Mac: "I want to be coached harder"

venecol said:

Bourne is the only one we heard complains from.

Mac said it was a collaboration between coaches and him. We know Mac played mostly out of shot gun in college (check). We know Mac likes RPOs (check). We know Mac wants to go vertical (initially check, now he's complaining about short game).

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Bourne, Mac, David Andrews, hunter Henry, Myers just to name a few all took issues not so much with changing the offense but with the confusion on it..

Fast forward to the 2022 NFL patriots season is what we are witnessing.

venecol said:

Bourne is the only one we heard complains from.

Mac said it was a collaboration between coaches and him. We know Mac played mostly out of shot gun in college (check). We know Mac likes RPOs (check). We know Mac wants to go vertical (initially check, now he's complaining about short game).

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Except there weren't RPOs in the offense that was scrapped. And Jones didn't throw a lot of 50-50 balls in college which he seemed to not be happy about right away. The offense they went into the season with was very different than what they run in Bama. Only very superficial similarities.

But I think it is funny. You believe when Jones takes responsibility for the offensive problems is because he has been coached to say that and doesn't really believe it, but when he says he is on board with the offense and had a say in it you take his word on it. I love your consistency in your rationalization.

And he is complaining that is all the Pats run so defenses don't need to worry about the deep part of the field. But Mike Lombardi said it best on his podcast this week. The Pats don't have an offensive strategy, Patricia is just calling a bunch of plays. And Lombardi is Bill's guy and would defend their coaching.

Rob0729 said:

And he is complaining that is all the Pats run so defenses don't need to worry about the deep part of the field. But Mike Lombardi said it best on his podcast this week. The Pats don't have an offensive strategy, Patricia is just calling a bunch of plays. And Lombardi is Bill's guy and would defend their coaching.

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He had Thornton open on a deep route and over threw him by 15 yards. Same thing happened last week. He had a wide open Bourne in the EZ waiving his hands, didn't take the shot.

He needs to stop complaining and focus on playing better. Bill says plays are there, they need to be more consistent.

venecol said:

He had Thornton open on a deep route and over threw him by 15 yards. Same thing happened last week. He had a wide open Bourne in the EZ waiving his hands, didn't take the shot.

He needs to stop complaining and focus on playing better. Bill says plays are there, they need to be more consistent.

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That's true, we have to wonder the line play is so bad.. we know there is no offensive scheme. Mac's timing has to be definitely off. He so used to not having the time to throw.. the rare times he does he's over throwing guys..

venecol said:

He had Thornton open on a deep route and over threw him by 15 yards. Same thing happened last week. He had a wide open Bourne in the EZ waiving his hands, didn't take the shot.

He needs to stop complaining and focus on playing better. Bill says plays are there, they need to be more consistent.

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I don't like him complaining in public, but we all can admit Patricia is a disaster of an OC and o-line coach. When Lombardi is saying it, it probably means that Belichick has told Lombardi the same thing.

And Jones was being chased around last week with his o-linemen just standing around. He probably should have looked down the field and thrown it, but it wasn't all on him for that play. Yes, the o-linemen cannot turn around and engage in a block, but they could have blocked the pursuit lanes to give Jones a second to set and throw. And Zolak said the same thing today.

Personally, I thought it was a risky throwing it since there were two defenders about 3-5 yards in front of him throwing the ball and ran. But in hindsight, it might have been a shot worth taking. Of course if he actually had time to set and throw which I am not sure he did.

venecol said:

He had Thornton open on a deep route and over threw him by 15 yards. Same thing happened last week. He had a wide open Bourne in the EZ waiving his hands, didn't take the shot.

He needs to stop complaining and focus on playing better. Bill says plays are there, they need to be more consistent.

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Bill is correct. I wish perpetual "fire Bill" and "Fat Matt sucks!" drum bangers on the forum would catch on as well. OL play and Mac's decision making and accuracy have been the problem. The root cause is never just one thing but people sure love to try and pin it on one thing for simplicity's sake. Plus everyone not named Rham and Damien having bad moments at the skill positions.

Rob0729 said:

I don't like him complaining in public, but we all can admit Patricia is a disaster of an OC and o-line coach. When Lombardi is saying it, it probably means that Belichick has told Lombardi the same thing.

And Jones was being chased around last week with his o-linemen just standing around. He probably should have looked down the field and thrown it, but it wasn't all on him for that play. Yes, the o-linemen cannot turn around and engage in a block, but they could have blocked the pursuit lanes to give Jones a second to set and throw. And Zolak said the same thing today.

Personally, I thought it was a risky throwing it since there were two defenders about 3-5 yards in front of him throwing the ball and ran. But in hindsight, it might have been a shot worth taking. Of course if he actually had time to set and throw which I am not sure he did.

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Same skill players as last season, add Parker. Line play is a microcosm of offensive scheme not being effective. The scheme is all about what a team wants to do on offense, and how they utilize thier skill players skill set to attack defenses.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

No doubt Patricia could be upgraded but fixing this OL is the biggest issue we have rn.

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Doesn't Patricia also have the dubious honor of being the OL coach? So actually we can blame almost everything on Patricia right now, if the OL is the root of the woes? He calls the wrong plays and he's a horrible OL coach this year?

Real fan 02 said:

Same skill players as last season, add Parker. Line play is a microcosm of offensive scheme not being effective. The scheme is all about what a team wants to do on offense, and how they utilize thier skill players skill set to attack defenses.

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People want to talk about Jones' regression. But he isn't the only one. Two of the Pats three best receivers last year have been near invisible this year in Henry and Bourne. Even in the games where the offense moved the ball and scored points, Bourne has been an afterthought. And Henry's product is sporadic. That has a lot to do with the play calling.

TheRainMaker said:

I’d like to know what Mac meant specifically by “coached harder”? It’s a pretty vague statement.

Or it’s just as simple as what I originally thought as he’s trying to say he wants better coaches.

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It's pretty clearly a shot at the coaching. He's trying to say - "Look I'll run through walls for the coaches if they want but whatever they tell me isn't working. Coach me harder cos I'm willing to put in the work!"

Basically as expected Joe Judge is an idiot in terms of preparing a young QB to think through the game and make the right decisions that help win games. One person who would make the ultimate QB coach, but I doubt would ever do it is Tom Brady, he is a MASTER of the pre-snap read. His thought process in reading defenses, manipulating defenses, and then getting his offense into the right play to beat it, and his film preparation well that's unmatched. Meanwhile bumbling Joe Judge nearly RUINED Daniel Jones in New York and I'm pretty sure he's pulling the same unhelpful BS to impede Jones' development as a QB.

Good article here on the job of a quarterback coach in the NFL.

Gruden said. "Sometimes, you have to have a guy who stays on top of those things, even if it's a six- to eight-minute individual period that you have; a guy who is great in the footwork, the timing, the precision of the passing game, the nuances you have to have; a guy who is translating things from the quarterback to the coordinator. The coordinator can't always be with the quarterback.

"Also, quarterbacks need a guy they can trust who they can vent with like, 'That Gruden, he's a pain in the ass. I don't like this.' Sometimes that's really important, too."

And a quote from Matt Ryan from the same article, "Those guys teach you so much," Ryan said. "They help you so much during the week in terms of getting prepared for games and having to break down stuff. They make your job a lot easier. They're a very good set of eyes on the field if they're down low. I've been fortunate to have some really good QB coaches."

Rob0729 said:

People want to talk about Jones' regression. But he isn't the only one. Two of the Pats three best receivers last year have been near invisible this year in Henry and Bourne. Even in the games where the offense moved the ball and scored points, Bourne has been an afterthought. And Henry's product is sporadic. That has a lot to do with the play calling.

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And coaching is inadequate to make sure these people are doing what they need yo do. Bourne did not have any problems lining up last year...now suddenly he does...

If I were BB, I'd be on the phone with Bill O'Brien today!

BB: You know I can't admit this publicly but I made a huge mistake using Matt Patricia as our OC. Can you come back to New England? I'll make it worth your while.
BOB: Well, I do like my situation at Alabama, but I do have a desire to return to pro coaching. Let me think about it.
BB: While you're thinking, can you think of a good Quarterbacks coach? Cos Joe Judge, bless his heart, is great at fetching coffee, but I'm afraid he's starting to frustrate our young gun, Mac Jones.
BOB: I might have an idea...
BB: Good talk. We'll go over numbers in the offseason. Damn, I really need to get out of this mess I made for myself. It'll be good to have you back.

I asked my friend who's a lifelong 49ers fan about his thoughts on McDaniel getting a HC without having experience calling plays and he told me he designed a lot of the plays during his time in SF.

Look how fast Miami picked up a newly installed offense with a guy who knows what he's doing. McDaniel has done a great job in his first year. Pats need someone like this running the offense, but as Charlie Weiss has said, he doesn't think Bill will poach anyone that is not "friends and family".

VJCPatriot said:

If I were BB, I'd be on the phone with Bill O'Brien today!

BB: You know I can't admit this publicly but I made a huge mistake using Matt Patricia as our OC. Can you come back to New England? I'll make it worth your while.
BOB: Well, I do like my situation at Alabama, but I do have a desire to return to pro coaching. Let me think about it.
BB: While you're thinking, can you think of a good Quarterbacks coach? Cos Joe Judge, bless his heart, is great at fetching coffee, but I'm afraid he's starting to frustrate our young gun, Mac Jones.
BOB: I might have an idea...
BB: Good talk. We'll go over numbers in the offseason. Damn, I really need to get out of this mess I made for myself. It'll be good to have you back.

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Rumor has it he doesn't want to poach O'Brien from Saban to keep their relationship.

TheRainMaker said:

Rumor has it he doesn't want to poach O'Brien from Saban to keep their relationship.

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Rumor also has it that O'Brien is "very interested" in returning to the pros. Link to Article by Justin Leger citing Albert Breer here. If going back to the NFL is a move that O'Brien was planning to make regardless, it wouldn't be 'poaching'. If O'Brien wants to go back to the pros why not the Patriots? I'm sure all of this can be settled with phone calls. This is all educated guesswork at this point.

I think there is something to this.

Really.

Is Weis busy? Available?

I'm not kidding.

(Charlie is also not chicken/stupid about calling running plays)

VJCPatriot said:

Meanwhile bumbling Joe Judge nearly RUINED Daniel Jones in New York and I'm pretty sure he's pulling the same unhelpful BS to impede Jones' development as a QB.

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While in college, Judge's gf cheated on him w/ a dude named Jones. He never got over it.

RobertWeathers said:

Bill gets credit for drafting, developing and surrounding Tom Brady with good coaches and players. He should also get credit for deciding to implement the offensive system in which the team thrived.

He should not get some credit for providing input/blame for game planning, scheming and play-calling.

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I'd like to ask.. does BB have to much power? He will always get credit deservedly so for allowing brady to become who he is.. he had significant contributions to us winning all those years.. but now that the championship runs are over does he in fact have too much power? No other GM would be able to do this in any other organization. That is like Andy Reid having his buddy that coached the safeties, call plays for his offense. I doubt the hunts for go for that!

Real fan 02 said:

I'd like to ask.. does BB have to much power? He will always get credit deservedly so for allowing brady to become who he is.. he had significant contributions to us winning all those years.. but now that the championship runs are over does he in fact have too much power? No other GM would be able to do this in any other organization. That is like Andy Reid having his buddy that coached the safeties, call plays for his offense. I doubt the hunts for go for that!

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Historically, I think it's been fine. BB's sphere of influence and authority has worked out well these last ~20 years.

We can all agree having a GOAT at QB made his system execute at an optimal outcome. High-performing, mid-budget franchise QBs make cap, roster, system, game-plan and play-calling decisions a lot easier with a higher margin of error. Just look at the coaches who are lauded for being successful and their corresponding All-Pro QB situation. The man put rosters together and coached teams that went to 9 Super Bowls. His team-building and coaching accomplishments will never be duplicated - ever.

To your point, i've come to the conclusion at 70, BB is simply stretched too thin and can't multi-task like he used to. He needs great coaches and talent around him and he just doesn't have it now. He still has a great football mind but i'm not sure how best that mind should be purposed.

It's interesting...I thought BB did a great job in 2020 with crap Cam and good last year getting back in the playoffs with a rookie QB and an improved roster. This year has been just a confusing, disappointing season and the in-game management has been worst of his era. That is what has been most shocking. The repetitive mistakes. The sloppiness. The lack of innovation. The lack of discipline.

Something needs to change. The team is going in the wrong direction.

RobertWeathers said:

Historically, I think it's been fine. BB's sphere of influence and authority has worked out well these last ~20 years.

We can all agree having a GOAT at QB made his system execute at an optimal outcome. High-performing, mid-budget franchise QBs make cap, roster, system, game-plan and play-calling decisions a lot easier with a higher margin of error. Just look at the coaches who are lauded for being successful and their corresponding All-Pro QB situation. The man put rosters together and coached teams that went to 9 Super Bowls. His team-building and coaching accomplishments will never be duplicated - ever.

To your point, i've come to the conclusion at 70, BB is simply stretched too thin and can't multi-task like he used to. He needs great coaches and talent around him and he just doesn't have it now. He still has a great football mind but i'm not sure how best that mind should be purposed.

It's interesting...I thought BB did a great job in 2020 with crap Cam and good last year getting back in the playoffs with a rookie QB and an improved roster. This year has been just a confusing, disappointing season and the in-game management has been worst of his era. That is what has been most shocking. The repetitive mistakes. The sloppiness. The lack of innovation. The lack of discipline.

Something needs to change. The team is going in the wrong direction.

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The fact that the coaching staff has lost a lot of its most reliable and experienced members is a big part of BB having too much on his plate. Defections and retirements have done a lot of damage.