Cool Link MOST DRAMATIC MOMENT IN NFL HISTORY: Zolak's immediate reaction to Butler interception against Seahawks, in praise of Belichick, in defense of Carroll

[upstater1]

Zolak said that Carroll's decision to pass was the dumbest decision in NFL history:



What I find interesting is that Belichick called him up to tell him the Seahawks also ran it because he sent in a jumbo package and Carroll had seen it before when Hightower stoned Lynch earlier.

I very well know that everyone here is aware of the drama in the last minute when Belichick did not call a timeout. I also know you know that the Patriots had prepared for the passing play. But there's more to this story...

Carroll was discombobulated because he thought Belichick was crazy for taking the ball out of Brady's hands (Belichick did actually make a crazy decision there that could have backfired easily). Belichick's own assistant coaches wanted the ball in Brady's hands because they were clamoring for a timeout. They would have let the Seahawks score the way the Jags let the Bills score the other night. But the Bills defense is not the Legion of Boom, and Belichick was playing the odds.

Here's where I find it gets tricky. We know the Seahawks could not run the ball 3 times because there wasn't enough time on the clock. They had to pass it on either 2nd or 3rd down. Maybe Carroll thought it would catch the Patriots by surprise if he passed it on 2nd instead of 3rd. That's defensible. I defend Carroll on that thinking. In retrospect, it would have been better to pass on 3rd down.

BUT the Patriots put their jumbo package in. THAT was the time for the Seahawks to pass.

The most dramatic element in all of this was that the Patriots had guessed that the Seahawks would go to the slant passing play with the rub. It's a play that's very hard to defend.

So teams have supreme confidence when they have ultra-successful plays like that. It is the go-to play. The one that always works. The Seahawks had called that play only twice all year. They had it in their bag. It was so automatic that after Wilson threw the ball, he had no idea what happened. He came to the sideline and asked Carroll, "What happened?"

The thing is, the very best thing you can do in any given situation can be neutralized.

That right there is the drama of football. Stay humble. Because even when you're at your best, there are counters.

I always return to that final minute as the ultimate drama in football.

 

[shmessy]

Zolak said that Carroll's decision to pass was the dumbest decision in NFL history:



What I find interesting is that Belichick called him up to tell him the Seahawks also ran it because he sent in a jumbo package and Carroll had seen it before when Hightower stoned Lynch earlier.

I very well know that everyone here is aware of the drama in the last minute when Belichick did not call a timeout. I also know you know that the Patriots had prepared for the passing play. But there's more to this story...

Carroll was discombobulated because he thought Belichick was crazy for taking the ball out of Brady's hands (Belichick did actually make a crazy decision there that could have backfired easily). Belichick's own assistant coaches wanted the ball in Brady's hands because they were clamoring for a timeout. They would have let the Seahawks score the way the Jags let the Bills score the other night. But the Bills defense is not the Legion of Boom, and Belichick was playing the odds.

Here's where I find it gets tricky. We know the Seahawks could not run the ball 3 times because there wasn't enough time on the clock. They had to pass it on either 2nd or 3rd down. Maybe Carroll thought it would catch the Patriots by surprise if he passed it on 2nd instead of 3rd. That's defensible. I defend Carroll on that thinking. In retrospect, it would have been better to pass on 3rd down.

BUT the Patriots put their jumbo package in. THAT was the time for the Seahawks to pass.

The most dramatic element in all of this was that the Patriots had guessed that the Seahawks would go to the slant passing play with the rub. It's a play that's very hard to defend.

So teams have supreme confidence when they have ultra-successful plays like that. It is the go-to play. The one that always works. The Seahawks had called that play only twice all year. They had it in their bag. It was so automatic that after Wilson threw the ball, he had no idea what happened. He came to the sideline and asked Carroll, "What happened?"

The thing is, the very best thing you can do in any given situation can be neutralized.

That right there is the drama of football. Stay humble. Because even when you're at your best, there are counters.

I always return to that final minute as the ultimate drama in football.

I, and so many viewers (and Patriots coaches (Patricia and Graham in the above video from 2:30-3:32) around Belichick - were thinking timeout.

What was happening was almost mystical though - not only because of what Belichick told Zolak in that video, but also I read that in the playoffs Marshawn Lynch was 1 for 4 on goal line runs. There was SOLID reasoning in not running him and using up clock that Carroll was convinced (wrongly) BB was going to save for him with timeouts.

This was the Ultimate Game of Mental Chicken. it was almost hynotic.

From over a decade later, it stands out as surreal psychology.

.

 

[upstater1]

I, and so many viewers (and Patriots coaches (Patricia and Graham in the above video from 2:30-3:32) around Belichick - were thinking timeout.

What was happening was almost mystical though - not only because of what Belichick told Zolak in that video, but also I read that in the playoffs Marshawn Lynch was 1 for 4 on goal line runs. There was SOLID reasoning in not running him and using up clock that Carroll was convinced (wrongly) BB was going to save for him with timeouts.

This was the Ultimate Game of Mental Chicken. it was almost hynotic.

From over a decade later, it stands out as surreal psychology.

.

Yes, in retrospect I think Belichick's decision is more desperate than I supposed. Carroll's thinking is more defensible.

But again, Carroll had that game winning play in his pocket. He didn't know that Belichick had already neutralized the unstoppable play.

This is why football is a funny game. You go in with supreme confidence, and you're humbled because ANYTHING can be countered.

The only unstoppable force in football history was the 85 Bears defense.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The only unstoppable force in football history was the 85 Bears defense.

It was the combination of years of progress and the Bears correctly surmising that, like several previous NFC & thus Super Bowl champions, 1985 was their year. The Super Bowl Shuffle had plenty of substance to back it up.

And, their offense was more than satisfactory, with decent passing, a decent quarterback and most important, a solid running game. They chewed up the clock in XX, and that I believe may have made the difference no matter what the Patriots did.

That said, the Patriots coaching staff was ill-equipped to properly prepare and deal with the Bears' defense, nor were the Bears' first two playoff opponents.

However, I would not say this about the Patriots' players. I believe they were up to the task, but it would have taken a Brooks/Valvano type of head coaching job to get everyone on the same page.

In retrospect, what would I have done? Two things: Put some hot chili peppers in Raymond Berry's celebration snack the Sunday night when they touched back down in Massachusetts returning from Florida, and finding a way to give him a piece of my mind before he went to bed, including the necessity to commit to the run, start Grogan obviously continuing to have him call his own plays, tell the team the next morning to have those many veterans who lived through the robbery nine years earlier to tell the youngsters about it, and summon up the same personal intensity he had and displayed when the Colts faced all those title games.

The Bears were beatable, the rest of the league just plain sucked.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I, and so many viewers (and Patriots coaches (Patricia and Graham in the above video from 2:30-3:32) around Belichick - were thinking timeout.

What was happening was almost mystical though - not only because of what Belichick told Zolak in that video, but also I read that in the playoffs Marshawn Lynch was 1 for 4 on goal line runs. There was SOLID reasoning in not running him and using up clock that Carroll was convinced (wrongly) BB was going to save for him with timeouts.

This was the Ultimate Game of Mental Chicken. it was almost hynotic.

From over a decade later, it stands out as surreal psychology.

.

Belichick is a mad scientist, and we got six titles out of it. It does not make sense for any of us to criticize anything the guy has ever done.

We could have won more, but we would have won nothing without him.

 

[SVN]

The real mess by seattle was after the circus catch and before the 1st dow run by lynch. The replay booth for taking forever to review and when they finally ruled it a catch , the next play was a timeout to avoid a delay of game. How cna you be so unprepared? that reduced the # if timeouts to 1 .If they had two, it might have been different playcall or BB might have called timeout.

Super Bowl XLIX flashback: How clock management doomed the Seahawks

Super Bowl XLIX was decided by a goal-line interception, but what shouldn’t be forgotten is how the Seahawks mismanaged the clock on the game’s decisive drive.

www.fieldgulls.com

 

[NFL Mystique]

Butler pushing Kearse out of bounds seemed moot at the time. But it ended up being a critical play.

The Hightower tackle

If Seattle scores a TD with 20 seconds left, how much heat does Belichick take for not giving Brady enough time? It's easy to compliment him now. But things could have been much different.

Seattle had a ten point lead when Kearse dropped a pass in Patriots territory. It might have been late in the third quarter. That could have really put the game out of reach if they get a score there. From that point on, I don't think they got a first down until the miracle catch.

Everyone has discussed the throw and pros/cons. Some agree. Some don't. It will be a debate until the end of time. One thing I noticed was Hightower seemingly pushing Butler down during the pick. Maybe he was trying to be there in case Butler fumbled? In retrospect, it was kind of risky.

What would the Patriots have done if Seattle didn't jump offside at the end? They were in the endzone essentially. Maybe Brady leaps forward or they throw a dump off to someone?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

One thing I noticed was Hightower seemingly pushing Butler down during the pick. Maybe he was trying to be there in case Butler fumbled? In retrospect, it was kind of risky.

Malcolm was holding onto that thing like it was his first child.

 

[upstater1]

Belichick is a mad scientist, and we got six titles out of it. It does not make sense for any of us to criticize anything the guy has ever done.

We could have won more, but we would have won nothing without him.

It's not a criticism more than it is an acknowledgement of a gamble and risk. A bit of desperation too.

We could've won more ... but we also could've lost more.

 

[upstater1]

Butler pushing Kearse out of bounds seemed moot at the time. But it ended up being a critical play.

The Hightower tackle

If Seattle scores a TD with 20 seconds left, how much heat does Belichick take for not giving Brady enough time? It's easy to compliment him now. But things could have been much different.

Seattle had a ten point lead when Kearse dropped a pass in Patriots territory. It might have been late in the third quarter. That could have really put the game out of reach if they get a score there. From that point on, I don't think they got a first down until the miracle catch.

Everyone has discussed the throw and pros/cons. Some agree. Some don't. It will be a debate until the end of time. One thing I noticed was Hightower seemingly pushing Butler down during the pick. Maybe he was trying to be there in case Butler fumbled? In retrospect, it was kind of risky.

What would the Patriots have done if Seattle didn't jump offside at the end? They were in the endzone essentially. Maybe Brady leaps forward or they throw a dump off to someone?

Agree on the criticism Belichick would've endured.

I wouldn't have brought this up again to reignite the debate except when we debate this, we rarely talk about what it means for an offense or a defense to believe it is prepared with the right play and play design for moments like these. You just never know.

Carroll's thinking throughout this was practically flawless. He understood what Belichick was doing. He saw the jumbo package. He understood he had to throw at least one time. He knew what had happened earlier in the game. He sniffed the Patriots desperation. And he had high confidence in the execution of a play they had run 2x that year which was incredibly difficult to stop.

Every single element of Carroll's thinking was right. He was 99.9% certain of the outcome.

What he didn't know: the Patriots had prepared to counter the unstoppable play. He couldn't have known, though he might've guessed, but he still would have had the confidence to call it because it's such a good play.

This is the crazy thing about football. Sometimes it's not about what the players do, it's not about offensive design, it's not about defensive design, not about adjustments, nor is it about execution. It's about 1 minute in practice on a play. It's about preparation. And the opposing coach's desperation.

 

[italian pat patriot]

The only unstoppable force in football history was the 85 Bears defense.

No doubt
That CHI team was probably the best ever

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

I know that as Patriots fans we're all happy they decided to pass rather than run, but I've never had a problem with choosing to pass in that situation. My problem is with the play call itself. I mean, you've literally got the Super Bowl on the line, you should choose a play and Wilson should pass in a way that either your guy gets it or it goes out of bounds/is incomplete.

It was 2nd down, they had 1:01 left on the clock when the play clock started and 1 time out left. You can't risk running it 3 straight times because even with the 1 time out you could run out of time, so you're going to have to pass it at least once unless you score. Seattle was clearly trying to, correctly, make sure we didn't have any time left at the end though so that further limits your options.

Also, we know the result. If you go back in time and don't know what's about to happen the decision becomes a lot more difficult.

This is why Bill was such an incredible coach and why I admire him so much, he understood that football is all about situations, and the more you think about different ones and practice different ones the more ready you'll be when they come up.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Butler pushing Kearse out of bounds seemed moot at the time. But it ended up being a critical play.

The Hightower tackle

If Seattle scores a TD with 20 seconds left, how much heat does Belichick take for not giving Brady enough time? It's easy to compliment him now. But things could have been much different.

Seattle had a ten point lead when Kearse dropped a pass in Patriots territory. It might have been late in the third quarter. That could have really put the game out of reach if they get a score there. From that point on, I don't think they got a first down until the miracle catch.

Everyone has discussed the throw and pros/cons. Some agree. Some don't. It will be a debate until the end of time. One thing I noticed was Hightower seemingly pushing Butler down during the pick. Maybe he was trying to be there in case Butler fumbled? In retrospect, it was kind of risky.

What would the Patriots have done if Seattle didn't jump offside at the end? They were in the endzone essentially. Maybe Brady leaps forward or they throw a dump off to someone?

Probably wanted him to take a knee for a touchback instead of getting the ball at the two-inch line.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Probably wanted him to take a knee for a touchback instead of getting the ball at the two-inch line.

Good point.

 

[NFL Mystique]

I know that as Patriots fans we're all happy they decided to pass rather than run, but I've never had a problem with choosing to pass in that situation. My problem is with the play call itself. I mean, you've literally got the Super Bowl on the line, you should choose a play and Wilson should pass in a way that either your guy gets it or it goes out of bounds/is incomplete.

It was 2nd down, they had 1:01 left on the clock when the play clock started and 1 time out left. You can't risk running it 3 straight times because even with the 1 time out you could run out of time, so you're going to have to pass it at least once unless you score. Seattle was clearly trying to, correctly, make sure we didn't have any time left at the end though so that further limits your options.

Also, we know the result. If you go back in time and don't know what's about to happen the decision becomes a lot more difficult.

This is why Bill was such an incredible coach and why I admire him so much, he understood that football is all about situations, and the more you think about different ones and practice different ones the more ready you'll be when they come up.

This is how I feel too. I also think they got caught up in trying to ensure Brady did not get the ball with enough time. That might have messed with their thinking. From the Kearse catch to Butler's pick, they were completely disorganized.

Of course, we always look at the result. Because it matters most. If Seattle gets a TD and wins the game, are people still calling it a dumb play call? Probably not.

 

[upstater1]

I know that as Patriots fans we're all happy they decided to pass rather than run, but I've never had a problem with choosing to pass in that situation. My problem is with the play call itself. I mean, you've literally got the Super Bowl on the line, you should choose a play and Wilson should pass in a way that either your guy gets it or it goes out of bounds/is incomplete.

It was 2nd down, they had 1:01 left on the clock when the play clock started and 1 time out left. You can't risk running it 3 straight times because even with the 1 time out you could run out of time, so you're going to have to pass it at least once unless you score. Seattle was clearly trying to, correctly, make sure we didn't have any time left at the end though so that further limits your options.

Also, we know the result. If you go back in time and don't know what's about to happen the decision becomes a lot more difficult.

This is why Bill was such an incredible coach and why I admire him so much, he understood that football is all about situations, and the more you think about different ones and practice different ones the more ready you'll be when they come up.

That play had been highly successful until then. That's why they thought they had a failsafe. A CB would need to prepare for that specific play.

Also, there were 27 seconds left, not 1:01. This is why they couldn't run the ball 3x.

 

[upstater1]

This is how I feel too. I also think they got caught up in trying to ensure Brady did not get the ball with enough time. That might have messed with their thinking. From the Kearse catch to Butler's pick, they were completely disorganized.

Of course, we always look at the result. Because it matters most. If Seattle gets a TD and wins the game, are people still calling it a dumb play call? Probably not.

27 seconds, not 1:01. I don't think they had concern with leaving time on the clock at that point.

They were concerned with running OUT of time, which was the right thinking since it's tough to run 3 running plays within 27 seconds.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Agree on the criticism Belichick would've endured.

I wouldn't have brought this up again to reignite the debate except when we debate this, we rarely talk about what it means for an offense or a defense to believe it is prepared with the right play and play design for moments like these. You just never know.

Carroll's thinking throughout this was practically flawless. He understood what Belichick was doing. He saw the jumbo package. He understood he had to throw at least one time. He knew what had happened earlier in the game. He sniffed the Patriots desperation. And he had high confidence in the execution of a play they had run 2x that year which was incredibly difficult to stop.

Every single element of Carroll's thinking was right. He was 99.9% certain of the outcome.

What he didn't know: the Patriots had prepared to counter the unstoppable play. He couldn't have known, though he might've guessed, but he still would have had the confidence to call it because it's such a good play.

This is the crazy thing about football. Sometimes it's not about what the players do, it's not about offensive design, it's not about defensive design, not about adjustments, nor is it about execution. It's about 1 minute in practice on a play. It's about preparation. And the opposing coach's desperation.

I believe Belichick said before that games are won or lost in practice. I mean, how many other coaches would have even had his team practice that play?

In the documentary (Do your job) he mentions how he thought about taking a timeout. But things did not look right on the Seattle sideline. He did not want to let them off the hook. Sometimes you have to go with your gut instincts. It's not always x's and o's.

Overall, I think that is a game where Bill and Brady complimented one another perfectly. Bill's defense never allowed another point after Seattle went up ten. It allowed Brady enough time to engineer those two classic drives. Everyone on offense executed to perfection.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

That play had been highly successful until then. That's why they thought they had a failsafe. A CB would need to prepare for that specific play.

Also, there were 27 seconds left, not 1:01. This is why they couldn't run the ball 3x.

1:01 when the play clock started.

I believe Belichick said before that games are won or lost in practice.

Ernie Adams said that in the Do Your Job doc.

 

[upstater1]

1:01 when the play clock started.




Ernie Adams said that in the Do Your Job doc.

I understand that but that's before the fact of Belichick not calling a timeout.

Once Belichick made the decision not to call timeout, they snapped the ball with 26 seconds on the clock.

That's the hole point of this discussion. Seattle was caught off guard, and once they understood there wouldn't be enough time to run it on every down, they had to throw.