Two Rookie Linebackers Is Enough

mgteich · Aug 13, 2008

I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

PatsWickedPissah · Aug 13, 2008

mgteich said:
I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

That is the most probable outcome, however should someone, say Guyton play STs very well, Alexander could be at risk as he's shown little playing the LB position, so has little upside. I thought Izzy at risk last year. Didn't happen. I find it very difficult as a fan to see how well or not well guys play on STs in camp. Too few snaps.

fair catch fryar · Aug 13, 2008

Where does Adam Seward fit into this? I have a reliable source that tells me he wants to play for the Pats!!

All in all, I too am much more happy with the state of the linebackers going into this season as opposed to last year at this time.

Rob0729 · Aug 13, 2008

mgteich said:
I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

Although I don't think there needs to be a quota of rookies on the 53 man roster in terms of LBs, I fully expect Redd, Ruud, and Guyton to be cut and hopefully placed on the practice squad. I know Guyton is the "It" guy right now, but he really looks like a developmental guy who doesn't need to occupy a roster spot.

RussFrancis · Aug 13, 2008

It seems some are not overly impressed with Hobson, thought I havent seen any of his work so far. But apparently he may be struggling making the transition from OLB with NY to the inside with our guys. Could be an 'old dog new-trick or a square peg-round hole situation. We'll have to see. But I dont know that he's a lock to make the rotation.

Ive seen Guyton enough to like his energy and his athleticism. He may be a keeper as an inside backer. I hear people talk some about Redd, and his combo of size and potential as an OLB. But he may be a practice squadder. Izzo is getting up there in age, and you cant help but wonder if a 34 year old STer will be kept around at the expense of losing future potential. Its gonna be interesting. I have a feeling there will be cuts and keeps that many of us didnt see coming.

ctpatsfan77 · Aug 13, 2008

mgteich said:
I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

Actually, right now, what I expect is Guyton makes the 53, Redd goes to the PS, and Ruud ends up on IR.

But what truly amazes me is the possibility that, say, five years from now, most of these guys could be the Pats' starting LBs. [Not will, just could.]

14thDragon · Aug 13, 2008

mgteich said:
I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth.
I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

Well, I thought the goal this year was to "Get younger and faster on defense." Linebacker is the best place to get that youth and speed. You vastly overate the "experience" factor.

Why would bringing back Seau be an "good" upgrade, but cutting Alexander for Guyton or Redd be a "bad" upgrade? Was cutting Justin Rodgers last year in order to keep Chad Brown a "good" upgrade in your book?

hy limit to two new rookies. I prefer getting the best 53 on the roster. Not just for this year but for the next three. Alexander, never took that next step forward and is already cut in my book, Izzo is purely a special teamer, Hobson, the jury is still out on. I would hate to lose Izzo becuase he has done a lot off the field and a professional on it; but if a rookie shows the potential to in 2 years be a rotation guy, I vote Izzo off the island.

If Hobson is still struggling after the third preseason game, then I would say bringing in Seau is a good idea. Otherwise, let him keep surfing.

Sicilian · Aug 13, 2008

fair catch fryar said:
Where does Adam Seward fit into this? I have a reliable source that tells me he wants to play for the Pats!!

All in all, I too am much more happy with the state of the linebackers going into this season as opposed to last year at this time.

I think we're essentially in the same place as last year. Instead of our starting four being Vrabel - Bruschi - Thomas - Colvin, we've got Vrabel - Bruschi - Mayo - Thomas.

Thomas is better outside, but we've got a rookie in the middle and Bruschi a year older.

We have the potential to be better if Woods continues to improve, Crable plays well situationally, Hobson picks up the system, and/or Seau comes back. If ALL of those things happen, we have the best and deepest linebacking group in the league. If NONE of those things happen, we're one injury away from a huge hole in our defense.

Personally, I think we're somewhere in the middle. If Seau came back I'd feel a lot better this year, but I'm optimistic either way.

Mark Morse · Aug 13, 2008

mgteich said:
I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

You will never pass either Redd or Guyton through waivers to get on the practice squad. Guyton is running with the second team ILB and played some the other night with Bruschi. Everyone was wowed by the big hit Mayo made on Rice. It was Guyton who plugged the hole where the play was suppossed to go and forced Rice to change direction right into the waiting arms of Mayo (the tape doesn't lie). Hobson is not "getting it" in his adjustment to ILB. Guyton can also play OLB too. I say Guyton makes it over Hobson. Izzo might stay because of the injury to Aiken. Aiken was being tried at the protector poistion on the punt team which is usually Izzo. Can Alexander play that position? Izzo, Redd and Alexander are fighting it out for the last two spots. Seau is a mid season replacement for somone that gets hurt. He is not ready to play yet.

PatsWickedPissah · Aug 13, 2008

Mark Morse said:
You will never pass either Redd or Guyton through waivers to get on the practice squad. Guyton is running with the second team ILB and played some the other night with Bruschi. Everyone was wowed by the big hit Mayo made on Rice. It was Guyton who plugged the hole where the play was suppossed to go and forced Rice to change direction right into the waiting arms of Mayo (the tape doesn't lie). Hobson is not "getting it" in his adjustment to ILB. Guyton can also play OLB too. I say Guyton makes it over Hobson. Izzo might stay because of the injury to Aiken. Aiken was being tried at the protector poistion on the punt team which is usually Izzo. Can Alexander play that position? Izzo, Redd and Alexander are fighting it out for the last two spots. Seau is a mid season replacement for somone that gets hurt. He is not ready to play yet.

Interesting. Agree completely with Seau's possible 2008 Shadow Roster role.

Mark - look at the later comments & Box's ratings in the interesting AD ILB linebacker thread. I'm not seeing Redd on the team. Guyton still has to continue to bring it for the next couple weeks. Hobson could suddenly Grok the D and stay. Lots of competition this camp.

VrabelMayeWin · Aug 13, 2008

I don't think it has anything to do with "rookie" LB. It's a question of how many can play LB if needed. Mayo can clerly play so he's not really a "rookie" in the sense of having to lern more than play. In a lesser role that looks like it may apply to Crable too. Redd, Guyton, it will come down to Belichick's confidence in playing them if injuries hit.

italia44 · Aug 13, 2008

Mark Morse said:
You will never pass either Redd or Guyton through waivers to get on the practice squad. Guyton is running with the second team ILB and played some the other night with Bruschi. Everyone was wowed by the big hit Mayo made on Rice. It was Guyton who plugged the hole where the play was suppossed to go and forced Rice to change direction right into the waiting arms of Mayo (the tape doesn't lie). Hobson is not "getting it" in his adjustment to ILB. Guyton can also play OLB too. I say Guyton makes it over Hobson. Izzo might stay because of the injury to Aiken. Aiken was being tried at the protector poistion on the punt team which is usually Izzo. Can Alexander play that position? Izzo, Redd and Alexander are fighting it out for the last two spots. Seau is a mid season replacement for somone that gets hurt. He is not ready to play yet.

I'm praying that BB goes against form and keeps Guyton/Redd over Hobson/Alexander.

DW Toys · Aug 13, 2008

ctpatsfan77 said:
Actually, right now, what I expect is Guyton makes the 53, Redd goes to the PS, and Ruud ends up on IR.

But what truly amazes me is the possibility that, say, five years from now, most of these guys could be the Pats' starting LBs. [Not will, just could.]

I think Rudd IR and Alexander and Izzo the "hard" cuts.
Izzo is just not diverse enough to save a roster spot. Maybe that is Guyton. Redd is raw but this kid has more upside than Rudd , Alexander or Izzo. He can run and ST might be his shot.
DW Toys

JSn · Aug 13, 2008

High hopes for Guyton here.

I think if there's a risk of Izzo being cut, he may retire a Patriot. Anyone else see that as a probability?

Love to see Mayo, Crable, Guyton in there. That's a serious injection of youth and athleticism. And those guys working alongside the tremendous o-assessment skills of AD, Bruschi and maybe later on Seau, would very likely make us the scariest LB corps in the league.

JustWinBrady · Aug 13, 2008

italia44 said:
I'm praying that BB goes against form and keeps Guyton/Redd over Hobson/Alexander.

I would agree, if BB's plan was to get younger and more athletic on defense, this is the way to go. I would hope that BB learned his lesson last year when he waived justin rodgers and garrett mills and they were picked up by dallas and the vikings. No way Guyton and Redd make it thru waivers so they can be put on the practice squad. Tough decisions to be made. I'm waiting on who will get red shirted over the next couple of pre-season games where a rookie will come up with a phantom injury that will place them on IR for the season. o'connell, rudd, guyton, redd are all candidates.

14thDragon · Aug 13, 2008

DW Toys said:
I think Rudd IR and Alexander and Izzo the "hard" cuts.
Izzo is just not diverse enough to save a roster spot. Maybe that is Guyton. Redd is raw but this kid has more upside than Rudd , Alexander or Izzo. He can run and ST might be his shot.
DW Toys

Rudd I could see to the PS. He is likely not going to be a guy someone is looking to pick off waivers. He has not really done anything or generate intrest. Mostly becuase he has been hurt. So leave him on the PS so he can actually practice with the scout team this year.

Rob0729 · Aug 13, 2008

Mark Morse said:
You will never pass either Redd or Guyton through waivers to get on the practice squad. Guyton is running with the second team ILB and played some the other night with Bruschi. Everyone was wowed by the big hit Mayo made on Rice. It was Guyton who plugged the hole where the play was suppossed to go and forced Rice to change direction right into the waiting arms of Mayo (the tape doesn't lie). Hobson is not "getting it" in his adjustment to ILB. Guyton can also play OLB too. I say Guyton makes it over Hobson. Izzo might stay because of the injury to Aiken. Aiken was being tried at the protector poistion on the punt team which is usually Izzo. Can Alexander play that position? Izzo, Redd and Alexander are fighting it out for the last two spots. Seau is a mid season replacement for somone that gets hurt. He is not ready to play yet.

I don't think it is true that you will never get Redd or Guyton through waivers. Both were undrafted free agents. That means every team in the league felt they weren't worth a sixth or seventh round pick to get. What they do in the preseason may increase their value, but it isn't neccessarily the case.

I don't think Guyton makes it over Hobson unless Hobson struggles badly with the systen for the rest of the preseason. Hobson can be an immediate contributor if he knows the system why Guyton is a developmental player.

Every year it seems that people fall in love with these young bubble guys who look great playing against lesser talent who ultimately end up on the practice squad or not clearing waivers. The most notable example was Patrick Cobbs. The guy led the team in rushing in the 2006 preseason and ended up getting traded to the Steelers that netted the Pats no draft picks because the Steelers cut him after the first week.

I think the numbers game are against Guyton and Redd making the 53 man roster.

tombonneau · Aug 13, 2008

mgteich said:
I'd be happy to upgrade by bringing in Seau or another veteran, but I don't think we need more youth. I expect we'll add another rookie or two next year. For now, we have solid 9 man squad, all with their roles.

Vrabel, Thomas, Woods, Crable
Bruschi, Mayo, Hobson, Alexander
Izzo (Special teams only)

I believe that Redd, Ruud and Guyton are competing for Practice Squad jobs.

Respectfully disagree. I think Guyton could easily bump Alexander. Izzo I'm not so sure about because I can't properly evaluate his ST contributions, intangibles, etc.

Reason being I don't think there is anyway Guyton makes it to the PS. Alexander has very limited upside, and I think he is already there. GG shows starter potential and based on limited ST playing time looks like he could supplant Alexander in that role right now.

You could very well be right, but I think Alexander & GG are fighting for the same spot, and GG might have the edge right now.

Box_O_Rocks · Aug 13, 2008

Well mg, my post-preseason LB roster looks like this: Bruschi, Vrabel, Adalius, Mayo, Woods, Crable, Guyton, Alexander, Izzo.

Guyton started taking reps alongside Mayo in the third defensive series against the Ravens starting offense. He played into the third, then started alternating with Hobson the rest of the game. BB had a good long look - I think he liked the progress.

I'd like to shelter Redd, in limited reps he looked good on Special Teams and trainable at OLB. If he survives waivers he's going on the Practice Squad.

PatsFan37 · Aug 13, 2008

tombonneau said:
Respectfully disagree. I think Guyton could easily bump Alexander. Izzo I'm not so sure about because I can't properly evaluate his ST contributions, intangibles, etc.

Reason being I don't think there is anyway Guyton makes it to the PS. Alexander has very limited upside, and I think he is already there. GG shows starter potential and based on limited ST playing time looks like he could supplant Alexander in that role right now.

You could very well be right, but I think Alexander & GG are fighting for the same spot, and GG might have the edge right now.

I agree. Based on what I've seen so far, Guyton takes Alexander's spot. Three games to go.

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