Would the Saints have been a tougher opponent for the Pats in SB LIII than the Rams?

[john4psu]

Would the New Orleans Saints have been a tougher opponent for the Patriots in SB LIII? They got robbed of a non pass interference call against the Rams and everyone missed out on a Brady-Brees Super Bowl.

 

[VrabelJr]

Yes. That Saints team was stacked.

 

[Vindicate]

Rams punched above their weight defensively that game, I remember being surprised. I know the Saints had a better ranked defense but do you expect them to have a similar defensive performance as the Rams?

 

[DiamondEye]

I'm a Saints fan who registered to this forum in hopes of our two teams meeting in the SB that year. I have lurked over the years since I have friends in the NE area and people I know who were friends and part of my family.

This is a topic I've had years to think about.

The 2018 team had a fatal flaw where the offense quit clicking in the final month of the year. They were never the same again after the TNF game at Dallas. Brees' arm strength collapsed towards the end of the year, and they went from averaging 27 points a game, down to just 14-16 in the final month. Pull up the schedule and look at the last games of the year. The Steelers game was the last time the Saints offense looked OK, and that game had some controversial calls in it that went our way that didn't go without discussion at the time.

What happened in that game vs Dallas was that they took away Kamara and MT, leaving Brees to throw to a bunch of no name guys that people don't remember. Go back to the non-call and look at who he was throwing to. Who is Tommy Lee Lewis? Once you removed Kamara and Thomas, the offense lacked another playmaker to scare opposing defenses with. In December, the Saints tried to sign Dez Bryant in desperation to have another playmaker, and he got injured in practice.

The week before the fated non-call, they struggled to put the Eagles away. The same team they dropped 40+ points on at the end of November.

It was like the offense just broke after the Dallas game and they never quite got back on their feet.

Do I think the Saints would've been a tougher opponent? Probably not. They played a lot of zone defense back then, which the Pats were great at carving up. Gronk would've had a big game against us. On the other side, taking away Kamara and Thomas would've boxed up the offense like teams were doing at the end of the year.

I wasn't confident about facing the Pats had we reached the SB. Even in the non-call game, the Saints led 10-0 and then 20-10 and still couldn't put that Rams team away. Even after the non-call, they let them drive down the field and kick a FG to force OT. We also won the coin toss in OT and threw a pick.

My gut has always told me the Pats would've won comfortably, even with a closer score. The offensive struggles the Saints had didn't bold well for this game. I think the Saints would've struggled to score 20 points and probably lost 24-13.

Good luck in this coming SB. Rooting for you!

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Much tougher imo. Plus in atl i was hearing it might have ended up like an away game for us.

We caught a break with that one, we were due for some after that insane stretch of bad luck from 2005-2013

 

[TheRainMaker]

No. Rams would’ve ran right through NO had Gurley’s knees not been fried. In fact, they would’ve made NE sweat had they played pre fried knees Gurley.

While the non PI call was terrible, there was a reason why New Orleans got eliminated 4 straight years. They continually lost playoff games because teams wiped out the overrated Michael Thomas and nobody else was able to pick up the slack because their supporting cast sucked. The also overrated Kamara didn’t do enough. Brees was not good when his first read (Thomas) got locked up. You’d see them throwing their hands up in confusion after drives kept stalling. They had no chance in 2020 when Thomas didn’t even play.

 

[NFL Mystique]

The Saints defense is not slowing down an offense which included: an elite QB, TE, OL, Edelman, and RB's that had massive holes to run through. Brady was playing at a level greater than Brees.

At best for the Saints, they lose maybe 28-20 or something.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Much tougher imo. Plus in atl i was hearing it might have ended up like an away game for us.

We caught a break with that one, we were due for some after that insane stretch of bad luck from 2005-2013

It would have been tougher. Definitely. Brees/Payton > Goff/McVay by this point. However, the Saints defense simply did not match up well with the Patriots offense at all. The Patriots have an easier match up than the Rams D.

I thought the AFC title game winner was going to win the SB. They played at a different level than everyone else by that point.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

It would have been tougher. Definitely. Brees/Payton > Goff/McVay by this point. However, the Saints defense simply did not match up well with the Patriots offense at all. The Patriots have an easier match up than the Rams D.

I thought the AFC title game winner was going to win the SB. They played at a different level than everyone else by that point.

Yeah im still thinking we win. Especially after seeing how bad Payton was last week, bb would’ve ran circles around him even back in 18.

 

[Delicate Genius]

Maroon 5, Rams 3

 

[NFL Mystique]

Yeah im still thinking we win. Especially after seeing how bad mcvay was last week, bb would’ve ran circles around him even back in 18.

Definitely. I find guys like McVay & Shanahan get caught up in their playsheets while disregarding huge aspects of football. Smart guys who sometimes don't realize offense is only one aspect of their job.

For example, McVay is so focused on passing last week that he stops the clock with under two minutes left in the half. Seattle gets the ball and scores. The Rams are now down two scores and playing catch up for the rest of the game. It cost them big time.

Shanahan wanted to win in sudden death (49ers second possession) in SB 58. So he takes the ball first instead of kicking off. He limited his team to three downs while giving KC four. He never gave second thought to the fact there is no third possession if KC scores a TD on their possession. Which is exactly what happened. Every other HC kicks off. I was stunned when he took it.

Payton--same thing. Let's say Stidham converts that first down. Well...ok. They still need like 15 yards to get a TD. There is still the possibility of a fumble or pick. Taking three is a sure thing to be up two scores.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Definitely. I find guys like McVay & Shanahan get caught up in their playsheets while disregarding huge aspects of football. Smart guys who sometimes don't realize offense is only one aspect of their job.

For example, McVay is so focused on passing last week that he stops the clock with under two minutes left in the half. Seattle gets the ball and scores. The Rams are now down two scores and playing catch up for the rest of the game. It cost them big time.

Shanahan wanted to win in sudden death (49ers second possession) in SB 58. So he takes the ball first instead of kicking off. He limited his team to three downs while giving KC four. He never gave second thought to the fact there is no third possession if KC scores a TD on their possession. Which is exactly what happened. Every other HC kicks off. I was stunned when he took it.

Sorry i had meant to say Payton in my post, now edited. Bb already did run circles around mcvay

 

[NFL Mystique]

Sorry i had meant to say Payton in my post, now edited. Bb already did run circles around mcvay

Agreed. Bill does best against these guys who overthink/get ****y.

 

[jimnance]

Agreed. Bill does best against these guys who overthink/get ****y.

Agree except that does not include McVay in the 2018 SB.
McVay was in awe of Belichick then. He was intimidated by him.
So I think McVays mindset was definitely not ****iness. It was fear. But fear will also make you overthink stuff. And he did. And he got schooled.
The Patriots were the far more physical team and the more physical team almost always wins the SB. Even after a decade + of rules changes favoring the offense. It's still true today.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Agree except that does not include McVay in the 2018 SB.
McVay was in awe of Belichick then. He was intimidated by him.
So I think McVays mindset was definitely not ****iness. It was fear. But fear will also make you overthink stuff. And he did. And he got schooled.
The Patriots were the far more physical team and the more physical team almost always wins the SB. Even after a decade + of rules changes favoring the offense. It's still true today.

McVay was definitely scared. I think he said afterwards he was taken to the cleaners by Bill. And he was. I believe he learned and was (mostly) better for it.

There was not one minute of that game where I didn't think NE would win. Even when it was 3-3. It's weird to describe.

 

[TommyD4207]

Would the New Orleans Saints have been a tougher opponent for the Patriots in SB LIII? They got robbed of a non pass interference call against the Rams and everyone missed out on a Brady-Brees Super Bowl.

I felt the same way after the Rams won that game, as I felt after Seattle won their game last week.

That Saints team was a wagon.

 

[stinkypete]

No. Rams would’ve ran right through NO had Gurley’s knees not been fried. In fact, they would’ve made NE sweat had they played pre fried knees Gurley.

I tend to agree, that was a different team when Gurley was healthy.

 

[BigPlayWC]

That Super Bowl run included a lot of luck, for which I will always be grateful. The only reason they got the 2 seed and the bye was because Houston shanked a last second field in the last or second to last game of the season, otherwise they would have had the 3rd seed and no bye. Their weakness on defense was in the run game. Melvin Gordon of the chargers was hurt and not very effective. Kareem Hunt, who was always trouble for the Pats in that Chiefs offense, was suspended, and Todd Gurley was injured. Kamara and Ingram would have been trouble for the Pats, although not necessarily the deciding factor.

 

[DiamondEye]

Agree except that does not include McVay in the 2018 SB.
McVay was in awe of Belichick then. He was intimidated by him.
So I think McVays mindset was definitely not ****iness. It was fear. But fear will also make you overthink stuff. And he did. And he got schooled.
The Patriots were the far more physical team and the more physical team almost always wins the SB. Even after a decade + of rules changes favoring the offense. It's still true today.

That was back when McVay was giving Jared Goff instructions to change the play pre-snap at the line of scrimmage.

Go back to the Bears game that year. Chicago figured out that Goff couldn't read their defenses in disguise. They shifted their coverage pre-snap with disguises 10 seconds before the ball was snapped every play. Goff was horrible in that game. The Bears showed everyone how to beat him and slow the Rams down.

The Eagles also did this same strategy against the Rams and beat them. For some reason, Dennis Allen didn't do the same when the Saints faced them in the playoffs. He ran his zone scheme that always broke down late in all these playoff losses.

In the SB, the Pats did something similar to the Bears. They were constantly moving around on defense and it confused Goff. He looked like a deer in headlights for most of the game.

 

[SVN]

Saints had the football first in OT inspite of the PI call under the old rules. Also it seemd pats were in a zone in that playoffs . I remember brady saying later that unlike SB 52 where inspite going up and down the field they never felt in control of the game, SB 53 they never felt they were going to lose the game, That team's mindset after being counted out before the playoffs was another level.