PATRIOTS NEWS Mandatory Minicamp 6/9-11

[DoubleDeluxe]

Thanks. Very thorough. Great information. Can you check the speed in game 1 versus game 17 for 2025?

If you want to look at that, now you're bringing weather and field conditions into play.
Week 1 was a beautiful day.
Week 17 was in Buffalo Dec 28th.
On December 28, 2025, Buffalo, NY, experienced a chilly mix of winter weather as a strong storm system swept across the region. The day featured daytime highs around 27°F and lows around 22°F. Early in the day, the area experienced lingering ice from previous freezing rain, which transitioned into a messy mix of light rain and snow.

If you want to do a deep dive, let's dive deep enough to consider all factors.
Weather was definitely a factor.

 

[TheRainMaker]

How Brown will fare going into the season will be easy to determine. Like Diggs, if you see him lining up a lot in the slot and catching passes in the short middle of the field, that's a red flag. We saw that with Diggs immediately and I called it that he was cooked in September. He was nowhere near the type of player we've seen previously in Minnesota and Buffalo.

If Brown is lining up and catching passes on the outside or deep middle of the field, that's a good sign.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If you want to look at that, now you're bringing weather and field conditions into play.
Week 1 was a beautiful day.
Week 17 was in Buffalo Dec 28th.
On December 28, 2025, Buffalo, NY, experienced a chilly mix of winter weather as a strong storm system swept across the region. The day featured daytime highs around 27°F and lows around 22°F. Early in the day, the area experienced lingering ice from previous freezing rain, which transitioned into a messy mix of light rain and snow.

If you want to do a deep dive, let's dive deep enough to consider all factors.
Weather was definitely a factor.

Great point. I am not sure how to do a deep dive with all the factors. That is why people disagree because there is not complete data?

It was pointed out that the Pats dodged Ridley, Aiyuk, and Godwin. I think AJB will be better than those three, but that is not saying much.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

It’s so interesting how many Pat’s “fans” seem so negative about AJ Brown. It’s almost like they want him to fail, it’s a weird agenda they have. Kinda reminds me of Felger. There seems to be this weird subset of Pat’s Fans rooting for failure.

Skunks at a Garden Party

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Great point. I am not sure how to do a deep dive with all the factors. That is why people disagree because there is not complete data?

It was pointed out that the Pats dodged Ridley, Aiyuk, and Godwin. I think AJB will be better than those three, but that is not saying much.

None of us know for sure.
But one thing is certain, you can slice and dice stats many different ways, and bias can undoubtedly play a role in a conclusion.
I believe you are an Engineer like me (if I remember correctly), so you know experimental bias plays a role in case studies, and the same can be said for looking at sports stats.
Right now what we know for certain is our front office and coaching staff felt comfortable enough to trade a 1st plus for AJ's services, and they unquestionably had more insight than any if us.
For the record I never wanted Ridley or Aiyuk. Ridley had the one year of elite production prior to his gambling woes/suspension, but neither him nor Aiyuk have ever had the same continued excellence of AJ.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Great point. I am not sure how to do a deep dive with all the factors. That is why people disagree because there is not complete data?

It was pointed out that the Pats dodged Ridley, Aiyuk, and Godwin. I think AJB will be better than those three, but that is not saying much.

Excellent point. Nobody wants to hear that now about Brown because the trade has been completed. By the way, the 49ers are seriously desperate not wanting to get rid of Aiyuk.

I was watching a lot of Diggs last off-season on his YouTube channel and he looked really good. However, my opinion immediately changed once I saw the real games played and DB's glued to him. I was bummed to see that because I had high hopes for him. Posters were coming after me like they are coming after you about Brown.

I hope AJ goes off this season, but we will find out very quickly whether he's been dogging it or he really is slowing down. Posters will defend him no matter what, but you've already pointed out that it's unlikely he'll get better as the season goes on because of his potential knee issues.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Excellent point. Nobody wants to hear that now about Brown because the trade has been completed. By the way, the 49ers are seriously desperate not wanting to get rid of Aiyuk.

I was watching a lot of Diggs last off-season on his YouTube channel and he looked really good. However, my opinion immediately changed once I saw the real games played and DB's glued to him. I was bummed to see that because I had high hopes for him. Posters were coming after me like they are coming after you about Brown.

I hope AJ goes off this season, but we will find out very quickly whether he's been dogging it or he really is slowing down. Posters will defend him no matter what, but you've already pointed out that it's unlikely he'll get better as the season goes on because of his potential knee issues.

Great post. The posters are not really going after me, they are passionate for the Pats so they feel badly if there might be the possibility that the WR1 hope does work out. They are anxious. It is a normal emotion and reaction. I am not similarly anxious because I know that not every draft pick or trade will work out.

For exmple how successful will Campbell and Henderson be after Y3? There are discussion points pointing positively and negatively, but if anything not positive is mentioned, posters feel anxious. You see this in the "must be Felger" type of responses. Anything not positive, even facts that they feel are not positive, make them nervous. So they react instead of being thoughtful and considerate.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Excellent point. Nobody wants to hear that now about Brown because the trade has been completed. By the way, the 49ers are seriously desperate not wanting to get rid of Aiyuk.

I was watching a lot of Diggs last off-season on his YouTube channel and he looked really good. However, my opinion immediately changed once I saw the real games played and DB's glued to him. I was bummed to see that because I had high hopes for him. Posters were coming after me like they are coming after you about Brown.

I hope AJ goes off this season, but we will find out very quickly whether he's been dogging it or he really is slowing down. Posters will defend him no matter what, but you've already pointed out that it's unlikely he'll get better as the season goes on because of his potential knee issues.

The NFL season is a grind, slowing down as the season gets deep isn't something exclusive to AJ.
JSN has 9 100 yd+ games in his first 14, then none in his last 3 games and only 1 in his last 6 games.
So 8 100yd+ games in his first 11 games, and 1 in his last 6 games.
Bumps and bruises add up for everybody.
Weather gets worse for everybody.
I'm not suggesting AJ is going to cruise to a 1500 yd, injury free season, but I will at least wait until the season progresses to start making judgments on what he is or isn't

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Great post. The posters are not really going after me, they are passionate for the Pats so they feel badly if there might be the possibility that the WR1 hope does work out. They are anxious. It is a normal emotion and reaction. I am not similarly anxious because I know that not every draft pick or trade will work out.

For exmple how successful will Campbell and Henderson be after Y3? There are discussion points pointing positively and negatively, but if anything not positive is mentioned, posters feel anxious. You see this in the "must be Felger" type of responses. Anything not positive, even facts that they feel are not positive, make them nervous. So they react instead of being thoughtful and considerate.

I don't believe I've come at you once.
I try and be as objective as possible.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't believe I've come at you once.
I try and be as objective as possible.

You are great. I love your posts.

 

[jimnance]

I think it’s part and parcel of online culture. People *****; people want to be right. People would rather take a victory lap when there’s failure.

See? Told you!

I don’t get it either. They want to be right more than they want the team to win.

True. But for the life of me I will never understand that attitude.
These are highly insecure people

 

[TheRainMaker]

The NFL season is a grind, slowing down as the season gets deep isn't something exclusive to AJ.
JSN has 9 100 yd+ games in his first 14, then none in his last 3 games and only 1 in his last 6 games.
So 8 100yd+ games in his first 11 games, and 1 in his last 6 games.
Bumps and bruises add up for everybody.
Weather gets worse for everybody.
I'm not suggesting AJ is going to cruise to a 1500 yd, injury free season, but I will at least wait until the season progresses to start making judgments on what he is or isn't

JSN's production was nothing to be alarmed about as he only fell below 70 yards once during that 6 game stretch. And he went off on almost every playoff team on that schedule. His worst game was the last game against SF (week 18) with 84 yards.

Here's cause for optimism with Brown. Unlike Diggs, Brown showed up against playoff teams in 2025. He averaged about 80 yards and .5 TD's per game which includes the playoff game against SF. 3 of those 6 games he had at least 100 yard games. Only fell below 50 yards twice during that stretch.

 

[Ross12]

Kinda hoping they find a way to pay Boutte. He is saying the right things, and is young with room to grow. Brown only has 2-4 years left playing at a high level. Keep developing Boutte. Money is definitely a factor though.

 

[OldEngland]

Time will tell, but the 3 together make me wonder a bit about the Pats' medical evals.

For Jacas, Vrabel stating 'procedure' doesn't really clear up what is going on. Hamstring surgery is usually reserved for pretty serious injuries like complete tears and avulsions. Those injuries are pretty obvious, would be hard to miss on an assessment and would have dropped several rounds in the draft. The other surgery is a hamstring debridement which also has a pretty long recovery and rehab time.

I do wonder if the procedure is a knee clean up or something unrelated.

 

[OldEngland]

He's played a huge number of snaps, and has had an ACL tear before.

It doesn't look like Moses has ever had a significant injury.

I'm curious about Landry. People keep saying his knees are shot, and maybe someone can correct me, but I've only ever seen reports on his right knee. It was the right one he injured last season and the right one he tore his ACL in 2022.

Also what was the bone-on-bone source? It is interesting he never went on IR, there are no reports of offseason surgery, and everyone is pretty tight on the injury.

Advanced degenerative changes are sometimes pretty symptom free until you knock it or roll it up, then they can cause pain and take ages to settle down again, and really mess with training and high level function. You can rehab them and sometimes they settle and you can return to pretty decent function albeit maybe with explosive agility limitations. Maintaining production over a season would take a bit of luck staying injury free, and not getting a whack on it though.

He could be the surprise camp retiree, but until then I'm still hopeful he can be productive in a designated role and with veteran treatment.

 

[BobDigital]

Kinda hoping they find a way to pay Boutte. He is saying the right things, and is young with room to grow. Brown only has 2-4 years left playing at a high level. Keep developing Boutte. Money is definitely a factor though.

The problem is it is a bad idea to pay 2 #2 WRs. They paid Doubs in the hope he is their #2 to 4 years... They can get out okay in 2 though. If you pay 2 #2s it eats into so do much cash for a very modest return. Same issue with paying 2 #2 CBs. With the #1 at both positions you just find yourself paying a lot to get smoked by the really talented teams who can exploit excessive middling talent.

 

[scott99]

If you want to look at that, now you're bringing weather and field conditions into play.
Week 1 was a beautiful day.
Week 17 was in Buffalo Dec 28th.
On December 28, 2025, Buffalo, NY, experienced a chilly mix of winter weather as a strong storm system swept across the region. The day featured daytime highs around 27°F and lows around 22°F. Early in the day, the area experienced lingering ice from previous freezing rain, which transitioned into a messy mix of light rain and snow.

If you want to do a deep dive, let's dive deep enough to consider all factors.
Weather was definitely a factor.

Let’s not forget that they also changed offensive coordinators from 2024 to 2025, so the data doesn’t pick up the differences in routes run by Brown in 2024 and in 2025, maybe ran deeper routes in 2024.

 

[PlainOldEd]

For Jacas, Vrabel stating 'procedure' doesn't really clear up what is going on. Hamstring surgery is usually reserved for pretty serious injuries like complete tears and avulsions. Those injuries are pretty obvious, would be hard to miss on an assessment and would have dropped several rounds in the draft. The other surgery is a hamstring debridement which also has a pretty long recovery and rehab time.

I do wonder if the procedure is a knee clean up or something unrelated.

Could be anything.... a friggin tonsillectomy for all we know.

 

[Ross12]

The problem is it is a bad idea to pay 2 #2 WRs. They paid Doubs in the hope he is their #2 to 4 years... They can get out okay in 2 though. If you pay 2 #2s it eats into so do much cash for a very modest return. Same issue with paying 2 #2 CBs. With the #1 at both positions you just find yourself paying a lot to get smoked by the really talented teams who can exploit excessive middling talent.

Yeah, the Doubs contract makes it difficult. Assuming Hollins is gone after this year, there’s room but the money is the hold up. Of course you CAN do it but you probably end up having to pinch pennies somewhere else to make it happen.

That said, there might be some incentive culturally to rewarding guys who developed in NE and say the right things instead of always paying to bring in outside talent.

 

[Family]

Yeah, the Doubs contract makes it difficult. Assuming Hollins is gone after this year, there’s room but the money is the hold up. Of course you CAN do it but you probably end up having to pinch pennies somewhere else to make it happen.

That said, there might be some incentive culturally to rewarding guys who developed in NE and say the right things instead of always paying to bring in outside talent.

Hollins makes 4.2 million a year. That's what a #3 WR makes.

Boutte probably wants close to Doubs like 2 years 25-30 million.

If the Patriots thought Boutte was a #2, they probably could have had him for less than Doubs.

Right or wrong, the board has to accept that the team has decided Boutte is not a #2, and that's where Boutte wants to be paid.