Player Signing Patriots Finally Get Gabe Jacas Under Contract

[DaBruinz]

My guess is that he starts the season as EDGE 4 with Ponder ahead of him. It sounds like the team don't want to rush him. Although who knows where Landry will be come season start.

Despite my driving the Jacas Bandwagon, I saw him starting as Edge 4 with a healthy Landry and Edge 3 if Landry started the season on the PUP.

 

[Pape]

Not according to some of the grievances filed against them. There HAVE been grievances against the Patriots for this. And there have been grievances around the league for this.

BTW, do you really think that not offering a Participation agreement and not wanting to guarantee Jacas' contract for injury when the Patriots KNEW before they drafted him that he was going to have surgery on his knee??


You mean the deal that the Patriots weren't offering? A deal that would ensure that Jacas still got paid if he got injured?


Go ahead and show everyone that the deal didn't change? Seriously. NONE of us have any idea what the negotiations were. So stop pretending like you do.


Here is reality:
The CBA has participation agreements for a reason. To ensure that teams negotiate fairly with drafted rookies who show up to Pre-TC activities, but end up suffering an injury. Such as Ty McKenzie did.

Jacas was never offered that participation agreement by the Pats. So, if Jacas showed up and got hurt, the Pats wouldn't be obligated to negotiate with him at the terms of the rookie contracts.

We do not know, exactly what the hold up was. The Presumption is that the Patriots were unwilling to offer Jacas the guarantee for Injury in the contract. But we don't know.

Here's the timeline
- Gets drafted
- Undergoes surgery almost immediately after
- Team declines to offer the PPA - the one thing we do not know is why the team didn't offer the PPA beyond the basic fact of him getting cut on which should not be that big of a deal - I am thinking because he handles the off season rehab poorly / immaturely
- Finally signs
- Gets put on the NFI

If Jacas had signed earlier
- Gets drafted
- signs deal - gets injury protection immediately
- Team / player decision on the the course of his rehab - He can agree with it or get a second opinion as would be his right based on the standard NFL contract
- He works in conjunction with the team to get healthy
- He avoids the Injury Waiver in his deal. which does not void until 2028

* He should have signed his contract offer as soon as possible *

and how do I know the contract is basically the same at the beginning as it was the day he signed it? The Rookie Pool - Its been slotted for over a year now at that level ... I don't need to tell you this - YOU already know this...

I will die on the hill thinking it is better to get your guys signed early that to let it linger into July / August...

The simple fact that you have tried to call me out over this stance is mind boggling... It was stupid play by the rookie player/agent and it should be called out when it happens by everyone...

But you are such an apologist for everything the players do...

So now, Gabe Jackass can't do **** while on the NFI... Instead of perhaps being ready to go for camp by going through a proper rehab after a knee debridement, he's again sitting on his ass falling further behind the rookie class in terms of learning the NFL game, experiencing the speed and power at the NFL level, Working with & developing chemistry with his position group, and even falling further behind in his physical conditioning...

Go on Bruinz - Tell me I am wrong...

 

[DaBruinz]

Here's the timeline
- Gets drafted
- Undergoes surgery almost immediately after
- Team declines to offer the PPA - the one thing we do not know is why the team didn't offer the PPA beyond the basic fact of him getting cut on which should not be that big of a deal - I am thinking because he handles the off season rehab poorly / immaturely
- Finally signs
- Gets put on the NFI

If Jacas had signed earlier
- Gets drafted
- signs deal - gets injury protection immediately
- Team / player decision on the the course of his rehab - He can agree with it or get a second opinion as would be his right based on the standard NFL contract
- He works in conjunction with the team to get healthy
- He avoids the Injury Waiver in his deal. which does not void until 2028

* He should have signed his contract offer as soon as possible *

Jacas would NOT have had ANY protection against injury if he'd signed right away. What's been insinuated is that the Knee waiver was the Pats effort to get the deal done and was offered only recently. You're acting like the Pats offered the Knee Waiver from day 1 of negotiations. That's a stance you can't support.

and how do I know the contract is basically the same at the beginning as it was the day he signed it? The Rookie Pool - Its been slotted for over a year now at that level ... I don't need to tell you this - YOU already know this...

I will die on the hill thinking it is better to get your guys signed early that to let it linger into July / August...

You can die on whatever hill you want. That doesn't make your stance valid.

The simple fact that you have tried to call me out over this stance is mind boggling... It was stupid play by the rookie player/agent and it should be called out when it happens by everyone...

I've called you out on your stance because you've failed to acknowledge numerous facts. Even when you DO acknowledge them, you can't be bothered to take them into consideration. No. It's not a stupid play by a rookie to ensure that he's got protection in his contract against injury other than the one he's recovering from. It's smart business. Jacas' contract now has that protection for any other injury other than his knee.

What should happen is you should acknowledge that every player's situation is different and not equal. You should acknowledge that the differences in the situations between Jacas and Campbell make your attempt to compare them invalid.

But you are such an apologist for everything the players do...

No. I'm a realist who understands both sides. YOU are refusing to see any side but the Team's. Go back and read my posts. No where did I say it was ONLY the team's fault. I posted counters to you claiming it was ONLY Jacas' fault. If you read my posts, I've said numerous times that there is a lot of information we don't know. I've said that to put blame on any one party is erroneous at this time.

So now, Gabe Jackass can't do **** while on the NFI... Instead of perhaps being ready to go for camp by going through a proper rehab after a knee debridement, he's again sitting on his ass falling further behind the rookie class in terms of learning the NFL game, experiencing the speed and power at the NFL level, Working with & developing chemistry with his position group, and even falling further behind in his physical conditioning...

Go on Bruinz - Tell me I am wrong...

Putting Jacas on the ACTIVE/NFI is a formality. Nothing more. It's because he's recovering from a NON-NFL related injury and hasn't passed his conditioning run.

I'm not sure what you think the NFI list is, but you thinking that Jacas "can't do s**t" says you're misinformed. There are 3 different designations that a player can get upon entering camp: ACTIVE, ACTIVE/PUP and ACTIVE/NFI. ACTIVE means that he passed his physical and his conditioning run. ACTIVE/PUP means that he was unable to pass the Conditioning run. ACTIVE/NFI means that the Player iis unable to pass the condition run due to a NON-FOOTBALL injury. A non-football injury is any injury that didn't occur during NFL activities.

You're confusing the ACTIVE/NFI with the RESERVE/NFI. The RESERVE/NFI is an in season designations that remove players from the active roster. Those players are the ones who are limited in their activities with the team. The ACTIVE/NFI and ACTIVE/PUP are Training Camp/Pre-season designations. With those designations, players CAN participate in meetings, do strength and conditioning with the S&C coaches. Watch film with coaches. We've heard, numerous times of player "X", Player "Y" and player "Z" participating in the stretching portions before heading off with the S&C coaches because they were on the Active/PUP or Active/NFI list.

Where do you get that "Jacas didn't go through a proper rehab after the knee debridement"? Feel free to give everyone your link to that information.

If you have an article supporting the claim that Jacas didn't undergo proper rehab, share it.
If you have information that says that Jacas can't participate at all with the team (no meetings, no team building, etc). Share it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

He's a draft pick. By definition, that makes him a project. What so many people ignore is that Jacas was not a one trick pony coming out of college. He varied his Speed and Power games evenly. He studied his opponent and developed a game plan on how to set them up and beat them. I haven't seen anyone say that Jacas is going to be an ALL-PRO day one. Not even me. And I think I'm probably his biggest fan on this board.

Jacas will have his growing pains. However, when you look at his game, he rarely made the same mistake. He was constantly improving and leading his teammates to improve. He's going to have to earn his stripes just like every other rookie that walks through the doors of Foxboro.

Agree with this completely. He needs to develop, but he's a player. He's completely committed to football and he's going to get every bit out of himself in the coming years. He's not as fluid as some edge guys, but he's as nasty as they get. He will be able to play the run and get after the passer, and he will end up being a leader and a captain down the road. Great pick, well worth the trade up.

 

[patchick]

NFI seems procedural and logical for a guy who just arrived, was hurt enough to meed surgery before getting to you, and has not been fully evaluated by medical staff/trainers.

I’ll go further and say it’s the ONLY designation for a player who isn’t healthy enough to pass a physical for reasons not directly related to NFL football. Isn’t that literally the definition of the NFI list? And how players coming out of college injured are always designated?

No games, no smokescreens, no other options.

 

[captain stone]

I didn’t think that would happen. I was wrong.

Yeah I'm a little surprised by this too. Not shocked, but still...

 

[captain stone]

Why the NFI list and not PUP?

Did he have a knee procedure?

Was it non football related???

I may be overly cynical but my first thought was that putting Jacas on the NFI might be an attempt to strengthen justification for how the team treated his injury during rookie minicamp and contract negotiations.

Or perhaps they’re just being conservative and want to see him progressively add movement and agility drills to his workouts as a gradual transition to full participation.

This has gotta be in response to whichever one of those injuries/procedures the club felt was "off-book" and wasn't fully disclosed to them, or to any other team that inquired... Whether the injury occurred during last season, during prep for the draft, or during a pick-up basketball game remains unknown...

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

This has gotta be in response to whichever one of those injuries/procedures the club felt was "off-book" and wasn't fully disclosed to them, or to any other team that inquired... Whether the injury occurred during last season, during prep for the draft, or during a pick-up basketball game remains unknown...

Agree. He must have gone above and beyond to hide a knee concern even if it was a mild cleanup. Then after he got drafted went to his doctor for a procedure without checking with the team so they could use their doctors or be in the loop with the surgeon that performed the surgery.
For that they played hardball with his contract

 

[Grogan14]

Here's the timeline
- Gets drafted
- Undergoes surgery almost immediately after
- Team declines to offer the PPA - the one thing we do not know is why the team didn't offer the PPA beyond the basic fact of him getting cut on which should not be that big of a deal - I am thinking because he handles the off season rehab poorly / immaturely
- Finally signs
- Gets put on the NFI

If Jacas had signed earlier
- Gets drafted
- signs deal - gets injury protection immediately
- Team / player decision on the the course of his rehab - He can agree with it or get a second opinion as would be his right based on the standard NFL contract
- He works in conjunction with the team to get healthy
- He avoids the Injury Waiver in his deal. which does not void until 2028

* He should have signed his contract offer as soon as possible *

and how do I know the contract is basically the same at the beginning as it was the day he signed it? The Rookie Pool - Its been slotted for over a year now at that level ... I don't need to tell you this - YOU already know this...

I will die on the hill thinking it is better to get your guys signed early that to let it linger into July / August...

The simple fact that you have tried to call me out over this stance is mind boggling... It was stupid play by the rookie player/agent and it should be called out when it happens by everyone...

But you are such an apologist for everything the players do...

So now, Gabe Jackass can't do **** while on the NFI... Instead of perhaps being ready to go for camp by going through a proper rehab after a knee debridement, he's again sitting on his ass falling further behind the rookie class in terms of learning the NFL game, experiencing the speed and power at the NFL level, Working with & developing chemistry with his position group, and even falling further behind in his physical conditioning...

Go on Bruinz - Tell me I am wrong...

Regardless of what the homers on this site (you know who you are) try to pedal, this whole Jacas situation has been completely mismanaged.

 

[captain stone]

Regardless of what the homers on this site (you know who you are) try to pedal, this whole Jacas situation has been completely mismanaged.

Not sure what if anything the team could've done differently during contract negotiations; but I didn't really like the price they paid to acquire him. Not a big fan of 1st-/2nd-round trade-ups. I also wonder if they could've done a better job of having a more-complete understanding of his recent medical history...

 

[n1997y]

Not sure what if anything the team could've done differently during contract negotiations; but I didn't really like the price they paid to acquire him. Not a big fan of 1st-/2nd-round trade-ups. I also wonder if they could've done a better job of having a more-complete understanding of his recent medical history...

I think the team dumped on him because he incurred their displeasure over how it was handled. I’m blaming his agent, who seems to specialize in difficult negotiations.

 

[n1997y]

Agree. He must have gone above and beyond to hide a knee concern even if it was a mild cleanup. Then after he got drafted went to his doctor for a procedure without checking with the team so they could use their doctors or be in the loop with the surgeon that performed the surgery.
For that they played hardball with his contract

I think his agent told him to stonewall the team because he was not under contract and informing the team of details about his medical condition could be used against him in the short term contract negotiations. So the team got pissed off and it was used against in the long term contract terms. I think his agent was very short sighted. Or perhaps very mendacious, stoking controversy and conflict to make his services seem more needed.

 

[Pape]

Jacas would NOT have had ANY protection against injury if he'd signed right away. What's been insinuated is that the Knee waiver was the Pats effort to get the deal done and was offered only recently. You're acting like the Pats offered the Knee Waiver from day 1 of negotiations. That's a stance you can't support.

sure would have. more so than he has now

You can die on whatever hill you want. That doesn't make your stance valid.

does in this case

I've called you out on your stance because you've failed to acknowledge numerous facts. Even when you DO acknowledge them, you can't be bothered to take them into consideration. No. It's not a stupid play by a rookie to ensure that he's got protection in his contract against injury other than the one he's recovering from. It's smart business. Jacas' contract now has that protection for any other injury other than his knee.

i do not need to acknowledge each and every single item on a mutable list that exists only in your head. it is a simple fact that it is always better to sign your players early

What should happen is you should acknowledge that every player's situation is different and not equal. You should acknowledge that the differences in the situations between Jacas and Campbell make your attempt to compare them invalid.

what should happen is you should acknowledge is the rookie deals are basically slotted and you know what the deal is a full year in advance. you should acknowledge when a rookie does not sign, they are playing stupid games.

No. I'm a realist who understands both sides. YOU are refusing to see any side but the Team's. Go back and read my posts. No where did I say it was ONLY the team's fault. I posted counters to you claiming it was ONLY Jacas' fault. If you read my posts, I've said numerous times that there is a lot of information we don't know. I've said that to put blame on any one party is erroneous at this time.

reaiist? dude you literally are the jockstrap king around here, and are about as one sided as it gets

Putting Jacas on the ACTIVE/NFI is a formality. Nothing more. It's because he's recovering from a NON-NFL related injury and hasn't passed his conditioning run.

its a preexisting injury to his knee which has had a follow up surgery... lets not make it out like this is a run of the mill accident... had jacass signed earlier and gone through a proper rehab, he'd be on the field now... so go on and tell me its no big deal again after he misses his second week of camp

I'm not sure what you think the NFI list is, but you thinking that Jacas "can't do s**t" says you're misinformed. There are 3 different designations that a player can get upon entering camp: ACTIVE, ACTIVE/PUP and ACTIVE/NFI. ACTIVE means that he passed his physical and his conditioning run. ACTIVE/PUP means that he was unable to pass the Conditioning run. ACTIVE/NFI means that the Player iis unable to pass the condition run due to a NON-FOOTBALL injury. A non-football injury is any injury that didn't occur during NFL activities.

All of what you just said is meaningless ********... We all know why Jackass is not practicing - because he ****ed up the rehab of his knee - from a surgery he hid from the team -while he was holding out...

You're confusing the ACTIVE/NFI with the RESERVE/NFI. The RESERVE/NFI is an in season designations that remove players from the active roster. Those players are the ones who are limited in their activities with the team. The ACTIVE/NFI and ACTIVE/PUP are Training Camp/Pre-season designations. With those designations, players CAN participate in meetings, do strength and conditioning with the S&C coaches. Watch film with coaches. We've heard, numerous times of player "X", Player "Y" and player "Z" participating in the stretching portions before heading off with the S&C coaches because they were on the Active/PUP or Active/NFI list.

I am not confusing anything

Has he practiced? Will he even get to participate on camp at this point?
All of this could have been avoided,

Where do you get that "Jacas didn't go through a proper rehab after the knee debridement"? Feel free to give everyone your link to that information.

If you have an article supporting the claim that Jacas didn't undergo proper rehab, share it.
If you have information that says that Jacas can't participate at all with the team (no meetings, no team building, etc). Share it.

the debridement is minimally invasive - recovery is 6-8 weeks on a generous scale ,,, its been 12 weeks and its still not good to go?

and yet gabe jackass posts picks of him squatting 500 pounds?

something got ****ed up - care to guess what?

at this point i am starting to think we may not see gabe jacas on the field for a long time... season starts in a month or so... him starting on the PUP would not surprise me at all

 

[State]

I also wonder if they could've done a better job of having a more-complete understanding of his recent medical history...

Yep. Probably an open secret among the trainers for the Fighting Illini football team. Just saying.

 

[moosekill]

sure would have. more so than he has now

does in this case

i do not need to acknowledge each and every single item on a mutable list that exists only in your head. it is a simple fact that it is always better to sign your players early

what should happen is you should acknowledge is the rookie deals are basically slotted and you know what the deal is a full year in advance. you should acknowledge when a rookie does not sign, they are playing stupid games.

reaiist? dude you literally are the jockstrap king around here, and are about as one sided as it gets

its a preexisting injury to his knee which has had a follow up surgery... lets not make it out like this is a run of the mill accident... had jacass signed earlier and gone through a proper rehab, he'd be on the field now... so go on and tell me its no big deal again after he misses his second week of camp


All of what you just said is meaningless ********... We all know why Jackass is not practicing - because he ****ed up the rehab of his knee - from a surgery he hid from the team -while he was holding out...



I am not confusing anything

Has he practiced? Will he even get to participate on camp at this point?
All of this could have been avoided,



the debridement is minimally invasive - recovery is 6-8 weeks on a generous scale ,,, its been 12 weeks and its still not good to go?

and yet gabe jackass posts picks of him squatting 500 pounds?

something got ****ed up - care to guess what?

at this point i am starting to think we may not see gabe jacas on the field for a long time... season starts in a month or so... him starting on the PUP would not surprise me at all

You have no idea about any of this, and are completely guessing. You may be right, but very odd thing to make a stand on when you have no clue what so ever what you are talking about.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I think his agent told him to stonewall the team because he was not under contract and informing the team of details about his medical condition could be used against him in the short term contract negotiations. So the team got pissed off and it was used against in the long term contract terms. I think his agent was very short sighted. Or perhaps very mendacious, stoking controversy and conflict to make his services seem more needed.

I like your theory better

 

[rkarp1]

my issue, is that by all accounts, Jacas did have a physical at the combine, that all teams have access to
that includes the Pats
yet, the Pats traded up for him.
did the team think his knee was not an issue, and did not need a clean up? did the player disagree with the team?
I would think the contract language just signed is simply "protection", and the player will be fine and ready
seems strange that the player would not be at the facility, even if not healthy enough to be on the field.

 

[Pape]

You have no idea about any of this, and are completely guessing. You may be right, but very odd thing to make a stand on when you have no clue what so ever what you are talking about.

Guessing? I'm not playing whack-a-mole here...

Gabe Jacas has ****ed things up this year... Some people don't like it when he gets called out for it....

and you really think that "the Pats should get their players under contract asap" is a bad hill to make a stand on? Huh, Interesting... so what, you prefer a more Laissez-faire approach? Because ultimately, that what this is all about...

 

[n1997y]

Did @Ian forget what thread he’s posting in? Again? Lol.

 

[Ian]

Did @Ian forget what thread he’s posting in? Again? Lol.

LOL, yes. Was jumping back and forth between a couple of threads and had my browser split between another. Did that yesterday at one point as well.