Trade for T.J. Duckett?

mtbykr said:

Look, if getting corey (and we are blinded by the BB machine of not letting us know much) some split time will keep him healthier and more productive ect...then i am all for it. He is although just one year removed from a 1600 yard season---so i tend to chalk up this year to the injuries of him and the o-line. If we do this however i don't see us keeping 4 backs, so pass would go. (even though BB has kept him around for quite a while for some reason)

As far as salary goes, i am sure by the end of next year (i think that's when his contract is up)--he's gonna want to get paid so we will have to deal with that as well!

I think where our opinions differ is basically this: I think i would rather spend the 3rd or 4th rounder on another area OR on a back that can compete in camp and if he doesn't make the team we can keep him on a "futures or practice squad" type until he is ready and a bigger need arises!

I guess we will see what happens!

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Newsflash: Digger44 listens to another's opinion!
I think how you stated that we differ is right on. i have no issues with using a 3/4 on what you say. The difficulty is finding that rookie back in 3/4 that can compete in camp. can it be done? yes, but it is tough and we dont have the best history in doing so. I like duckett because he can compete in camp and is not a complete shot in the dark like a 3/4 rb would be.

Digger44 said:

1.) grammatically speaking you should have stated, "not me" not "not I"

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Just wrong, plain and simple. The construction, when boiled down, is "I will not put up w/ your abuse." Trust me, I graduated summa cum laude w/ a degree in English.

Digger44 said:

2.) you act as if a vets salary hit on a cap is a bad thing. why? a vet min is great!

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If he performs even close to as you say he will, his hit will be huge...next year. If the Pats were to try to extend him now, he'd still be way more expensive than a 3rd round rookie.

Either way, a risky investment.

Digger44 said:

3.) you obviously have not been reading the thread because if you had you would have known that we were not talking about duckett being a short-yardage back. Who ever said this is what we want?

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That what he has shown himself to be---for 4 seasons.

Digger44 said:

4.) "A 3rd for Duckett is lunacy, but what more can be expected of you. You have your opinions and accept none that do not agree w/ yours 100%." Stop whining you sound like Peyton Manning.?

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You really like that Manning line, don't you? So tired.

Digger44 said:

5.) It certainly is not my way or nothing at all, however I do not appreciate foolishness placed in a post when it is obvious that the poster has no idea what he is talking about. this is evidenced from two sources. #1--you had no idea we were discussing a full time future back, not someone to spell corey. #2--comparing duckett to smith is the lunacy you speak of. you still did not address how you compare a 24 yr old, 6ft, 250lb back who runs a 4.4 to a old man who can't pass a conditioning test. how do you come up with your thoughts that they are similar? what is your reasoning?

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No, you are talking about a short-yardage back. You (and others) seem to think he's more than that, but combine numbers from 2002 do not prove anything. For 4 years, that's what he's been. If it walks like a Duck(ett), talks like a Duck(ett), and acts like a Duck(ett), it's a Duck(ett).

We don't need Duckett, he's going to be too expensive too soon, and a 3rd rounder could be better spent on an area of need.

If Corey cannot come back strong, then we WILL need a pounder at the goal line. I still say there are cheaper options out there.

I say a 3rd for Duckett is foolishness, and I don't appreciate it being posted otherwise!

cubedoggy said:

Just wrong, plain and simple. The construction, when boiled down, is "I will not put up w/ your abuse." Trust me, I graduated summa cum laude w/ a degree in English.



If he performs even close to as you say he will, his hit will huge...next year. If the Pats were to try to extend him now, he'd still be way more expensive than a 3rd round rookie.

Either way, a risky investment.



That what he has shown himself to be---for 4 seasons.



You really like that Manning line, don't you? So tired.



No, you are talking about a short-yardage back. You (and others) seem to think he's more than that, but combine numbers from 2002 do not prove anything. For 4 years, that's what he's been. If it walks like a Duck(ett), talks like a Duck(ett), and acts like a Duck(ett), it's a Duck(ett).

We don't need Duckett, he's going to be too expensive too soon, and a 3rd rounder could be better spent on an area of need.

If Corey cannot come back strong, then we WILL need a pounder at the goal line. I still say there are cheaper options out there.

I say a 3rd for Duckett is foolishness, and I don't appreciate it being posted otherwise!

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i dont care if you graduated magna u crappy. IT IS "not me". after 2 years of hebrew and 6 years of greek with an earned masters I know grammar.

I will difuse your argument with one point you make. Why will Duckett be looking for so much $$$ in a few years like you claim? Hmmm, it must be because he is the crappy back you portray him to be. you are right, my bad.

cubedoggy said:

No, you are talking about a short-yardage back. You (and others) seem to think he's more than that, but combine numbers from 2002 do not prove anything. For 4 years, that's what he's been. If it walks like a Duck(ett), talks like a Duck(ett), and acts like a Duck(ett), it's a Duck(ett).

We don't need Duckett, he's going to be too expensive too soon, and a 3rd rounder could be better spent on an area of need.

If Corey cannot come back strong, then we WILL need a pounder at the goal line. I still say there are cheaper options out there.

I say a 3rd for Duckett is foolishness, and I don't appreciate it being posted otherwise!

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Thanks for telling me what I am talking about, not sure how you know since you cannot comprehend what you are talking about.

$750,000 is not expensive if it is even that high.

"If, If, If corey"

I don't appreciate your foolishness. you are more then welcome to post, just cut the crap.

Digger44 said:

i dont care if you graduated magna u crappy. IT IS "not me". after 2 years of hebrew and 6 years of greek with an earned masters I know grammar.

I will difuse your argument with one point you make. Why will Duckett be looking for so much $$$ in a few years like you claim? Hmmm, it must be because he is the crappy back you portray him to be. you are right, my bad.

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Look, I'm not going to get into a grammar discussion, but Hebrew and Greek are not English, and you're wrong. I have worked w/ and around many folks w/ Master degrees who can't write a sentence.

Duckett will command $$$ because he a veteran. You are now quite obviously not reading what I'm actually saying, but what you want my words to say read through your opinion's lens. I did not say he was "crappy," I said he was a short-yardage back.

On the Duckett point, I can agree to disagree w/ you, as it's really an argument about potential...but not on the grammar, because that's a fact.

well

Digger44 said:

Newsflash: Digger44 listens to another's opinion!
I think how you stated that we differ is right on. i have no issues with using a 3/4 on what you say. The difficulty is finding that rookie back in 3/4 that can compete in camp. can it be done? yes, but it is tough and we dont have the best history in doing so. I like duckett because he can compete in camp and is not a complete shot in the dark like a 3/4 rb would be.

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A good point. He is not a shot in the dark as a draft pick would be. My point was that even though a draft is a shot in the dark, we don't necesarilly need to throw a roster spot at him as we can 'practice squad" him until later on. Both would be an unknown quantity, the draft obviously more so. We still don't know though, if Duckett would fit into our system. If he produces as you think he might, i have a feeling though that he would want some good jack come payday. Then we have another decision to make as Corey is also still under contract then (although i don't know his cap hit)

Who knows, i am not opposed to getting him---and i trust BB to make the right choices! I just think we could use our resources better. Of course i am here writing and not working in the pats front office--so take it for what it's worth!

ya

cubedoggy said:

Look, I'm not going to get into a grammar discussion, but Hebrew and Greek are not English, and you're wrong. I have worked w/ and around many folks w/ Master degrees who can't write a sentence.

Duckett will command $$$ because he a veteran. You are now quite obviously not reading what I'm actually saying, but what you want my words to say read through your opinion's lens. I did not say he was "crappy," I said he was a short-yardage back.

On the Duckett point, I can agree to disagree w/ you, as it's really an argument about potential...but not on the grammar, because that's a fact.

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Nothing to do with that pats,,,,but that is right on! I see people everyday that are highly educated---and they also should be wearing a helmet!!

Ok, back to the pats now!

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Arguing over grammar on a football message board: ............ priceless.

A few points mentioned in the last page or so:

1. BBs history of mid-level RBs is not good. I'd rather get a guy who proved he can play at the NFL level, unlike a jag such as Cobbs.

2. The TJ will break the bank after next season argument? Huh? If anything, that should be an argument go to AFTER him. If TJ comes in and tears it up, and the Pats can extend him to a decent contract that's GREAT.

In case you haven't noticed, RBs aren't exactly breaking the bank in the NFL these days. Heck, MVP Alexander was dangled for a 2nd before last years draft. Teams don't want to invest big $$ in RBs due to their short shelf life. If Duckett did well, I'd guess he would command Lamont Jordan $$ which is fine by me for a guy who can start 4-5 yrs for you.

Digger44 said:

Thanks for telling me what I am talking about, not sure how you know since you cannot comprehend what you are talking about.

$750,000 is not expensive if it is even that high.

"If, If, If corey"

I don't appreciate your foolishness. you are more then welcome to post, just cut the crap.

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I don't need your permission to post, you over-officious jerk.

T-ShirtDynasty said:

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Arguing over grammar on a football message board: ............ priceless.

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Thank you T!

T-ShirtDynasty said:

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NICE!!!

tombonneau said:

The TJ will break the bank after next season argument? Huh? If anything, that should be an argument go to AFTER him. If TJ comes in and tears it up, and the Pats can extend him to a decent contract that's GREAT.

In case you haven't noticed, RBs aren't exactly breaking the bank in the NFL these days. Heck, MVP Alexander was dangled for a 2nd before last years draft. Teams don't want to invest big $$ in RBs due to their short shelf life. If Duckett did well, I'd guess he would command Lamont Jordan $$ which is fine by me for a guy who can start 4-5 yrs for you.

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Look, all I'm saying is that he'd be more expensive against the cap than a 3rd rounder, and I didn't say that the 3rd rounder in question would be a running back. As the Pats tend to run quite close to the cap every year, I can't see where the value is in opicking up a guy who'll have a significant hit for next season, and, if he pans out, a much larger hit thereafter.

He's not a proven commodity like Corey was when that deal was made. He may very well have potential, but if Corey was worth a 2, then Duckett is certainly not worth a 3. If this thread were about a 6 or 7 for him, my opinion might differ.

Also, if Corey shows in camp that he's back, then Duckett will be of little use. If Corey tires or gets hurt during the season, other backs will be available, and we'll still have 3 or 4 around to rotate (Pass, Faulk, Evans, Charles, or others).
Finally, if Corey is all done, I think BB makes a run at a bigger name, like the attempt for Mason after Patten left.

cubedoggy said:

No, you are talking about a short-yardage back. You (and others) seem to think he's more than that, but combine numbers from 2002 do not prove anything. For 4 years, that's what he's been. If it walks like a Duck(ett), talks like a Duck(ett), and acts like a Duck(ett), it's a Duck(ett).

We don't need Duckett, he's going to be too expensive too soon, and a 3rd rounder could be better spent on an area of need.

If Corey cannot come back strong, then we WILL need a pounder at the goal line. I still say there are cheaper options out there.

I say a 3rd for Duckett is foolishness, and I don't appreciate it being posted otherwise!

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At the moment, Duckett may be a short-yardage back in ATLANTA'S SYSTEM. That may not be the case if he comes here. He had a bad year this year with limited carries, but the last 2 seasons, he's had 8 touchdowns. Last year, he rushed for 509 yards with 6 runs over 20 yards. Two seasons ago, the man ran for 779 yards and 11 touchdowns. He had a long run of 55 yards and had 5 runs of 20+ yards. So please cut the crap that he is only a short yardage back. If Duckett gets the chance, he'll be a great starter imo.

unearth said:

At the moment, Duckett may be a short-yardage back in ATLANTA'S SYSTEM. That may not be the case if he comes here.

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True, it may not be the case, but it could be that Atlanta's system, despite limiting his carries, may actually benefit him in number of TD chances and yards-per-attempt w/ Vick and Dunn in the same backfield. We don't know, and I don't think it's worth a 3rd and his cap number to find out.

That's all I'm trying to say.

cubedoggy said:

True, it may not be the case, but it could be that Atlanta's system, despite limiting his carries, may actually benefit him in number of TD chances and yards-per-attempt w/ Vick and Dunn in the same backfield. We don't know, and I don't think it's worth a 3rd and his cap number to find out.

That's all I'm trying to say.

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I agree he's not a no-brainer at a 3rd, but he would be for a 4th IMO.

As far as caphit, I think you're way off base there. I'm sure its vet min $750k, you're really not gonna get a legit guy cheaper than that. Even 3/4 rounders prob. are more capwise given SB and rookie salary.

Edit: Since so many people covet draft picks like precious treasure, a history of who BB has picked in the 4th round...

2005 - James Sanders
2004 - Cedric Cobbs/Dexter Reid
2003 - Dan Klecko/Asante Samuel
2002 - Rohan Davey/Jarvis Green
2001 - Kenyatta Jones/Jabari Holloway
2000 - Greg Randall

We'll say jury is out on Sanders. So out of NINE players, one is a starter (Samuel), one is a solid role player (Green), one is fairly useless (Klecko), SIX are out of the NFL entirely (Greg Randall maybe around?), and one was cut and last I knew was on the Colts practice squad (Reid).

So despite having 2 picks in the majority of 4th rounds (9 picks total not inc. 2005), they've only fielded two worthwhile players.

Still think Duckett isn't worth a 4th??

cubedoggy said:

True, it may not be the case, but it could be that Atlanta's system, despite limiting his carries, may actually benefit him in number of TD chances and yards-per-attempt w/ Vick and Dunn in the same backfield. We don't know, and I don't think it's worth a 3rd and his cap number to find out.

That's all I'm trying to say.

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If that is what you have been trying to say all along then why didn't you say that? cube, i don't have a problem over your concern because your concern makes sense when you put it this way. You are right, we don't know. some of us are willing to find out based upon the guys potential, size, speed, and nose for the endzone. please, you gotta admit that you don't see a guy built like this every day, and in the right system he may be huge. look at thomas jones. bad in arizona and tampa but blew up in chicago because of their system. Corey is a power runner inside the tackles. he was huge last year because he was healthy and fit. now give corey 30 lbs and a faster step and you could have something explosive. please admit that the theory is sound. ok, so you do not think that duckett is cracked up to what we are talking about. thats ok, it is your opinion. do you at least see the potential?

i'm all for getting tj for a 4th or LESS... does anyone think he's worth more than that to us, with corey dillon and kevin faulk already in the fold?

tombonneau said:

I agree he's not a no-brainer at a 3rd, but he would be for a 4th IMO.

As far as caphit, I think you're way off base there. I'm sure its vet min $750k, you're really not gonna get a legit guy cheaper than that. Even 3/4 rounders prob. are more capwise given SB and rookie salary.

Edit: Since so many people covet draft picks like precious treasure, a history of who BB has picked in the 4th round...

2005 - James Sanders
2004 - Cedric Cobbs/Dexter Reid
2003 - Dan Klecko/Asante Samuel
2002 - Rohan Davey/Jarvis Green
2001 - Kenyatta Jones/Jabari Holloway
2000 - Greg Randall

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how has BB done on 6/7th round picks?
im sure someone can add... but i think brady, givens, green, cassell, and gay (i know, FA, which = 8) are pretty good.
i've never seen a year when you couldnt trade a 4 for two 6's.

PatsWorldChamps said:

no way would i give a 3rd for him

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thats fine, we have been discussing a 3/4. bb is so good with the 3s.