Turf issues at Gillette

[rkarp1]

it appears from some of these comments, that many do not understand that the team does not play on grass.
also, why would anyone in their right mind believe Kraft is involved in the decision to put down artificial turf or not?
they replaced the field after Fifa in a very timely manner
the NFL did not pass the re laid turf
the team replaced it again...

 

[PATSNUTme]

People act like Bob and John are down on the field with boxes of seed that they bought at Home Depot.
They have professional people telling them what is going on with the field. They decide what to with the field base on that professional advise. Perhaps people forgot the mess that led to the Jets winning a playoff game here at Gillette.
I don't think that the Krafts have forgotten that. They will not make a decision on the type of field based on cost. They have invested too much into the stadium and team to do that.

 

[rkarp1]

there is also the issue regarding safety with surface consistency
I would believe the team did extensive research on player safety between the chosen turf with soft crushed material underneath (not concrete slab) and a torn up, frozen winter surface, and a freshly laid in the winter natural grass that does not "take" in the freezing temps and will lift and cause injury when played on.
the "Kraft is cheap" truthers never fail

 

[XLIX]

People act like Bob and John are down on the field with boxes of seed that they bought at Home Depot.

They probably didn't lay down the lime. You gotta start with a base of lime.

 

[TommyD4207]

Yep, it’s wishful thinking that a grass field installed for four weeks of use in June and July could simply be left there and function through a football winter.

They planned the stadium for grass and it didn’t work. I don’t pretend to have the expertise to know whether new turf technology would change that outcome today. But I can’t blame an owner for being wary when he got the same guarantees that “this won’t be like the last disastrous grass field, honest” on the previous go round.

That was more than 20 years ago.

There have been many improvements to grass fields since then a) and b) even if it turned into a mudpit, the chance of catastrophic head injuries and leg injuries drop dramatically on a grass field.

 

[TommyD4207]

there is also the issue regarding safety with surface consistency
I would believe the team did extensive research on player safety between the chosen turf with soft crushed material underneath (not concrete slab) and a torn up, frozen winter surface, and a freshly laid in the winter natural grass that does not "take" in the freezing temps and will lift and cause injury when played on.
the "Kraft is cheap" truthers never fail

They absolutely do not do this. It's a pure money issue.

 

[n1997y]

The whole "they should use grass" thing is a different conversation than this issue. Need to separate the two. I understand the thought process, but that's not really the current issue at hand. Even if they did keep it and made big investments in trying to keep it healthy through New England winters, who's to say the league would have passed that installation either?

Exactly. What would be required to make a grass field work in New England during winter is a very different set of questions than what is required to have a playable field right now after the World Acup. And is the league screwing the Pats again.

The problem isn't whether they used turf or grass, it's the league shanking the team once again for no apparent reason other than malice, laziness, penny-pinching, or some combination of the three.

It’s mostly malice imo, combined with and driven by jealousy. During the dynasty years the Pats consistently got the ****ty end of the stick, because they made a mockery of parity for too many years. It wasn’t coincidence. We all saw it. Now the turnaround was too fast, Vrabel took the Pats to the Super Bowl in his first year as HC, and the league sees the handwriting on the wall after the AJ Brown trade. We’ve rebuilt the entire team including the front office, Stretch and Eliot are working well together, the biggest roster problem is too many good WRs. The deck is going to be stacked whenever and wherever possible. We need to expect the same treatment we got during the peak dynasty years, until the problem is fixed again. And that problem won’t be fixed as long as Vrabel and Maye are here. We are back!

 

[n1997y]

That was more than 20 years ago.

There have been many improvements to grass fields since then a) and b) even if it turned into a mudpit, the chance of catastrophic head injuries and leg injuries drop dramatically on a grass field.

What would it take to install a grass field incorporating all those improvements?

Do you even know what grass variety FIFA required? Was it a variety that grows well in summer and dies in winter? How would that field have endured freezing rain?

One response earlier suggested removing the entire grass surface between games to stack it in climate controlled domes to recover. How would that work if there’s a week between games and it snows a blizzard late in that week? Such recovery domes don’t even exist in Foxboro! But that should’ve been installed after the World Cup? SMH!

 

[TommyD4207]

What would it take to install a grass field incorporating all those improvements?

Do you even know what grass variety FIFA required? Was it a variety that grows well in summer and dies in winter? How would that field have endured freezing rain?

One response earlier suggested removing the entire grass surface between games to stack it in climate controlled domes to recover. How would that work if there’s a week between games and it snows a blizzard late in that week? Such recovery domes don’t even exist in Foxboro! But that should’ve been installed after the World Cup? SMH!

Yes. It should have. God forbid some starter blows their acl on this ****amamie fieldturf.

 

[Tunescribe]

What would it take to install a grass field incorporating all those improvements?

Do you even know what grass variety FIFA required? Was it a variety that grows well in summer and dies in winter? How would that field have endured freezing rain?

One response earlier suggested removing the entire grass surface between games to stack it in climate controlled domes to recover. How would that work if there’s a week between games and it snows a blizzard late in that week? Such recovery domes don’t even exist in Foxboro! But that should’ve been installed after the World Cup? SMH!

The team's argument against grass, as I recall from about 20 years ago, is that it can't be adequately maintained through late fall into early winter because of (A) N.E. climate and (B) the way Gillette is laid out. Apparently the stadium floor doesn't receive adequate sun exposure due to shadows cast with it dropping lower toward the horizon from September-onward. Again, this is how management (I think Kraft) explained it.

I remember the mud game loss to Mangini's Jete, the last grass game before turf was installed in-season.

 

[Sect140]

The Krafts read the instructions and installed the new turf in accordance with best practice for how Gillette is constructed, e,g. for a crushed granite substrate. Gillette is constructed with a crushed granite substrate not poured concrete.

Reiss reports: “The artificial turf surface installed was vetted by the Patriots and the New England Revolution and passed all NFL and MLS field tests, per chief operating officer Jim Nolan. However, the field was deemed noncompliant by the NFL.”

So the turf as installed passed all the tests but the NFL deemed it non-compliant because their lab testing had been done using a different field construction.

The league needs to understand that every team stadium is not the same and accommodate the variations. Most stadiums are already built (Bills just finished theirs) so it’s not reasonable to expect them to change fundamentals like field substrate long after they’re built.

The league could have / should have tested the configuration as installed at Gillette. Without that testing they can’t say whether the Gillette installation might even have been superior to the installation over concrete. I bet the Krafts would even have paid for that testing, as it would be cheaper than replacing the entire installation.

So yes, it’s the league screwing the Krafts again.

My question is, as a fan of the team, why do you hate the team owners and favor the league over our team?

Yes the installation was vetted by the Pats and Revolution per Jim Nolan’s process but the NFL has to be the one to approve it, the team can’t contact the NFL and say we tested using Jim Nolan’s standards and it all checks out.

 

[Sect140]

On Zolak and Bertrand they were reading an article that said the Pats have always used Field Turf and after the World Cup went with a company called Hellas as the provider. According to Field Turf the turf that Hellas installed wasn’t an approved turf, also a layer beneath the turf known as an elastic layer wasn’t installed.

 

[Sect140]

The team's argument against grass, as I recall from about 20 years ago, is that it can't be adequately maintained through late fall into early winter because of (A) N.E. climate and (B) the way Gillette is laid out. Apparently the stadium floor doesn't receive adequate sun exposure due to shadows cast with it dropping lower toward the horizon from September-onward. Again, this is how management (I think Kraft) explained it.

I remember the mud game loss to Mangini's Jete, the last grass game before turf was installed in-season.

Also they state the turf holds up a lot better than grass to concerts, monster truck shows and other events which makes sense to me, with that said I would be all in for grass.

 

[JoeSixPat]

**** happens. Things go wrong but what seems very controllable would have been not waiting till the last minute to have installation/inspection done. Gillette hosted its last FIFA match a month ago..

Too bad they couldn't just keep the grass field installed for the World Cup!

 

[Sect140]

We always hear reports about NFL standards when it comes to fields ( grass or turf). Ever single year sometime in November the Steelers grass field is in such bad shape, most of it is dirt that they paint green. Where is the NFL field police when that is going on?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Turf sucks. For so many reasons, especially injuries. It is used by greedy owners (such as the Krafts) so they can have lots of events.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

We always hear reports about NFL standards when it comes to fields ( grass or turf). Ever single year sometime in November the Steelers grass field is in such bad shape, most of it is dirt that they paint green. Where is the NFL field police when that is going on?

What's wrong with dirt? Still much safer than ****ing turf.

I love the old school football in dirt, mud and snow.

 

[Thunderhead]

Turf sucks. For so many reasons, especially injuries. It is used by greedy owners (such as the Krafts) so they can have lots of events.

why die with $13 billion when you could die with $14 billion?

 

[patfanken]

What's wrong with dirt? Still much safer than ****ing turf.

I love the old school football in dirt, mud and snow.

Aside from the stat that players like grass more than turf, where are the stats that state grass is safer than turf. Grass might be easier on the joints than turf, but they both measure out equally on actual injuries. Also, you are ignoring the issues with maintaining that grass when it's frozen in December and January (though IIRC didn't that have some kind of warming feature built into the field?)

BTW - The field they laid down after they pulled the grass actual passed NFL standards of performance, the issue was that MOST NFL stadiums have a concrete base and so that so called E layer is needed and was written into the agreement between the NFL and NFLPA. HOWEVER, Gillette has some kind of stone dust layer as a base which isn't as hard and the E layer wasn't used. Now I wonder if between the stone dust AND E layer if the turf might be TOO bouncy. Just a thought.

 

[Sect140]

What's wrong with dirt? Still much safer than ****ing turf.

I love the old school football in dirt, mud and snow.

I’d rather them play on grass than dirt. LOL!