar, so my constraints of time have cost me the opportunity to get as up to speed on'm as I'd've like to've ben...But never fear!! I am ON the JOB!!

Seriously: TREMENDOUS Post, Brother Reamer!! :rocker:

I am now 15% smarter, for having read it.

 

[Off The Grid]

I used to prefer Gilmore, Brooks, Minnifield, Hayward, and Fleming, but the more I look at the overall class lately, the more I think we can find value at corner and receiver late in the draft.

This is not the case with defensive ends and tackles, and so my earlier round projections have looked different in the past few days.

That, of course, is what I've been SCREECHING, for the last few years.

Draft Grizzlies early...and then fill out with ancillary positions.

 

[State]

Jamall Flemings is flying up the boards. He looks like a late first-rounder or an early second round player. Great-looking athlete who looks to play well with Patrick Chung.

By that I mean he's a smart guy who has football as a priority.

And he has certainly produced over the past two years. There are some videos on the internet of him showing up for big games.

I can see us going DE with 27, with Andre Branch.

And with 31 going for a CB, Jamall Flemings, Chase Minnifield, or super fast athlete Josh Robinson. But I prefer Flemings. I love his size and how he shows up big on the biggest stages.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Jamall Flemings is flying up the boards. He looks like a late first-rounder or an early second round player. Great-looking athlete who looks to play well with Patrick Chung.

By that I mean he's a smart guy who has football as a priority.

And he has certainly produced over the past two years. There are some videos on the internet of him showing up for big games.

I can see us going DE with 27, with Andre Branch.

And with 31 going for a CB, Jamall Flemings, Chase Minnifield, or super fast athlete Josh Robinson. But I prefer Flemings. I love his size and how he shows up big on the biggest stages.

Never heard of him. In unrelated news Jamell Fleming, tragically, has fallen off my binky list. Tragic! I know!

Sorry Manx.

In my defense, it's not him, he's an impressive specimen, it's the cornerback market. This years the cornerback market is loaded with quality players, even down to the 7th round.

I still badly want him in a Patriots uniform, and I still think he is severely underrated. He's the third best man coverage corner in my opinion. He's only behind Claiborne and Jenkins, two obvious shutdown prospects.

 

[manxman2601]

Never heard of him. In unrelated news Jamell Fleming, tragically, has fallen off my binky list. Tragic! I know!

Sorry Manx.

In my defense, it's not him, he's an impressive specimen, it's the cornerback market. This years the cornerback market is loaded with quality players, even down to the 7th round.

I still badly want him in a Patriots uniform, and I still think he is severely underrated. He's the third best man coverage corner in my opinion. He's only behind Claiborne and Jenkins, two obvious shutdown prospects.

Betrayed!!!

I'm pretty much set on taking him out of my mock too. Don't get me wrong, I'll be doing cartwheels if we take him on draft day but judging by the visits the Patriots have organised I think they're looking at later round corners.

But if I was sitting in the War Room on draft day and with pick #31, BB turned round to me and said "Manx, this is your call", depending on the board, I wouldn't hesitate to take Fleming. He's a shutdown corner in the making. He's my third highest CB behind only Claiborne and Kirkpatrick.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

I would like to see four of the first six picks (if BB retains all of the picks in the first three rounds) go to defensive backs, primarily corners, and pass rushers.

Todays receivers are getting taller and faster and the days of the 5-9 or 5-10 corners are fast disappearing. You used to hear that, sure, he may be small but he has great leaping ability.

That doesnt cut it anymore because the receivers of today are also taller and can jump just as well and even higher.

That being said, I would lean towards corners like Stephen Gilmore at 6.0 or Dre Kirkpatrick at 6-2. Kirkpatrick may slide a bit due to his marijuana arrest.

I have seen Whitney Mercillus' name being mentioned quite often by some of the so called experts as a probable Pats pick for a pass rusher.

I am not so sure if he would be the right pick. Fletcher Cox would be my pick but my guess is that he wont be there for the Pats late first round picks.

One other DB that caught my eye is safety Harrison Smith from Notre Dame who is said to have a very high Football IQ. That has always been a Belichick type player.

And Smith has great size, too, for a safety at 6-2 214 lbs. Some have called him the best safety in the draft.

Anway, I am far from an expert and only can go by what I read and hear of these players. And as usual, its a hit or miss game, the draft.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

I could see a scenario where Kirkpatrick and Jenkins are available at 27. Would you pull the trigger?

Kirkpatrick YES Jenkins NO

Jenkins is listed at 5-10 and IMO the days of corners under 6 foot tall are slowly fading away. I cringed every time the Pats picked one of those 5-9 corners and told us all about their great leaping abilities.

I used to laugh at that because what they seemed to forget is that the receivers that they were trying to cover were taller by a few inches, or more, and they too had great leaping abilities.

Corners should be at least 6 feet tall, or even more, to keep pace with the height increases of wide receivers in the NFL.

 

[patsinthesnow]

People have to remember just because a CB class is deep doesn't mean there are 2-3 shutdown CBs in it, lol, let's be real, there is only 1 true shutdown CB in the NFL.

2011 NFL Draft:

1. Patrick Peterson- he had Devin Hester return ability but was very iffy coverage wise, he was touted shutdown CB

2. Prince Amukamara- Projected as a top 10-15 pick, he was pretty bad his rookie year. Got beat often, didn't see much playing time.

3. Jimmy Smith-very inconsistent, beat often, below average rookie year.

4. Ras-I-Dowling-incomplete obviously

5. Aaron Williams-very bad rookie year

Richard Sherman and Sterling Moore played better than most of those guys.
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2010 NFL Draft:

1. Joe Haden-a top 10 CB, good pick.

2. Kareem Jackson-awful rookie year, average 2nd year.

3. Kyle Wilson-awful rookie year, average 2nd year.

4. Devin Mccourty-stud rookie year, mess 2nd year.

5. Patrick Robinson-bad rookie year, average 2nd year.
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The 2009 draft is even worse than both of those for the top CBs.

So the best CB of the last two drafts of the top 5 drafted from each class is Joe Haden, and even he isn't that great. Arguably Sherman look's like he'll be the best in time, and he was a 5th round pick.

This is why I'm against a CB in the first two rounds (the best available CB in round 3 I'm down with) because I'm not sure he would be better than what we have, which is alot of young talent at the position.

Who's to say Jenkins, Kirkpatrick, Gilmore, and Flemming won't play poorly like most of these CBs their rookie year?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Acc to texan fans, Kareem Jackson had a awful 1st and 2nd year.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Acc to texan fans, Kareem Jackson had a awful 1st and 2nd year.

I wasn't familiar with him, assumed he improved since the defense was so good, but he was terrible his rookie year so I believe it when you say he was awful his 2nd year.

It just adds to my sentiment not wanting ANOTHER CB in rounds 1-2. Even the 2008 NFL draft was shaky (Leodis Mckelvin, DR Cromartie, Aqib Talib, Mike Jenkins, Antoine Cason, Brandon Flowers)

 

[jmt57]

Have I missed something but where is Claiborne, Morris ?

Long gone!

He should go top 5. If not he won't get past 10, no way he pulls an Amukamura.

I was just listening to the radio and the host had Greg Cosell on for an interview. I thought it was interesting that Cosell said he considered Stephon Gilmore to be a better corner than Morris Claiborne, who most people are predicting to go #4 or #5 overall.

If for some reason Gilmore was to still be available would the Pats be interested, even though they already have McCourty, Dowling and Arrington on the roster? I know the McCourty-to-safety topic has been beaten to death, but in that hypothetical scenario it would seem to be worth considering (depending on who else was also available, of course).

Stephon Gilmore's Skills in Zone Defense Fit Perfectly for Patriots If He Falls in Draft - New England Patriots - NESN.com