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Where do you think the Pats will make the biggest investment on the OL?


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ctpatsfan77

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I originally posted this on reddit, but figured I'd share it here, too.

First off, let me take one thing off the table: the Patriots are not going to trade or cut Campbell. Cutting him means taking a $26M dead money hit, and even trading him would be $11M. Given they have $42M in cap space right now, that's not happening unless Campbell robs a bank or something.

Second, they have to take a holistic look at the line. The combination of Campbell/Wilson/Bradbury was good enough for the first three months of the season, but the version we got after Campbell and Wilson's injuries wasn't good enough for the top defenses that will stand in their path in the playoffs. But no matter how badly they played in the Super Bowl, Vrabel et al. can't simply assume "this is what they are and will always be."

Third, the biggest issue they face is teasing out exactly why their play declined over the last few weeks. As I see it, there are at least five factors that could have contributed here. In no particular order:

  1. The rookie wall. Most college teams have essentially three months of games + a bowl game a month later. The NFL season is four months of games + four more games over the next five weeks. Even with the games Campbell and Wilson missed, it's still a grind, especially for players playing nearly every snap. [And Campbell just turned 22 a month ago, so his body isn't even finished developing yet; Wilson will turn 23 this offseason.
  2. Their injuries. There's a difference between being a full participant in practice and being 100% healthy. As Vrabel said, almost no one is 100% by season's end, but I don't think Campbell or Wilson were at the same point they were before their injuries.
  3. The tandem. Not only were Campbell and Wilson both dealing with those two issues, but they were also playing next to each other (plus Wilson was out of position). As I noted yesterday in another thread, not all OL combos work. They couldn't put Onwenu at LG in 2021 with Wynn playing LT, for example.
  4. Technique issues. As an example, an All-Pro RT, Willie Anderson, gave his two cents on what Campbell needs to do this offseason in this post. The good news here is technique issues should be addressable. There hasn't been as much coverage of what Wilson can do, although I imagine it would be similar.
  5. Physical limitations. This has been litigated ad nauseam here, especially for Campbell.

Vrabel et al. are going to have to make a decision on how to address the line. They have finite resources ($40M in cap space, #31 as their highest draft pick) and needs that go beyond the left side of the line (e.g., improving the pass rush and the pass catching group). The FAs also look less like a "Who's Who" and more like a "Who's That?".

One possibility (which I don't think will happen) is that they basically say "Time and experience will fix everything." Those should help, but I don't think they're enough.

I also don't think they're going to go into this offseason with the expectation that Campbell will move inside, given that I don't think they ever seriously had Campbell working at G at any point in the season. It could happen, but right now they don't even have a backup LT signed for next year (Lowe is a FA).

If I had to put money on what will happen, I think they will try to move Wilson to center (or have him backup Bradbury this year and take over in 2027), and focus on the LG position. In terms of resources, I think that's where they can get the most bang for their buck: it'd give Campbell veteran help and put Wilson at his best position. Maybe Ben Brown is that guy, but there are 8 guards in the top 100 of PFF's FA rankings.
 
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BTW, @Ian . . . for some reason, the list/bullet options in the formatting menu don't seem to work anymore.
 
  • ThankU!
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  • BTW, @Ian . . . for some reason, the list/bullet options in the formatting menu don't seem to work anymore.
Odd. Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into that.
 
Posted this in the where we need to improve thread, but going to just report here because it specifically applies here:

Considering the current roster and the available player pool, I think a starting LG is the most obvious signing to make. Jared Wilson was clearly a weak link all of last year. People talk about him profiling better at center and that may well be true because there's more tandem blocking there vs. the one on ones he struggled with. Regardless, he doesn't look like a starting caliber LG right now and it's deficient enough that they should probably bring in a guy over him at least for the short term.

People also talk about moving Campbell to LG but that requires finding a new LT which, while not impossible, seems unlikely. It's hard for me to believe he isn't the LT next year, though there will deservedly be a lot of eyes on if he can handle that long term.


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I'm just looking at the available list and there are a fair amount of LGs:

Isaac Seumalo
Zion Johnson
Conor McGovern (listed as OC but has played LG before)
David Edwards
Joel Bitonio (Vrabel worked with him in CLE)
Alijah Vera-Tucker (injury risk but upside play)
Dylan Parham (drafted by McDaniels in LV and started at LG as a rookie)


Considering how much cap space we have, it feels prudent to sign at least one of them.

I'll also add that in addition to the LG I suggest signing they could still pursue Lindenbaum (or McGovern as a C). Bradbury's deal is cuttable and Ben Brown/Jared Wilson would be fine interior depth.
 
  1. test
  2. Test
  3. Test
  4. Test
Edit: I think I've got this is working now, @ctpatsfan77
 
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- Free agent C (Linderbaum or McGovern)
- David Edwards at LG (would be funny as hell to steal Buffalo's starting C and G)
- Keep Onwenu, Campbell
- Leave Moses at RT to start the year but prep a replacement after a few weeks - either Bryant or a new player
- Ben Brown & Jared Wilson become capable backup C/Gs
- With a strong IOL, Maye will have space to step up into the pocket if Campbell or Moses/Bryant get beat on the edge
- Furthermore, a strong IOL will lead to better push in the run game
 
Hard to judge because you still don't know how much the injury effected Campbell. But he looked like hot trash in the playoffs, a ****ing corner back beat him on one play.
 
  • Test 1
  • Test 2
  • Test 3
 
Obtain at least two of the best OL available, regardless of position. Our line is (Promising rookie who might be better off as a G/Up and down rookie who might be better off as a C/Stopgap/Fine/Stopgap). They went from one of the worst OLs in history last season to acceptable, which is great but they could use upgrades anywhere. If the best upgrades are at C and RG, sobeit. Improve the room and sort out fit in training camp.
 
Would be super aggressive in draft and FA to acquire multiple pieces.

OT in round 1.

Move up in round 2 for 2nd OL.

Pry Lindebaum away.

Fit WC with a cyborg knee.
 
Would be super aggressive in draft and FA to acquire multiple pieces.

OT in round 1.

Move up in round 2 for 2nd OL.

Pry Lindebaum away.

Fit WC with a cyborg knee.
You can't do that. You have to play the board that is there. The Giants have been one of the most aggressive teams of the last decade going after lineman and they still had a bad offensive line despite it. It's just hard to build a good line. If we actually did miss on Campbell, it's a huge set back.
 
Here's the thing about Jared Wilson: HE IS A CENTER! In college he never started a game at guard. His last year at Georgia he was a second team All-SEC center. At 6'3" 310 lbs he is exactly the weight and height of an NFL center, but he is too light to effectively play guard at an elite level. He played the whole year out of position and "took one for the team."

How about we let him play his natural position and see how he does?
 
- Free agent C (Linderbaum or McGovern)
- David Edwards at LG (would be funny as hell to steal Buffalo's starting C and G)
- Keep Onwenu, Campbell
- Leave Moses at RT to start the year but prep a replacement after a few weeks - either Bryant or a new player
- Ben Brown & Jared Wilson become capable backup C/Gs
- With a strong IOL, Maye will have space to step up into the pocket if Campbell or Moses/Bryant get beat on the edge
- Furthermore, a strong IOL will lead to better push in the run game
I know that’s not what people want to here but they will not canibalize their rookies.

Campbell will have another year at LT.

Bradbury was fine. Wilson has been drafted to play center not LG. He had to play LG because they couldn’t get a LG in free agency or they didn’t want to trade for one.

There is 0 chance they will sign a center. My guess is they will go after a LG in FA and They will probably draft a RT in the top 100 unless they see Marcus Bryant as the next guy
 
I would start with signing or drafting a LG. That moves wilson to c. Give Campbell one more year to see if he truly isn’t an LT or if it was the injury that held him back. Id keep lowe around for 2026 as a backup plan. Wouldnt be against upgrading wilson too at c
 
I know that’s not what people want to here but they will not canibalize their rookies.

Campbell will have another year at LT.

Bradbury was fine. Wilson has been drafted to play center not LG. He had to play LG because they couldn’t get a LG in free agency or they didn’t want to trade for one.

There is 0 chance they will sign a center. My guess is they will go after a LG in FA and They will probably draft a RT in the top 100 unless they see Marcus Bryant as the next guy
If they can get David Edwards at guard and move Wilson to C that is probably fine. I just see the two top-tier free agent centers available as too hard to ignore. But I get it. If they really believe in Wilson then they should go with him.
 
I originally posted this on reddit, but figured I'd share it here, too.

First off, let me take one thing off the table: the Patriots are not going to trade or cut Campbell. Cutting him means taking a $26M dead money hit, and even trading him would be $11M. Given they have $42M in cap space right now, that's not happening unless Campbell robs a bank or something.

Second, they have to take a holistic look at the line. The combination of Campbell/Wilson/Bradbury was good enough for the first three months of the season, but the version we got after Campbell and Wilson's injuries wasn't good enough for the top defenses that will stand in their path in the playoffs. But no matter how badly they played in the Super Bowl, Vrabel et al. can't simply assume "this is what they are and will always be."

Third, the biggest issue they face is teasing out exactly why their play declined over the last few weeks. As I see it, there are at least five factors that could have contributed here. In no particular order:

  1. The rookie wall. Most college teams have essentially three months of games + a bowl game a month later. The NFL season is four months of games + four more games over the next five weeks. Even with the games Campbell and Wilson missed, it's still a grind, especially for players playing nearly every snap. [And Campbell just turned 22 a month ago, so his body isn't even finished developing yet; Wilson will turn 23 this offseason.
  2. Their injuries. There's a difference between being a full participant in practice and being 100% healthy. As Vrabel said, almost no one is 100% by season's end, but I don't think Campbell or Wilson were at the same point they were before their injuries.
  3. The tandem. Not only were Campbell and Wilson both dealing with those two issues, but they were also playing next to each other (plus Wilson was out of position). As I noted yesterday in another thread, not all OL combos work. They couldn't put Onwenu at LG in 2021 with Wynn playing LT, for example.
  4. Technique issues. As an example, an All-Pro RT, Willie Anderson, gave his two cents on what Campbell needs to do this offseason in this post. The good news here is technique issues should be addressable. There hasn't been as much coverage of what Wilson can do, although I imagine it would be similar.
  5. Physical limitations. This has been litigated ad nauseam here, especially for Campbell.

Vrabel et al. are going to have to make a decision on how to address the line. They have finite resources ($40M in cap space, #31 as their highest draft pick) and needs that go beyond the left side of the line (e.g., improving the pass rush and the pass catching group). The FAs also look less like a "Who's Who" and more like a "Who's That?".

One possibility (which I don't think will happen) is that they basically say "Time and experience will fix everything." Those should help, but I don't think they're enough.

I also don't think they're going to go into this offseason with the expectation that Campbell will move inside, given that I don't think they ever seriously had Campbell working at G at any point in the season. It could happen, but right now they don't even have a backup LT signed for next year (Lowe is a FA).

If I had to put money on what will happen, I think they will try to move Wilson to center (or have him backup Bradbury this year and take over in 2027), and focus on the LG position. In terms of resources, I think that's where they can get the most bang for their buck: it'd give Campbell veteran help and put Wilson at his best position. Maybe Ben Brown is that guy, but there are 8 guards in the top 100 of PFF's FA rankings.
Yes, we need to have our #1 addition and expenditure of resources to be at LG.

hmm

Brown doesn't qualify.
 
I would start with signing or drafting a LG. That moves wilson to c. Give Campbell one more year to see if he truly isn’t an LT or if it was the injury that held him back. Id keep lowe around for 2026 as a backup plan. Wouldnt be against upgrading wilson too at c
We do NOT need to draft a LG in order to have 3 youngsters starting on the left side.

We need one of the top free agent LG's.
 
Here's the thing about Jared Wilson: HE IS A CENTER! In college he never started a game at guard. His last year at Georgia he was a second team All-SEC center. At 6'3" 310 lbs he is exactly the weight and height of an NFL center, but he is too light to effectively play guard at an elite level. He played the whole year out of position and "took one for the team."

How about we let him play his natural position and see how he does?
Good point
 
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