Can we now start to think the whole “Kraft is cheap” was more of a Belichick philosophy?

mike_usagisan · Mar 12, 2026

My kids think I'm cheap. I think I'm shrewd. It's probably somewhere in the middle... maybe "chewd" or "shreep".

maust · Mar 12, 2026

Wozzy said:
I was talking about the two coaches Bob hired prior to Belichick. Bob bought the team in 1994...

...and Parcells was hired in 1993, Kraft Hired one coach before BB not two

Wozzy said:
Now the owners have successfully blocked the public release of the 2026 NFLPA report cards after winning a grievance that claimed the surveys violated the Collective Bargaining Agreement by "disparaging NFL clubs and individuals." While the NFLPA is still allowed to conduct the surveys and share results internally with players and teams, it cannot publish the findings publicly. Who do you think headed this campaign up?

It's a shame...

The owners did not successfully block the public release of the 2026 NFLPA report cards, they blocked the NFLPA from releasing them. All that remained was for individual players to pass them out to the media which ofc they immediately did. The results are readily available, in varying degrees of detail from overall team grades to detailed grades for individual teams, via a simple web search and were widely published at the time. Not sure how you missed them.

Wozzy · Mar 12, 2026

Rob0729 said:
I said free agency started in 1993 and it took like half a decade for it to really start. You talked about from 1994 and I pointed out how most of the 1990s, few teams were spending on players other than their own players. I am not gaslighting you. You didn't comprehend what I was saying.

Player movement in the NFL took off immediately when free agency was implemented... not years later.

In the first free agency period (March–July 1993), 121 players switched teams, including 64 starters. High-profile moves included Reggie White (Eagles to Packers), Ronnie Lott (49ers to Raiders), Marcus Allen (Raiders to Chiefs) and Vinny Testaverde (Buccaneers to Browns). I didn't accept what you were saying because you're wrong.

Rob0729 said:
Kraft was trying to build a new state of the art stadium with his own money for most of the time Pete Carroll was head coach. So whether the players thought he was cheap or not, he clearly wasn't.

And the 2026 NFLPA survey was actually a better survey for Kraft and the Pats and showed improvement in player satisfaction. I seriously doubt that Kraft was part of the people blocking it. If Kraft was trying to block it, he would have blocked previous years where they had really bad scores.

And I don't care how billionaires treat the millionaires that work for them. I am not going to worry about the work conditions of a guy making tens of millions of dollars a year unless it affects his play on the field. If they don't like it, they can sign elsewhere when their contract is up. I will save my accountability concerns for the billionaires who have children working in sweatshops or factory workers working in unnecessarily dangerous conditions. I don't care that the carpet in the Patriots' locker room is worn and torn in a few places.

Nobody mentioned the stadium, we're talking about what the NFLPA voted on and what Pete Carroll said. And like I already said, I don't care about player feelings on contracts, only what can affect player performance on the field. I'm a fan, winning is all I care about.

The Pats aren't spending money because Bill is gone, they're spending money because they have cap space. And frankly there are league rules that insist teams spend up to a certain amount of the cap, so it's hardly altruistic.

I like Kraft, he did right by the region when he kept the Patriots in Massachusetts. I never called Bob cheap... employees did.

Stop blaming fans for what other people said, or suggesting it is our imagination or laughably Bill's fault. You BB haters will be blaming him for whatever goes wrong here for the next decade and whining that unprecedented winning under his watch could have been better. Move on with your life. The bad man is gone.

maust · Mar 12, 2026

mike_usagisan said:
My kids think I'm cheap. I think I'm shrewd. It's probably somewhere in the middle... maybe "chewd" or "shreep".

I'd go with 'frugal' but then I think we already have too many words

TommyD4207 · Mar 12, 2026

maust said:
I'd go with 'frugal' but then I think we already have too many words

"Thrifty" is another good one.

Wozzy · Mar 12, 2026

maust said:
...and Parcells was hired in 1993, Kraft Hired one coach before BB not two

Good grief... so the two coaches Bob employed before Belichick.

It doesn't make cash spending any less factual... or matter at all.

maust said:
The owners did not successfully block the public release of the 2026 NFLPA report cards, they blocked the NFLPA from releasing them. All that remained was for individual players to pass them out to the media which ofc they immediately did. The results are readily available, in varying degrees of detail from overall team grades to detailed grades for individual teams, via a simple web search and were widely published at the time. Not sure how you missed them.

You just repeated back to me exactly what I said above. That's not a flex.

The NFL issued a memo to all teams advising them not to comment on the leaked results, calling the survey "neither reliable nor scientifically valid." However, the leak underscores that the private nature of the survey does not prevent information from becoming public, as thousands of players have access to the results. The NFLPA maintains that the surveys will continue, but the public release of results is now prohibited under the arbitrator’s decision.

mike_usagisan · Mar 12, 2026

Usually whenever anyone wants to use the "Kraft is cheap" card, I ask, who should we have spent Kraft's money on? Pierce wasn't leaving the Colts. Hendrickson seems pretty risky. I guess maybe Mafe or one of those EDGE guys, but we might do better in the draft. The more I read about Romeo, the more I like him on our team. I would have preferred Edwards, but the guard we got looks good if we can keep him healthy.

Seems like they're being smart and trying to build a solid team. But they're also not done yet.

Maybe when people say something stupid, just ignore it?

Wozzy · Mar 12, 2026

mike_usagisan said:
Usually whenever anyone wants to use the "Kraft is cheap" card, I ask, who should we have spent Kraft's money on? Pierce wasn't leaving the Colts. Hendrickson seems pretty risky. I guess maybe Mafe or one of those EDGE guys, but we might do better in the draft. The more I read about Romeo, the more I like him on our team. I would have preferred Edwards, but the guard we got looks good if we can keep him healthy.

Seems like they're being smart and trying to build a solid team. But they're also not done yet.

Maybe when people say something stupid, just ignore it?

I agree with not overpaying on these players... maybe I'm cheap?

maust · Mar 12, 2026

Wozzy said:
You just repeated back to me exactly what I said above. That's not a flex.

The NFL issued a memo to all teams advising them not to comment on the leaked results, calling the survey "neither reliable nor scientifically valid." However, the leak underscores that the private nature of the survey does not prevent information from becoming public, as thousands of players have access to the results. The NFLPA maintains that the surveys will continue, but the public release of results is now prohibited under the arbitrator’s decision.

I wasn't attempting to 'flex' (sigh) and we most assuredly did not say the same thing. You said the 'Now the owners have successfully blocked the public release of the 2026 NFLPA report cards' I pointed out they did not. In fact their ridiculous grievance and the ensuing 'block' only served to heighten people's interest in the inevitably leaked results. That isn't semantics, it's my entire point; the league shot themselves in the foot drawing further attention to the results.

Wozzy · Mar 12, 2026

maust said:
I wasn't attempting to 'flex' (sigh) and we most assuredly did not say the same thing. You said the 'Now the owners have successfully blocked the public release of the 2026 NFLPA report cards' I pointed out they did not. In fact their ridiculous grievance and the ensuing 'block' only served to heighten people's interest in the inevitably leaked results. That isn't semantics, it's my entire point; the league shot themselves in the foot drawing further attention to the results.

They've only just tried to keep these rating sealed. Next they'll start punishing teams or players for releasing them. We'll see how successful they are.

maust · Mar 12, 2026

Wozzy said:
They've only just tried to keep these rating sealed. Next they'll start punishing teams or players for releasing them. We'll see how successful they are.

They will be no more successful at stopping any one of roughly 2000 active NFLPA players from releasing their copies than they were this year and trying to find and punish the leakers would just be more Captain Queeg type BS to draw further attention to the results. One would like to think Big Shield is smart enough to avoid getting hit repeatedly with the same tire tool but if past evidence is taken into account the drubbings will continue until morale improves

zoostation · Mar 12, 2026

Rob0729 said:
If you were a fan at the time, Belichick was rightfully hailed a genius for signing all those players for the same price other teams used to sign one or two high priced free agents. That was a case of Belichick bargain shopping for older players with a little juice left in the tank or young guys who hadn't emerged. It changed the way people approached free agency. But it wasn't an example of Belichick spending a lot in free agency.

Yeah surrrrrre. The Patriots were the top spenders in 2001. They don't come close to sniffing a championship without that haul.

Triumph · Mar 12, 2026

Rob0729 said:
Kraft has been getting crap for years for not spending in free agency and only being active in free agency once every three years. But this year is disproving this theory. Sure the Patriots aren’t spending like they did last year, but they have been as active this week signing talent as almost any other team in the league.

Whether or not you like the players they added, you have to admit they have aggressively addressed the biggest weaknesses and needs of the team from last year. And by all accounts, they are not done and are actively seeking trades. They aren’t just sitting back and waiting for the draft and whatever left overs are left in free agency come the end of March as we have seen in other years.

The evidence points to being cheap was more of a Belichick thing. Look at the Belichick coaching staffs and front office personnel as proof. Belichick had one of the smallest staffs and didn’t believe in creating departments like analytics or sports science. Could you image Belichick having a passing game coordinator like Vrabel has? Many years, his coordinators had position coaching responsibilities on top of their own responsibilities. Patricia was OC and o-line coach Belichick’s last year. Granted Thomas Brown is TEs coach on top of passing game coordinator.

Since Wolf took over GM responsibilities, he has been expanding the scouting department where Belichick ran a bare bones operation.

The Patriots could go back next year to their old selves and be totally inactive in free agency after being aggressive these past two years. But I tend to doubt it. Assuming they have another successful draft and these free agency signings are successful, they will have less holes to fill next year. So they may be less aggressive to sign as many players, but they may still go after players.

Belichick had a lot of success. So you can’t trash his philosophy too much. But a lot of years, Belichick the genius coach and Brady the GOAT QB had to overcome lack of talent. But I get the feeling that Belichick was the “cheap” one.

Belichick was gone in 2024 and Kraft pinched pennies.

TheRainMaker · Mar 12, 2026

zoostation said:
Yeah surrrrrre. The Patriots were the top spenders in 2001. They don't come close to sniffing a championship without that haul.

Talk about Google AI creating revisionist history. The Pats signed old/washed up players and were regarded as the "least talented" team going into the 2001 season predicted to come in last place. And they would've missed the playoffs had Bledsoe stayed healthy/Brady not been any good.

Rob0729 · Mar 12, 2026

zoostation said:
Yeah surrrrrre. The Patriots were the top spenders in 2001. They don't come close to sniffing a championship without that haul.

You are not listing contract values. Yes, they signed a lot of players. They didn't sign them for much. For example:

- Mike Vrabel got a $225k signing bonus that year on a three year contract (total cash payout of $770k in 2001).
- Bryan Cox got an one year $800k contract.
- Roman Phifer signed an one year veteran minimum deal at $500k
- Antonwain Smith signed an one year deal for $477k plus $25k signing bonus with $677k in incentives
- Terrell Buckley signed an one year, $500k contract
- David Patten signed a three year deal for just under $4 million and only had a cap hit of $700k and under $2 million paid out.

Yes, they added a lot players in 2001. Many of them had huge impact. But a large number of them were playing on the veteran minimum or not a heck of a lot more. It was a brilliant job by Belichick, but he went shopping for hidden gems at Building 19 (for those of you who are old enough to remember) not at Target.

zoostation · Mar 12, 2026

TheRainMaker said:
Talk about Google AI creating revisionist history. The Pats signed old/washed up players and were regarded as the "least talented" team going into the 2001 season predicted to come in last place. And they would've missed the playoffs had Bledsoe stayed healthy/Brady not been any good.

Besides Huard, who became a veteran mentor to Brady early on, which one of these players didn't contribute to the championship run, in your mind??

2001 Patriot Free Agents:
CB Terrell Buckley: Signed to strengthen the secondary.
G Mike Compton: Provided stability on the offensive line.
LB Bryan Cox: Provided veteran leadership to the defense.
FB Marc Edwards: Signed from Cleveland.
QB Damon Huard: Signed from Miami
LB Larry Izzo: Stolen from Miami
WR David Patten: Provided a playmaker at receiver.
LB Roman Phifer
DE Anthony Pleasant: Added depth and experience to the defensive line.
RB Antowain Smith: Key offseason addition to the backfield.
LB Mike Vrabel: Signed from Pittsburgh; became a defensive cornerstone.
DL Stephen Neal: Signed as a free agent from a wrestling background

Rob0729 · Mar 12, 2026

Wozzy said:
Player movement in the NFL took off immediately when free agency was implemented... not years later.

In the first free agency period (March–July 1993), 121 players switched teams, including 64 starters. High-profile moves included Reggie White (Eagles to Packers), Ronnie Lott (49ers to Raiders), Marcus Allen (Raiders to Chiefs) and Vinny Testaverde (Buccaneers to Browns). I didn't accept what you were saying because you're wrong.

Nobody mentioned the stadium, we're talking about what the NFLPA voted on and what Pete Carroll said. And like I already said, I don't care about player feelings on contracts, only what can affect player performance on the field. I'm a fan, winning is all I care about.

The Pats aren't spending money because Bill is gone, they're spending money because they have cap space. And frankly there are league rules that insist teams spend up to a certain amount of the cap, so it's hardly altruistic.

I like Kraft, he did right by the region when he kept the Patriots in Massachusetts. I never called Bob cheap... employees did.

Stop blaming fans for what other people said, or suggesting it is our imagination or laughably Bill's fault. You BB haters will be blaming him for whatever goes wrong here for the next decade and whining that unprecedented winning under his watch could have been better. Move on with your life. The bad man is gone.

Other than the players you listed, who left for big money during those years. Back then, players wanted to get franchise tagged because they knew they could make more with the franchise tag than in free agency (at least for the short term).

And who cares what the NFLPA voted on? Every year, they vote to give Kraft an F on his plane, but no owner has spent more on plane flights for their players than Bob Kraft. None.

And when did I blame other fans for anything? You die hard Belichick defenders are the softest, most insecure people here. You take any remote slight against Belichick as an personal affront to you. It is the same BS we see in politics. I have repeatedly praised Belichick in this thread for some genius work acquiring players who impacted Super Bowl seasons on the cheap. But yet you, consistently call me a Belichick hater.

For the record, the die hard Brady defenders call be a Brady hater because I give Belichick more credit than Brady for the first half of the Patriots dynasty. I don't hate Belichick. He is the GOAT. He wasn't perfect. He made a lot of mistakes especially at GM. To recognize those mistakes, is hating on him.

This is the problem with both groups. You don't read what people write. You take anything can conceive as negative against your guy as a personal attack of you. And you throw around the same wild accusations you claim people like me are saying about you towards people like me.

And let's face it. You don't like Kraft and a lot of it has to do primarily because how it ended with Belichick.

Rob0729 · Mar 12, 2026

zoostation said:
Besides Huard, who became a veteran mentor to Brady early on, which one of these players didn't contribute to the championship run, in your mind??

2001 Patriot Free Agents:
CB Terrell Buckley: Signed to strengthen the secondary.
G Mike Compton: Provided stability on the offensive line.
LB Bryan Cox: Provided veteran leadership to the defense.
FB Marc Edwards: Signed from Cleveland.
QB Damon Huard: Signed from Miami
LB Larry Izzo: Stolen from Miami
WR David Patten: Provided a playmaker at receiver.
LB Roman Phifer
DE Anthony Pleasant: Added depth and experience to the defensive line.
RB Antowain Smith: Key offseason addition to the backfield.
LB Mike Vrabel: Signed from Pittsburgh; became a defensive cornerstone.
DL Stephen Neal: Signed as a free agent from a wrestling background

Most of these players were considered at this time in 2001 as washed up hasbeen or players who didn't really do anything in their career to warrant a decent contract. Belichick and Pioli were smart enough to see that these older players still had value and could be impactful if used correctly. They also found guys who they saw something, but hadn't been tapped elsewhere. And they got them at bargain basement prices.

Pape · Mar 12, 2026

"Cheap"

Is RKK "Cheap"? was BB "Cheap"? eh, does it really matter?

I am sure I have said it in the past about both of them... in essence though, the Patriots (by extension it includes the ownership and/or the current managerial team) are not cheap... what they are is fiscally responsible...

I believe under the Belichick tenure the team did develop a budget process which was used to create spending caps relative to the current economics of the NFL (the Cap) for each specific position relative to the needs of the team year in year out... This framework was used as guidance for contract dollars when signing or re-signing players... seasonal variations that take into consideration the loss of talent that the team was unable to replace through the draft or free agency - which is why every few years the Pats tend to make a splash in Free Agency, like they did last year...

I do think that the Patriots use this framework to keep spending in check... It may look at times like we have spent big, or are up against the cap, in reality the team never is... there are always avenues to adjust contracts to drop the cap numbers if it is needed... since the Patriots exercise a strict fiscal policy in the front office, that does not happen all too often... we are more likely to cut a player vs alter their deals... we spent "big" last year, and basically shed a number of those "big contracts" or didn't re-sign players this year...

The team within the next two seasons, will have two major deals to renegotiate - Gonzales and Maye... While there is some flexibility there (5th year options) eventually both will need to be addressed... When the contracts come due in a few seasons, then we will know who really controls the money at 1 Patriot Place... and if the Pats are truly "cheap"...

if Gonzales walks or is traded, cheap would fit... and we would know who is responsible...

zoostation · Mar 12, 2026

CB Terrell Buckley: Skilled DB, 3 stints with the Pats
G Mike Compton: Could use him today. 2 championships with the Pats
LB Bryan Cox: Was the spark of the defense that dominated the playoffs and the Super Bowl
FB Marc Edwards: Stud fullback
QB Damon Huard: Signed from Miami
LB Larry Izzo: Special teams ace, 7 years with the Pats
WR David Patten: Clutch receiver. Huge catch in the AFCCG, 3 championships with Pats
LB Roman Phifer: Human tackle machine, 3 championships
DE Anthony Pleasant: Beast on the line. Smart BB-type player. Long career
RB Antowain Smith: 1150 yards on the ground, huge in the playoffs
LB Mike Vrabel: Just win, baby
DL Stephen Neal: Signed as a free agent from a wrestling background

459	20K

7	546

17	737

Can we now start to think the whole “Kraft is cheap” was more of a Belichick philosophy?

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