Patriots Fourth And Two Podcast: AFC East Preview

supafly said:

Much rather see Geno at QB for the Jets, per the convo with @JetFan79, who seems to feel differently.

I just think that Fitzpatrick is a "good enough" journeyman QB who proved himself last season. With Geno, I'm much more confident as a Pats fan. I think he struggles with leadership, maturity, and also work ethic issues.

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1. Rex. Now I love the guy and he's a great defensive coach, but definitely not one to develop a QB.
2. Marty Mornhinweg as the coordinator. I'm not saying he's horrible, but his system is very complex and has a bunch of plays. He never shrank the playbook to account for a rookie QB and the revolving door of WRs.
3. The WRs!!! Crap. We were having open competitions mid-season for starting WRs. Guys who aren't even in the NFL now were walking in and expected to play right away. Forget about having a good relationship between QB and WR, these guys didn't even know the system and weren't good players. Decker in 2014 was the exception. Though he was injured most of the time. He did play through the injury a few games, but mainly as a decoy. Decker at 50% was better than anything else we had.
4. Defense. Dline and LBs were fine. The secondary though was much like the WRs. There's a reason Maccagnan spent big in 2015 for Revis, Skrine, Cro and Gilchrist. The 2014 DBs were horrible! Pryor was a rookie playing out of position at free safety because he was the best we had.

1. A better offensive scheme for sure.
2. Marshall and Decker (healthy) with an emerging Quincy Enunwa is light years beyond 2013 n 2014's WRs.
3. Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist added to the secondary. Which then allowed Pryor to go to his natural position of strong safety. Another huge upgrade over the previous 2 years.
4. Leonard Williams added to the already great line of Wilk, Sheldon and Snacks. Some say Williams wasn't anything special, but that's not really true if you look at the numbers. He didn't have a lot of sacks, but he was a rookie 3-4 DE... sacks will take time.
5. Fitz. Mr. Mediocrity. Likeable? Hell yeah. He gives his all and by all accounts is a great teammate/guy. But he's played 11 years and never made the playoffs. In fact he had never won more than 6 games in a season before.

1. A very easy schedule last year. Fitz can't beat good teams.
2. Mild weather games helped hide Fitz's weak arm. Until week 17.
3. Geno went 8-8 as a rookie with crap around him.
4. Devin Smith, our rookie speedster WR deep threat was a waste with Fitz.
5. Even if Geno fails, we still save the cap space if Fitz isn't signed and have a good draft pick in 2017.
6. Fitz will almost certainly get us 6 or 7 wins. Enough to keep us from a good draft pick while also failing to make the playoffs.

JetFan79 said:

Alright, so this horse has been beaten to death on Jet boards for six months. Wouldn't mind some Pat fan opinions.

Should the Jets sign Fitz?

Fyi, overall if money is not a factor, roughly 2/3s believe Fitz should start over Geno.

If money is a factor (which it obviously is), the magic number seems to be 7mil. If Fitz won't settle for 7mil, 2/3s believe it's best to roll with Geno.

I'm in the Geno camp. Even if Fitz will play for free. Though I'd love to have him as a backup since it sounds like Petty and Hack are no where near ready to play.

Now I never wanted to draft Geno and definitely never wanted him starting as a rookie. The guy wasn't nearly ready coming from a college spread system. He was never given any time to sit and learn. Hell, the broken jaw could've been a blessing in disguise. Maybe that season on the bench gave him the chance to just watch and learn. Sure sounds that way from practice reports.

Obviously Geno's first two seasons were pretty bad. But ask yourself, what rookie QBs would have succeeded on the 2013 and 2014 Jets?

1. Rex. Now I love the guy and he's a great defensive coach, but definitely not one to develop a QB.
2. Marty Mornhinweg as the coordinator. I'm not saying he's horrible, but his system is very complex and has a bunch of plays. He never shrank the playbook to account for a rookie QB and the revolving door of WRs.
3. The WRs!!! Crap. We were having open competitions mid-season for starting WRs. Guys who aren't even in the NFL now were walking in and expected to play right away. Forget about having a good relationship between QB and WR, these guys didn't even know the system and weren't good players. Decker in 2014 was the exception. Though he was injured most of the time. He did play through the injury a few games, but mainly as a decoy. Decker at 50% was better than anything else we had.
4. Defense. Dline and LBs were fine. The secondary though was much like the WRs. There's a reason Maccagnan spent big in 2015 for Revis, Skrine, Cro and Gilchrist. The 2014 DBs were horrible! Pryor was a rookie playing out of position at free safety because he was the best we had.

So seriously, what rookie QB would succeed in that environment?

Enter 2015, Maccagnan and Bowles.

1. A better offensive scheme for sure.
2. Marshall and Decker (healthy) with an emerging Quincy Enunwa is light years beyond 2013 n 2014's WRs.
3. Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist added to the secondary. Which then allowed Pryor to go to his natural position of strong safety. Another huge upgrade over the previous 2 years.
4. Leonard Williams added to the already great line of Wilk, Sheldon and Snacks. Some say Williams wasn't anything special, but that's not really true if you look at the numbers. He didn't have a lot of sacks, but he was a rookie 3-4 DE... sacks will take time.
5. Fitz. Mr. Mediocrity. Likeable? Hell yeah. He gives his all and by all accounts is a great teammate/guy. But he's played 11 years and never made the playoffs. In fact he had never won more than 6 games in a season before.

So did Fitz all of a sudden become good after 11 years, or did the team carry him?

Now after Geno's dumbass incident getting his jaw broken, I figured he was done. Especially after Bowles didn't put him back in once ready. I mean two years of a crap situation, the fans and NY media tearing apart what was obviously an immature kid, and then the broken jaw... he was surely done.

But nope. From all reports, he's been a great teammate. No complaints about not playing. Doing charity events. Looking good in practice and even practicing with Brown, Beckham Jr and other WRs/DBs during downtime. He's doing his best to get better and earn another shot.

What's Fitz doing? Sitting home looking for a big pay day after the Jets salvaged his career and he in turn failed us miserably week 17.

Other factors to consider:

1. A very easy schedule last year. Fitz can't beat good teams.
2. Mild weather games helped hide Fitz's weak arm. Until week 17.
3. Geno went 8-8 as a rookie with crap around him.
4. Devin Smith, our rookie speedster WR deep threat was a waste with Fitz.
5. Even if Geno fails, we still save the cap space if Fitz isn't signed and have a good draft pick in 2017.
6. Fitz will almost certainly get us 6 or 7 wins. Enough to keep us from a good draft pick while also failing to make the playoffs.

Click to expand...

JetFan79 said:

Alright, so this horse has been beaten to death on Jet boards for six months. Wouldn't mind some Pat fan opinions.

Should the Jets sign Fitz?

Fyi, overall if money is not a factor, roughly 2/3s believe Fitz should start over Geno.

If money is a factor (which it obviously is), the magic number seems to be 7mil. If Fitz won't settle for 7mil, 2/3s believe it's best to roll with Geno.

I'm in the Geno camp. Even if Fitz will play for free. Though I'd love to have him as a backup since it sounds like Petty and Hack are no where near ready to play.

Now I never wanted to draft Geno and definitely never wanted him starting as a rookie. The guy wasn't nearly ready coming from a college spread system. He was never given any time to sit and learn. Hell, the broken jaw could've been a blessing in disguise. Maybe that season on the bench gave him the chance to just watch and learn. Sure sounds that way from practice reports.

Obviously Geno's first two seasons were pretty bad. But ask yourself, what rookie QBs would have succeeded on the 2013 and 2014 Jets?

1. Rex. Now I love the guy and he's a great defensive coach, but definitely not one to develop a QB.
2. Marty Mornhinweg as the coordinator. I'm not saying he's horrible, but his system is very complex and has a bunch of plays. He never shrank the playbook to account for a rookie QB and the revolving door of WRs.
3. The WRs!!! Crap. We were having open competitions mid-season for starting WRs. Guys who aren't even in the NFL now were walking in and expected to play right away. Forget about having a good relationship between QB and WR, these guys didn't even know the system and weren't good players. Decker in 2014 was the exception. Though he was injured most of the time. He did play through the injury a few games, but mainly as a decoy. Decker at 50% was better than anything else we had.
4. Defense. Dline and LBs were fine. The secondary though was much like the WRs. There's a reason Maccagnan spent big in 2015 for Revis, Skrine, Cro and Gilchrist. The 2014 DBs were horrible! Pryor was a rookie playing out of position at free safety because he was the best we had.

So seriously, what rookie QB would succeed in that environment?

Enter 2015, Maccagnan and Bowles.

1. A better offensive scheme for sure.
2. Marshall and Decker (healthy) with an emerging Quincy Enunwa is light years beyond 2013 n 2014's WRs.
3. Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist added to the secondary. Which then allowed Pryor to go to his natural position of strong safety. Another huge upgrade over the previous 2 years.
4. Leonard Williams added to the already great line of Wilk, Sheldon and Snacks. Some say Williams wasn't anything special, but that's not really true if you look at the numbers. He didn't have a lot of sacks, but he was a rookie 3-4 DE... sacks will take time.
5. Fitz. Mr. Mediocrity. Likeable? Hell yeah. He gives his all and by all accounts is a great teammate/guy. But he's played 11 years and never made the playoffs. In fact he had never won more than 6 games in a season before.

So did Fitz all of a sudden become good after 11 years, or did the team carry him?

Now after Geno's dumbass incident getting his jaw broken, I figured he was done. Especially after Bowles didn't put him back in once ready. I mean two years of a crap situation, the fans and NY media tearing apart what was obviously an immature kid, and then the broken jaw... he was surely done.

But nope. From all reports, he's been a great teammate. No complaints about not playing. Doing charity events. Looking good in practice and even practicing with Brown, Beckham Jr and other WRs/DBs during downtime. He's doing his best to get better and earn another shot.

What's Fitz doing? Sitting home looking for a big pay day after the Jets salvaged his career and he in turn failed us miserably week 17.

Other factors to consider:

1. A very easy schedule last year. Fitz can't beat good teams.
2. Mild weather games helped hide Fitz's weak arm. Until week 17.
3. Geno went 8-8 as a rookie with crap around him.
4. Devin Smith, our rookie speedster WR deep threat was a waste with Fitz.
5. Even if Geno fails, we still save the cap space if Fitz isn't signed and have a good draft pick in 2017.
6. Fitz will almost certainly get us 6 or 7 wins. Enough to keep us from a good draft pick while also failing to make the playoffs.

Click to expand...