Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[captain stone]

Most teams don’t even have decent starters, so we can’t expect to have depth.

Why not? We can afford it.

The overall quality of the NFL has been south since 2020.

Perhaps; but that doesn't excuse this front orifice from housing the Worst collection of DBs outside of the top 5 in the Entire League.

 

[Thelonious]

Thelonious Downer. Any relation to Debbie by chance?

To look back on making the Super Bowl in year one of a new coaching regime and offensive system and a post prime Stephon Diggs as WR1 as an absolute mirage is clearly underselling the solid foundation that was established.

Reports from Camp are that Maye and Brown already click. What would be a wasted opportunity is not giving Maye a serious weapon early on in his development.

The acquisition of Brown and the loss of the ever so sacred 2028 first ( that everyone apparently is convinced is going to be the final keystone) is not what's going to hold this team back.

Water Boy. Any relation to Polyanna Boy by chance?

We shall see. As for that clicking when Drake and AJ get together on the practice field, are we sure that is not merely the sound of Brown's failing knee?

Perhaps I am wrong. That'd be nice for both of us.

 

[Wozzy]

I checked. I double checked what I posted
you questioned what I posted
you were wrong, based on what I posted and you replied.
sorry

You’re still wrong after triple checking… consider that.

You sound like you could count your fingers three different times and get three different numbers.

 

[Wozzy]

lets close our eyes and pretend Williams and Tonga did not miss games

The problem immediately fixed itself with Spillane’s return.

Gibbens wasn’t good, which is why they let him walk for peanuts despite owning the right of first refusal.

 

[rkarp1]

The problem immediately fixed itself with Spillane’s return.

Gibbens wasn’t good, which is why they let him walk for peanuts despite owning the right of first refusal.

walk for peanuts?
Gibbens signed a 2 year deal for $7.5m, with $4.5m guaranteed
Muma is playing for $1.2m, with zero guaranteed

Gibbens got starters money
He wasn't getting that here

 

[Wozzy]

walk for peanuts?
Gibbens signed a 2 year deal for $7.5m, with $4.5m guaranteed
Muma is playing for $1.2m, with zero guaranteed

Gibbens got starters money
He wasn't getting that here

Gibbens got a one year contract. He wasn’t paid like a starter, especially as young as he is.

Muma was floating around looking for a home so he signed a one year “show me” contract. Muma’s contract has nothing to do with Gibbens contract. Gibbens got peanuts, Muma is applying for a full time job.

They both had a home in New England, the team let Gibbens walk for nothing. If they thought for a second he was the future behind 31 year old Spillane they would have matched the offer or bettered it, as they had the right to match any offer.

They didn’t… they went out and signed Muma after Gibbens fell flat on his face at middle LB against the Bills when Spillane got hurt. The defense gave up 168 yards rushing, a week later they gave up 171 yards rushing… the two highest rushing totals allowed all season.

So again… Gibbens stunk.

 

[rkarp1]

Gibbens got a one year contract. He wasn’t paid like a starter, especially as young as he is.

Muma was floating around looking for a home so he signed a one year “show me” contract. Muma’s contract has nothing to do with Gibbens contract. Gibbens got peanuts, Muma is applying for a full time job.

They both had a home in New England, the team let Gibbens walk for nothing. If they thought for a second he was the future behind 31 year old Spillane they would have matched the offer or bettered it, as they had the right to match any offer.

They didn’t… they went out and signed Muma after Gibbens fell flat on his face at middle LB against the Bills when Spillane got hurt. The defense gave up 168 yards rushing, a week later they gave up 171 yards rushing… the two highest rushing totals allowed all season.

So again… Gibbens stunk.

Jack Gibbens Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Jack Gibbens contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

you continue to say Gibbens stunk, but Muma could not secure snaps ahead of him
Gibbens was playing wire to wire as a back up when others injured. he was getting double digit tackles.
Muma could not get onto the field
If Gibbens stunk, how do you grade Muma?
what is worse than stunk?

 

[Wozzy]

Jack Gibbens Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Jack Gibbens contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

you continue to say Gibbens stunk, but Muma could not secure snaps ahead of him
Gibbens was playing wire to wire as a back up when others injured. he was getting double digit tackles.
Muma could not get onto the field
If Gibbens stunk, how do you grade Muma?
what is worse than stunk?

Muma didn’t join the team until the regular season was almost over. He was active for the remainder of the season playing heavy special teams into the postseason.

That is when the Patriots got a good look at him, decided to cut bait with Gibbens and keep the better player.

 

[rkarp1]

Muma didn’t join the team until the regular season was almost over. He was active for the remainder of the season playing heavy special teams into the postseason.

That is when the Patriots got a good look at him, decided to cut bait with Gibbens and keep the better player.

they didn't cut bait
they could not pay a back up that type of money.
Muma they have a free look at, and if he makes the team, he is owed peanuts, with no gurantee's

 

[Wozzy]

they didn't cut bait
they could not pay a back up that type of money.
Muma they have a free look at, and if he makes the team, he is owed peanuts, with no gurantee's

They had the most cap space in the league, or near it.

Also “the cap is crap”… isn’t that your stupid phrase, and Gibbens got peanuts. 4 million spread out over two years is nothing.

The cap is crap apparently until your favorite player leaves… then the cap is a hindrance… do you hear your own hypocrisy?

Again, the two largest rushing totals of the season in back to back weeks. Gibbens stunk.

 

[rkarp1]

They had the most cap space in the league, or near it.

Also “the cap is crap”… isn’t that your stupid phrase, and Gibbens got peanuts. 4 million spread out over two years is nothing.

The cap is crap apparently until your favorite player leaves… then the cap is a hindrance… do you hear your own hypocrisy?

Again, the two largest rushing totals of the season in back to back weeks. Gibbens stunk.

he got $7.5m with $4m guaranteed (Muma got $1m with 0 guaranteed)
the cap is crap only applies if poor roster management happens.
not signing Gibbens $7.5m to be a back up is is smart (they should have signed him to 2 years in 2025)

 

[Wozzy]

he got $7.5m with $4m guaranteed (Muma got $1m with 0 guaranteed)
the cap is crap only applies if poor roster management happens.
not signing Gibbens $7.5m to be a back up is is smart (they should have signed him to 2 years in 2025)

Comparing contracts doesn’t change anything. Gibbens makes peanuts, Muma makes less than peanuts.

If they thought Gibbens was the future behind Spillane they would have retained him. 4 million is nothing for a third LB and the future at middle LB. Spillane is entering the final year of his deal with guaranteed money.

They went younger, better, cheaper… Muma is a better prospect at ILB than Gibbens. The unknown of Muma is better than spending on the known of Gibbens… who when given the chance stunk.

 

[rkarp1]

Comparing contracts doesn’t change anything. Gibbens makes peanuts, Muma makes less than peanuts.

If they thought Gibbens was the future behind Spillane they would have retained him. 4 million is nothing for a third LB and the future at middle LB. Spillane is entering the final year of his deal with guaranteed money.

They went younger, better, cheaper… Muma is a better prospect at ILB than Gibbens. The unknown of Muma is better than spending on the known of Gibbens… who when given the chance stunk.

so you are positive Muma is making the roster?

 

[Wozzy]

so you are positive Muma is making the roster?

I am positive Muma was a better draft prospect than Gibbens, who was at best a special teamer with no good traits to play defense.

I strongly believe Muma will backup Spillane and Obiazor will backup Elliss.

 

[rkarp1]

I am positive Muma was a better draft prospect than Gibbens, who was at best a special teamer with no good traits to play defense.

I strongly believe Muma will backup Spillane and Obiazor will backup Elliss.

better draft prospect?
dance a little more, will ya?
they both have been in the league since 2022
Gibbens has been the better player, and 2 teams have signed him in free agency
Muma has been cut by 2 teams

 

[Wozzy]

better draft prospect?
dance a little more, will ya?
they both have been in the league since 2022
Gibbens has been the better player, and 2 teams have signed him in free agency
Muma has been cut by 2 teams

What’s to dance about. Muma had two stud LB’ers in front of him on the depth chart who both had a lot more money invested in them. He still became a special teams ace for Jacksonville, this directly from his coach’s mouth.

Gibbens was a guy Vrabel had in Tennessee, he gave him a shot last year to see if he had developed into something more than a jag… he hadn’t, so Vrabel moved on.

Muma is here, Gibbens is not… Gibbens stunk as a starter so there was no reason to invest more time or money into him. We’ll see what Muma provides, he’s a much better athlete than Gibbens.

 

[Rob0729]

I reserve judgement on the roster in general. If you told me this time last year that some of the most impactful players on the defense last year would be Khiyris Tonga, Craig Woodson, and K'Lavon Chaisson would have laughed at you or said wow this defense could be worse than in 2024. Let's see who steps up this year.

 

[rkarp1]

I reserve judgement on the roster in general. If you told me this time last year that some of the most impactful players on the defense last year would be Khiyris Tonga, Craig Woodson, and K'Lavon Chaisson would have laughed at you or said wow this defense could be worse than in 2024. Let's see who steps up this year.

I think if you look at some positional groups, especially on defense, you can make some safe assumptions.

Def backfield: Gonzo/Davis/Marcus/Byard/Woodson are arguably the best group in the league. There is some vet depth on board as well making this group very strong.

IDL: Barmore/Milton/Durden/Farmer/Gregory/Taylor is very deep. I like the less is more approach here. Less snaps means fresher, healthier players and better production.

DE/Edge: If Landry and Jacas are healthy, and Ponder develops, this group should be better than last years group.

 

[Wozzy]

I think if you look at some positional groups, especially on defense, you can make some safe assumptions.

Some do it better than others…

 

[TheRainMaker]

We're seriously arguing over letting Gibbens walk? Wow!