Dr. Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

[cstjohn17]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

It’s a tough choice between Redd, Guyton and Slater. Maybe the Pats end up keeping one of either Guyton or Redd and hold on to Slater since he has been on all ST groups with the 1’s and BB has him playing DB to add even more value. It’s also tough to keep both Aiken and Izzo since they fill the same role on ST. Maybe Aiken goes to IR. I also might be inclined to go with Webster or L.Sanders over Spann as well. Although Spann’s has looked good in practice I don’t see it translating to the games.

Pretty much right with you.. with a possibility of an additional TE being brought in with either Jordan or Morris being cut. Thomas and Watson are so similar in their style, Watson can block a little but Thomas gets shoved around. The O Line may be going through musical chairs and an extra TE that can block would help out.

I would take Slater over Redd. I have not seen Redd make a play, I think he is a fan favorite because he is tall...

 

[bradmahn]

I use my eyes to formulate my opinions, you created an offensive spot for a player whom came to us as a Safety. You easily dismiss a player like Aiken, whom is of the same stature as a special teamer than Izzo was when he came to us four or so years ago.

I use my eyes, as well, and the last two weeks I've seen Ventrone make plays as a slot receiver (a position he is just learning) while Aiken has been using his eyes to follow the television in the trainer's room. Aiken's reputation as a special teams stud is just that - reputation. He hasn't shown any of that ability for the Patriots for the last two weeks and wasn't lighting the world on fire to begin with. Why is Aiken more valuable than someone who has actually shown positives right now and has more potential as a wide receiver?

All of that aside, there's still room for both Aiken and Ventrone on the roster.

 

[alvinnf]

I use my eyes, as well, and the last two weeks I've seen Ventrone make plays as a slot receiver (a position he is just learning) while Aiken has been using his eyes to follow the television in the trainer's room. Aiken's reputation as a special teams stud is just that - reputation. He hasn't shown any of that ability for the Patriots for the last two weeks and wasn't lighting the world on fire to begin with. Why is Aiken more valuable than someone who has actually shown positives right now and has more potential as a wide receiver?

All of that aside, there's still room for both Aiken and Ventrone on the roster.

Steve Tasker, Buffalo Bills......... But I digress. I would take CJ. Jones over both Ventrone or Chad Jackson for that matter, thank god I'm only investing emotion.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

The Pats may think guys like Guyton, Redd, and/or Slater are worthy of a spot of the 53 man roster. But I will doubt that whether they can pass through waivers to make it to the practice squad will be much of a factor. Otherwise, they would never had waived guys like Justin Rogers or Kareem Brown last year.

The way I see it, the team shouldn't use a past mistake like that as a reason for doing it again.

I disagree that there is no room for developmental players. THere are six spots for players who will be on the team but not suit up.

Personally, I don't think you make roster decisions on whether a guy can pass through waivers or not. If he isn't good enough to make the 53 man roster and contribute now in some way, you can't worry whether or not they can pass through waivers and you take a risk. Promising guys at the bottom of the roster and practice squad have a low success rate anyway because they never get the reps to develop.

Making decisions solely for now at the expense of the future is not something BB is into. Trading this year's picks for picks next year is a perfect example of him looking to the future. When has he ever traded a future pick to get an extra one for this year?

 

[BPF]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

Promising guys at the bottom of the roster and practice squad have a low success rate anyway because they never get the reps to develop.

#114 click the link there from NFL.com

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?p=964633#post964633

Jyles Tucker was undrafted last year, now look at the extension he received:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080825-1552-bn25chargers.html

UDFA's can become solid players and some all pro's. Add Kassim Osgood to that link from NFL.com, 2 time pro bowl ST player for San Diego.

 

[bradmahn]

Steve Tasker, Buffalo Bills.........

Only probably the greatest special teamer to ever play. So what the hell does he have to do with Ray Ventrone or Aiken? Surely you can't be saying that Aiken is to be compared to Tasker, can you? One has legitimate Hall of Fame talk, the other wasn't even retained by his former team for his legendary special teams prowess and hasn't practiced in two weeks.

But I digress. I would take CJ. Jones over both Ventrone or Chad Jackson for that matter, thank god I'm only investing emotion.

Yes, thank god.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

I disagree that there is no room for developmental players. THere are six spots for players who will be on the team but not suit up.

I keep seeing this said but it's only true for the first week of the season. After that, when injuries take their toll, you need those "developmental players" to be able to provide something as depth when their number is called. On this team, where the roster from 1 to 53 could be the best in all of football, they might be able to get by with have two completely developmental players, but they don't have seven openings (I don't know if you meant to say seven, but there are seven gameday, "undressed" inactives).

 

[patchick]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

On this team, where the roster from 1 to 53 could be the best in all of football, they might be able to get by with have two completely developmental players

Okey doke: I'll take O'Connell and Guyton.

A few here would add Redd (perhaps arguing that O'Connell doesn't really count, since nobody ever expects the #3 QB to "contribute"). But is anybody advocating more purely developmental guys than that? Those who want Slater project him to contribute right away on special teams; those pulling for Wilhite or Richardson like them as CB depth over Webster; etc.

That's the odd thing about the big philosophical debate here about constructing the roster for today vs. the future. Boil it down and we're talking about one player out of 53, Gary Guyton. And BB somehow finds room for one UDFA every single year.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

Okey doke: I'll take O'Connell and Guyton.

A few here would add Redd (perhaps arguing that O'Connell doesn't really count, since nobody ever expects the #3 QB to "contribute"). But is anybody advocating more purely developmental guys than that? Those who want Slater project him to contribute right away on special teams; those pulling for Wilhite or Richardson like them as CB depth over Webster; etc.

That's the odd thing about the big philosophical debate here about constructing the roster for today vs. the future. Boil it down and we're talking about one player out of 53, Gary Guyton. And BB somehow finds room for one UDFA every single year.

I didn't have O'Connell in mind only because he is expected to contribute as the emergency QB. He's already dressed.

Guyton qualifies but may be pretty close to playing some snaps on defense right now. Think about it, if a rookie LB had jumped to third ILB in training camp two seasons ago, some here would have mighty high expectations of him for that season but because of Mayo Guyton seems to have been overlooked. I think the fact that he's running with the 1s and 2s is pretty impressive myself.

He's probably going to play special teams, too.

Redd and an inactive Ventrone (though I expect special teams from him) would seem to fit the bill and I agree with you about Slater.... I actually think he's going to be a premier gunner right from the get-go, he gets downfield in a hurry and hits hard. He'll force a lot of fair catches.

 

[PatsFan37]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

I agree that Guyton qualifies as working depth and may win the position by beating out Hobson both on STs and at ILB. There aren't that many true ILBs, assuming you don't want to take Vrabel and Thomas from the outside. So after the speculation at the beginning of camp, Guyton looks like he wins the Wright/Gay Annual UDFA award.

Redd is much more of a true developmental player, sitting on a roster spot for next year. With Crable and Woods behind Thomas and Vrabel, Redd isn't needed. If they keep him, it answers the question of whether BB uses a roster spot for non-QB developmental players.

QB's are a different animal, since they are such a big roll of the dice. If they show anything in preseason, some team (Tampa?) will find room to stash them on a roster.

 

[mgteich]

We can certainly keep 10 linebackers, if we choose, with Guyton as the developmental player.

OLB: Vrabel, Thomas, Crable, Woods
ILB: Bruschi, Mayo, Alexander, Seau/Hobson
ST: Izzo
DEV: Guyton

DEFENSE/ST 25
DL 6
LB 10
CB 5 (Hobbs, Bryant, Wheatley, Wilhite, Sanders/Webster)
S 4

 

[Crowpointer]

We can certainly keep 10 linebackers, if we choose, with Guyton as the developmental player.

OLB: Vrabel, Thomas, Crable, Woods
ILB: Bruschi, Mayo, Alexander, Seau/Hobson
ST: Izzo
DEV: Guyton

DEFENSE/ST 25
DL 6
LB 10
CB 5 (Hobbs, Bryant, Wheatley, Wilhite, Sanders/Webster)
S 4

Every time I see Seau's name listed on the roster it makes me smile.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Spann and Alexander are gone............

The prior post of a 15 yard TE reception and subsequent tackle with the camera focused on the back of a #52 Patriots jersey was perfect.

Spann was invisible against TB and even more invisible against Philly unless it was a pile-on tackle after a 7-15 yard gain.